Thank you for FINALLY answering my original question. I really think I do live in a cave sometimes. I certainly don't believe the "glory days" are over. (although I do have the "mom haircut" ) I have no problem with cosmetic surgery...to a certain extent. (when your face is so tight that you can't smile normally and the booKs are by your chin, it's time to stop.) I must have just missed the memo on the bikini-thing. I certainly won't be running out to buy one....nooooo, that ship has sailed, my friend. But I understand it a little better now. Even though I still don't agree, understanding is nice.

Not to pick on you, Stripe, but why is it ok for this to be said, but I can't say that bikinis and moms don't mix? You're obviously being silly, but a Speedo-wearing grandpa might take offense. Aren't you Obviously the grandpas in Speedos like their bathing attire just fine, and if there are any on this board reading this I'm sure they'd have "their speedos in a knot" (to quote another hiver.) I have to say....I'm a little bothered by the double standard.

I'm very sorry....what more can I say. I can't force anyone to accept my apology, but I do truly regret starting this. Ok, I won't call myself conservative. Is it fair to say I view myself to be a little more modest because I choose to wear a suit that on my body provides more coverage? I am not labeling anyone else modest or immodest, but this is just an opinion of myself. For the record, another poster said that she wanted to ask "modest and conservative" moms some questions. I put myself in that category, that's why I offered. It wasn't my intention to dictate who fell into that category...I was just using her words. What more can I say? :confused: I will try to be more careful with my comments.

We use our bread machine every week to make pizza dough. It's a Breadman, and I bought it about 6 years ago. It's still works, but it's starting to show it's age. However, maybe more important than a particular brand is the shape of the bread pan. This might be obvious, but if you want normal looking loaves of bread, then you'll want to buy a breadmaker that makes a "traditional loaf." Make sure you see the bread pan. Some say "traditional loaf" and they still make tall, but not so long loaves. (If that makes sense.) With time commitment, I agree with pp. Usually just put the ingredients in the machine, and let it get to work. I would say a loaf of bread takes at least 3 hours to mix and bake in the machine. Some machines let you pre-set the time, so you can go to bed and wake up to fresh bread smells. (Although I don't do that...I'm to paranoid about the thing catching on fire!) Clean up usually isn't too hard.

I'm so sorry. I'll be praying for your family. :grouphug:

I reread my original post, and I realize it did sound quite snarky, certainly opinionated, very sarcastic and maybe even a little judgemental. Ironically, IRL I shy away from controversy (hard to believe, huh?) and the word "harsh" really caught me off guard and opened my eyes. I do take responsibility for how this thread went and if anyone's feelings were hurt then I sincerely apologize. :blushing: However, in my very humble defense please reread the title of this thread: "Moms & bikinis: (slight rant, and a little tmi)" It certainly doesn't excuse my language, but anyone could have guessed from the title that it wasn't going to be a piece advocating and supporting this latest trend. I feel that I did follow the unwritten board rules that were mentioned in a previous controversial thread and gave fair warning in the title. As I've been told (many, many times) on this thread, if you didn't like it than you could have looked somewhere else. What I should have written instead is that I'm very tired of having to hide my children's eyes and ears in places that are supposed to be family friendly. The most recent incident was at the family pool, hence the snarky, opinionated, sarcastic, and judgemental remarks. I grew up going to the pool and beach all the time and I rarely remember my mother saying that someone was wearaing an inappropriate suite (and if you think that I'M opinionated and outspoken, then you probably don't want to meet my mother!) I never in my wildest dreams thought I would have to hide my children's eyes from the sight of other mothers. I mean, we're all supposed to be on the same "team," right? Unfortunately I've had to ask my kids to turn away more and more often lately. Maybe not due the particular mothers here, but with mothers all the same. I will not apologize for my position that certain things are appropriate or inappropriate in certain places. (I shop at a military commissary, where if you walk in wearing exercise clothes or skimpy outfits they have the right to kick you out.) I can understand that certain body shapes and sizes make swimsuit shopping more difficult. Those people should be welcomed at the pool as well, and they shouldn't be mocked or ridiculed. However, if they are wearing something (such as a bikini) that will only make the difficult or voluptuous body shape MORE obvious, then I can also understand how other poolgoers might take note. I understand that everyone's interpretation of "decency" and "modesty" is different, based on culture, background, and upbringing. But there are still certain standards in certain places, and lately I've seen those standards ignored more and more lately. I know some on here feel that they have the right to wear whatever they want, whenever they want. That's fine. But, as a wise hiver allluded on this thread, if you're going to give an opinion (or make a statement by what you're wearing) you should be ready to take the heat from others who don't agree. I don't think women will ever stop looking at other women's bodies and taking notes. That's just how we are. Sometimes we do it to motivate ourselves ("Wow...look how toned she is....I need to get to the gym!") Other times we do it to make ourselves feel better about our own less-than-perfect bodies. (You know what I'm talking about here. I don't need to give examples.) So, again, I'm sorry if my remarks hurt anyone's feelings. I needed to vent, and I did it in an inappropriate way. I, too, shamelessly (usually) use this board to learn from others who do things differently than me and to get a different perspective on things. I should have asked bikini moms about their choices, rather than criticizing them. Now, if swimmermom or anyone else would like to ask anything of this conservative, modest mom, I hope maybe now you feel that you can, if not in the thread than through PM.

The biggest difference in a bikini and a tankini is that, in my opinion, a bikini is just glorified underwear--that you can (hopefully) swim in. Some people might say that about all bathingsuits made after 1940...but you have to wear something to the beach! A one piece or tankini seems to be a good middle ground. I wear a tankini that covers just as much as a one piece. I prefer it because...well....it makes going to the bathroom easier. I'm not advocating a total ban on bikinis. I used to wear one many, many years ago. This is the heart of my opposition to them for moms: I'm not calling people jezabels if they wear a bikini. They're probably not trying to ask for trouble or call more attention to themselves, although I think they probably are calling more attention to themselves whether they want to or not. Especially if the suit it ill-fitting.

I have actually done this before. I can appreciate the work that goes into looking and staying healthy, especially when it's a mom. But don't you think she'd look just at toned and fit in a one piece or tankini? I'm just sayin'...... It might sound like I'm splitting hairs, but for every toned/fit bikini wearer out there, I have personally seen countless others who aren't toned and fit but who are falling out of their swimming clothes.

Um....I was kidding. Just trying to lighten the mood. I've resigned myself to the fact that those on the "bikini side" will always think they are right and my family and I will just have to live with their freedoms. If you look at the original post, I started off saying my opinion will be in the minority. And I wrote it with a little humor and sarcasm because I knew there was nothing I would ever be able to do about it--I either keep my family locked away at home or laugh about this topic and hope nothing "pops" out while my 9yr old son is playing "Marco Polo." This issue of too tight/inappropriate clothing isn't limited to the pool, but that's just the most obvious place. I was never advocating a swimsuit law for mothers, or evil punishments dolled out by the fashion police for swimmers wearing suits (one piece or two) about 3 sizes too small. I stated my opinion, several of you stated yours' (which I knew was coming) and that's the end of that. I'm still not changing my mind, just like you're not changing yours. I think my mistake was attaching the word moral to the whole thing. If I had said "conservative" I don't think everyone would have been so upset. And I think if we weren't "wrapped in a cloak of anonymity" you and I might actually be friends. You see....we're also a Christian, military, homeschooling family. I have to go now....my kids have (gulp) swimming lessons this morning. Please know I'll be thinking of you all!:001_smile:

Thanks for the backup. That's exactly my point. The phrase "MILF" comes to mind. In my opinion, just the fact that there is such a phrase is a sad state of society.

Awww, thanks. I guess I'll see you at the pool. You'll recognize me as the crazy lady passing out x-x large t-shirts to all those "inappropriate" people. ;)

I'm sorry if I gave the impression of being "unkind," "catty," or "judgemental." This was just my opinion because I have seen this bikini-trend become more and more prevalant the last few years. And if it sounds judgemental for me to say that I don't like it, well....too bad. Why is it wrong for me to say that I find something "aesthetically offensive?" Do I have to like everything I see? Well, I'm sorry, I don't. And, in my opinion, if it were me who others thought was being aesthetically offensive, I would hope someone would tell me. I never said certain people didn't have a right to be at the pool. They have the right to wear whatever they want (obviously) and I have the right to say I don't like what their wearing. I just feel like this is another example where some people have an "anything goes" attitude and then they insult or accuse others of being old fashioned if they don't agree with them. Why is it ok for you to make fun of my values but I'm not allowed to say anything that goes against yours? I have conservative values, and this is how I raise my children. It's hard for me when others with (obvious) opposing values are flaunting it in my face at a place (like a family pool) where I should expect my children to play freely without having to avert their eyes. And I'm sorry if (as a newbie) I've inadvertantly resurrected a thread that obviously been discussed before. Next time just link me to the old thread and we can avoid rehashing all of this over again.

Ok, Bikini moms..... Is there something that you WOULD consider untasteful or inappropriate? My OP alluded to the fact that I feel like I live in a cave and seem to miss the latest trends. What is considered inappropriate to wear to the family pool these days? I was sure too-small bikinis fell in that category. Do you have older children? Do you have sons? How do they feel about your wearing a bikini? Would you ever stop wearing a bikini around them if they didn't like it? Just wondering.....

Whoa, I go to run a few errands, and honestly didn't think this thread would go down the road it has gone down! Ok, just to clear a few things up....and to maybe amend my original post: 1. My personal position is that I don't think mothers need to be in bikinis when they are with their children. This has less to do with the actual appearance of her body and more to do with the fact that moms should be kept on a pedestal (for lack of a better word.) I'm not explaining this right....but something along the lines of moms should be more wholesome than that just because they're moms. When we talk about kids these days and they don't have any values or moral grounding...well, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. How do you teach a daughter to respect her body and not use it to get attention and love when her mother is doing exactly that? How do we get a son to respect a woman's mind when his mother is flaunting her body around for all the world to see? My point is, how is this being a good role model? 2. I agree with others that a lot of this is due to cultural, Puritanical reasons. Many European countries have always been a lot more relaxed about nudity. Maybe I would feel different after living over there for a while--as in "when in Rome?" But the people I see here haven't just stepped off the boat. They don't have that cultural excuse. Their reasoning is more along the lines of "I want to wear this, and too bad for you if you don't like it." Which leads me to point #3... 3. I think that it's fair to say that some things are "appropriate" and "inappropriate" to wear to a family pool or beach. If the sign on the pool said, "Adults Only" that might be different. But children (especially prepubescent boys) shouldn't be bombarded with this sexuality when they still believe in Santa Clause. I know their innocence will be shattered soon enough (unfortunately) but it shouldn't be shattered by their best friend's mother. 4. I also think just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean that you should do it, especially in a family environment. If I was at the pool and heard another poolgoer using the f-word loud enough for my kids to hear it, I would certainly ask them to tone it down since there are kids around. I don't let my kids see PG13 movies, and lots of the bathingsuits are certainly PG13 or worse. (Ironically, walking around with big garbage bags and asking people to cover up probably would be considered inappropriate!) If a mother is wearing one of these suits, well....it kind of makes me feel like she's making my job that much harder. I shouldn't have to stop going to a family pool just because someone else wants to do whatever they want without consideration of the other patrons. 6. I have to ask why the mothers are wearing those bikinis in the first place? I agree with others that it is hard to do all your "mom jobs" (especially with toddlers) if you're constantly having to worry about keeping your parts covered. It's just not practical. Not do I think we need to wear 1880's style swim clothes. But a good one-piece or tankini usually does the job nicely. 7. I don't think modesty and having a healthy body image are exclusive of eachother. I don't buy the "healthy body image" argument, or maybe I'm misunderstanding it. Does a healthy body image mean you can wear whatever you want, even if it doesn't look good? Even in Europe (where apparently large, buxom women are proudly parading topless throughout the streets!) I'm sure it's hard to find a man who prefers that to young, taut, and perky. They are always seeking the ideal, even if it's impossible to reach. Just because young, European boys see stretch marks and saggy BooKs at the beach doesn't mean that they aren't surprised as adults by the effects motherhood has on their wives. Any mom can have a healthy body image and still concede that there are some things she shouldn't wear because it just doesn't look good on her. 7. I do think there is a time for everything. I stand firm in my (unpopular) opinion that (tasteful) bikinis should be a pre-mom accessory. I grew up in Florida and wore a bikini myself before the kids, and I looked good and had a great time in it. I was also much younger and maybe didn't mind the kind of attention it brought. Nowadays, I only need or want those looks or attention from my husband, so I find no need to walk around half naked in public. I wrote my original post with a little humor and sarcasm and I didn't think it would get so heated. This may just have to be (another) topic where we have to agree to disagree.

Oh, don't say that! I LOVE the beach and pool. I'm morally opposed to children seeing too much of their mother's skin. IMO, there are some things I don't want to know or see. You know mom has those parts....I just don't want to have them right in my face. It's the same way I feel when I think of mom and dad....um.... being affectionate. Yuck! In my (probably very prude) mind that kind of thing never happened and my sisters and I were virgin births. It doesn't bother me when I see younger, childless women at the beach if they are wearing a bathingsuit (bikini or otherwise) that is tasteful. The picture that was posted before is a great example. That woman looks terrific...but I wouldn't want to see her like that if she were my mother! This may not be a popular opinion, I just think things change when you're a mom, and walking around half-naked in public is just something that should be off limits--for the sake of the kids!

:grouphug: I'm so sorry for your loss. You are in our prayers.

:iagree:I agree, especially if they have stringy unmentionables showing. Just say no to crack.

:iagree: Although I should add that my husband went to college on a diving scholarship. Sometimes he digs up old diving videos and even that hurts my eyes. It's just not a good look for men.

Thanks for the warning. I'll keep that in mind.

Ok, what's going on with all these moms wearing bikinis? The first time the kids and I went to the pool this year I was feeling rather brave in my tankini, only to find most of the other females at the pool wearing bikinis (whether they should have been or not!) I'm certainly not overweight (4'11', 104 lbs) but momhood x 4 has done certain things to my midsection that I just don't want to share with the general public. Apparently this has happened to most of the other moms too. Don't these people have a mirror? If not, where are their husbands? I think dh would find a (very tactful) way to say it's time for a little more fabric rather than let me walk around town with all my "parts" hanging out. And, IMHO, even if they've dodged gravity, cellulite, & stretchmarks (or had them surgically removed), I don't think moms should be wearing bikinis in the first place. I have very good friends who do this--even my sister. And up until kid #3 I probably could have pulled it off without scaring small children. But I have a moral oppposition to showing my children that much of my skin. Apparently I'm very much in this minority in this opinion. Furthermore, why would a married woman want to show that much of themselves to others? Don't get me wrong--I'm not walking around in a burka (no offense to any burka-wearers who are reading this.) I don't mind looking good for my husband. I wear makeup, have my ears pierced (once), wear nice, fashionable clothes (I think.) I even wear shorts! (gasp!) I shave my legs and routinely wax other parts that need regular maintenance. (is that tmi?) I'm even considering "updating my BooKs" since the original once seem to have simultaneously lost several volumes and moved to a much lower shelf. I would do this to draw DH's attention (even though he constantly says he loves me the way I am.) But I would prefer not to draw anyone else's attention. (well, maybe the guy who broke my heart in high school....but that's another story!) ;) As for the tattoos....I really don't know what happened there. One day I and everyone else I know had pristine skin and the next day they're all showing off their "artwork." The only artwork I have is caused by a 2 year old run amuck with a marker, and that's not considered "cool." Have I really become that old? I'm only 35! I didn't think this would happen so soon. Am I the only one who feels like they've been living in a cave and missing all the memos on the latest trends? Please tell me I'm not the only one (and that maybe we can form a club.) Thanks for letting me vent.

I just made a set of chore charts for my kids. They are younger than yours, but maybe you could take a few of these ideas and use them for your teens. After all, clean is clean. This is the latest of several attempts to do chore charts. My needs with these charts were to make them flexible, but with a deadline. And I've also found the kids do their chores more willingly if they're given a few options. For example, with the weekly chores, the kids can choose when they want to do each chore, but they have to be completed by Saturday. They can do all 7 chores on Saturday, or split them up 1 chore per day. Also, they're all "competing" for the same chores. So if one kid really hates scrubbing toilets, he better finish his 7 favorite chores before his sister or he may end up on toilet duty. Because my kids are younger, I have had to break down the jobs into baby steps, but you could combine several of them into one chore. For example, for the bathroom I've listed clean mirror, clean toilet, clean tub, and wipe sink as four different jobs, but with older ones you could (probably) say "Clean Bathroom" and they'd know to do all four things. You could also include jobs that my kids are too young (or too small) to do, for example--washing dishes & loading dishwasher, doing laundry, mowing the yard, mopping floors, etc.... Finally, my cleaning standards are admittedly not very high. I may have a monthly job listed that you would need done every week. Again, this works for me, but tweak it so that it works for your family. I've typed out each of the 3 sets of chores onto a page and posted the 3 papers in an obvious place: daily jobs, weekly jobs, and monthly jobs. Daily Jobs: (obviously, done daily) Make your bed. Get Dressed Put dishes in sink after meals. Brush teeth Straighten bedroom before bed. Take turns daily: unloading dishwasher and straightening up family room Weekly Jobs: I have 3 chore-capable children, and each should do one of these jobs every day. (or 7 jobs each week) clean kids bathroom toilet clean downstairs bathroom toilet clean kids bathroom mirror clean downstairs bathroom mirror wipe kids bathroom counters/sinks/faucets wipe downstairs bathroom counters/sinks/faucets take sheets off beds (either mom & Dad’s or kids) clean kids bathtub clean downstairs bathtub empty & take out bathroom trash (MONDAY) vacuum office vacuum living/dining room vacuum family room vacuum boys room vacuum girls room vacuum playroom & upstairs hallway vacuum stairs vacuum m/d bedroom clean microwave sweep or vacuum kids bathroom sweep or vacuum downstairs bathroom Monthly Jobs : The kids need to pick two jobs to do each week. Week 1 wipe telephones wipe dishwasher wipe refrigerator wipe oven & toaster wipe kitchen cabinets on oven & refrigerator side wipe kitchen cabinets on sink side Week 2 sweep back porch sweep front porch clean kitchen windows clean family room windows clean living room/front door windows clean out fridge with mom Week 3 wipe baseboards mom/dad’s room wipe baseboards in Living & dining room wipe baseboards in all bathrooms wipe baseboards in office & Downstairs hallway wipe baseboards in family room and kitchen wipe baseboards kids rooms & playroom Week 4 clean kitchen light dust mom & dad’s room dust family room dust living room tables Hope this helps!

Those are enough details. Thank you. I've never even considered this...uh....unusual teatime for the same reason....I thought he would be uncomfortable.

Not to get off subject, but isn't that...what's the word....icky? How does your dh feel about the "ick" factor? (Obviously, he's ok with it....but did he take much convincing? Was it his idea? I need details. ) (PG13 details....;))

[ I've been trying to think of a way to say this exact thing. Thank you for putting it so eloquently. I think this is one of those things that each couple has to figure out for themselves. No one on the outside has any right to judge. It is very easy to say, "Oh, I would never tolerate my husband doing x, y, z....!" But, when push comes to shove, are you really willing to give up your marriage over it? If you think your husband would never do such a thing, you might want to think again. Unfortunately, I know from experience. Men and women have different "weaknesses" (for lack of a better word.) Most men would say they would never tolerate a wife emasculating them or belittling them in public (think Jon & Kate.) Being disrespected by their wives (in public, especially) really hits a nerve with men, just like husbands watching porn hits a nerve with women. I know they seem like apples and oranges, although they both have to do with (dis)respecting your spouse. The point is that they both hurt equally the same, and the offending gender (usually) doesn't think it's such a big deal. Each couple who deals with this situation has to muddle through the hurt, pain, and misunderstanding to find a solution that works for them. I think, as women, we truly don't understand the importance of tea-making to men and we all think, "Oh, my husband is fine with the amount of tea we have." until they discover that their dh has been drinking tea on his own with an artificial sweetener. (I'm stretching the analogy a bit!) It is not so hard for us to go without tea for a long time, but I think men often find themselves in quite a conundrum because they have to either fight this primal urge (and most likely be miserable) or find a way to take care of "the problem" knowing their wives will most likely disapprove (no matter how they quench their thirst.) Think of all the times you've said, "I have the kids and the house and people needing and touching me all day long, and I just want to go to bed....and this is just one more 'chore'." Good husbands hear that enough and often think, "Well, I don't want to nag her, so I'll just take matters into my own, er... hands." And they think they're doing you a favor! I don't like the word "submit," but as wives I think we need to be as generous as we can in this department. But, if you find yourself discovering dh in an unpleasant pastime, realize he probably started it because he found himself in between a rock and a hard place. (no pun intended) and probably thought it was the lesser of two evils (the other being bothering you.) Something that really helped me understand the different needs is the book For Women Only: What You Need to Know about the Inner Lives of Men by Shaunti Feldhahn. It's written by a Christian woman and really explains the degree to which s*x affects a man's life. (I had no idea until I read this book! It was definitely an eye opening experience. ) You can't change another person, but you can change yourself. In the more innocent cases, a change in your behavior will likely lead to a change in his.

Marine wife here = lots of moves. I do the colored sticker on the boxes. Pink = girls' room, blue = boys' room, yellow = kitchen, etc..... If you're pretty sure of the floorplan of the house (and your plan for each room), draw up little diagrams for each room for furniture placement and tape them on the doorframe. When the movers come, you don't have to be following them telling them where to put everything. Pack a first day box with absolute necessities (phone, shower curtain, toilet paper, etc...) that you'll need right away. Have the kids decorate this so that you can easily find it. For the kitchen (or any room for that matter) number your boxes as you pack them, and do the least essential items first. Usually the last things you pack are the most important things, so when you get to the new place, you'll know that box number 50 needs to be unpacked before box number 2. When you get to the new place, get your kitchen unpacked first. Once the kitchen is unpacked, I can always relax a little. Go to a local liquor store and ask if they will give you a lot of liquor boxes. (you might want to call ahead of time as they don't always give these away.) Also ask for any extra dividers they have .The boxes are great for packing up glasses as they already have the dividers in them. I've done several long distances moves with these and I don't even have wrap the glasses in paper. Usually you have to enough room in to boxes to stack two levels of cups, so cut up the cardboard from the extra dividers into little squares. Use those to cushion between the two levels of glasses. Your new neighbors might think you're a lush when they see all the liquor boxes in your house, but you'll definitely save packing time! Moves are a pain. Make a deal with dh that neither of you will file for divorce during the move (because I guarantee at some point you will want to.) ;) Good luck!