titianmom
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Posts posted by titianmom
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FWIW, I posted earlier, and in regard to homeschooling styles, I have to confess that I'm pretty structured and driven by nature. I do a mix of classical and just plain practical teaching and I expect quite a bit from my very bright 11 yo. (She has become a very accomplished typist this year, for ex. I want her typing with high proficiency by the time she's ready for college...not a part of a classical curriculum, but very practical IMHO.)
I do believe that there are a lot of kids out there that aren't expected to accomplish very much, and they live up to the low expectations. It's so sad that even their own parents don't believe in them, sometimes. Sigh.
I remember having my tweens put on a skit at church and the members of the church were shocked and amazed that they were able to memorize the entire skit and put it on without cheat sheets. It had never been done before in that church; even the adults rely on their music books after months of learning a cantata, for ex.
That said, I'm familiar with some unschooling folks that have been extremely successful with educating their kids without one day of "formal" school. The kids are doing fantastic in college and are very creative.
I don't have the details, however, on what their typical days were like. I understand, though, that the kids pick an ed topic that interests them and they run with it. The parents take them all over the country doing different things with them. (I'd love to know where the money comes from or if they're independently rich or something, ha!) I do admire their freedom and I can see how it does foster creativity. One of their boys studied boats, canoes, and eventually ended up becoming a world-class canoer and traveled to several countries. All before college age.
You can't beat that. Sigh.
So, in summary, I believe that kids are typically wired very similarly to how their parents are wired. Not always, but often. I think you have to study your child to make sure you're using the best method to education them and work toward their potential. Whether you unschool or do the structured classical like we folks do, it is still WORK to educate your kids and there are sacrifices involved to do it well.
Rgds,
Kim
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Hi,
I don't disagree that kids often have an aversion to this thing called, "work". On rare occasions you'll run across a child who just has to get things done and move on. Okay, I've met 1 child in my 46 years who was like that. Ha!
However, you might consider something that I learned from a parenting class once.
If you have to constantly stand over them to make sure they're doing their work, or if you push them to get things done and can't trust them to work on their own, you may be setting the child up for failure later on. And you always MUST think about junior or princess 10-15 years down the road whenever you work on Character development. Here's why:
Once they're away from home (college, etc) they won't have anyone to push them any more, and they will simply not do anything. This applies to moral behavior, as well. We all know of kids that were "good" growing up and once they leave home, they go wild.
What happens is, there's simply no one watching their every move or standing over them any more and they can't function without a guide telling them what they should/shouldn't do.
How to fix this? Consequences.
Don't stand over them, whatever you do. (Unless it's a consequence for not doing their work, like guards in a prison, ha!) You have a life, as well.
Tell them simply that if they don't get their work done (a reasonable amount according to their capability), then here are the consequences, and walk away. Leave them to succeed or fail. Then back up what you say! Make the consequences reasonable to the crime.
This is how real life is. For ex, you don't have a cop riding around in the car with you all the time to make sure you don't speed. But you know what the consequences are if you do speed. A ticket.
You know that you have to get to work on time consistently or you'll get fired. You don't have a boss calling you every morning to wake you up and then drive over to drive you to work. You simply know that the consequences of not getting to work on time will cost you your job.
This teaches kids that there are real consequences in life and no one is going to stand over them forever to make sure they do what they're supposed to do.
Curing laziness takes a lot of time and follow-through. Don't expect success right away; keep at it.
I tell my daughter, "Here's the work (sched) that you have to complete this week. Your time is your own. You can do it all in 2 days and get 3 days off if you want to, but understand that if the work isn't done by COB Friday, here's what will happen to you..." and I walk away. Often she gets it done, sometimes she doesn't and she pays the price. (Usually she loses something fun she likes to do, like playing computer games or watching her kid shows or the weekend is mine, etc, and she works for me.)
For guys it might be cleaning out a garage or attic, cleaning the entire house, (anything cleaning will scare 'em good...) etc. Yes, you'll have to stand over them to make sure they're cleaning it, but you'll prob only have to do it once or twice before they realize that the price is just toooo high for not getting their work done. :) You have to follow through and sacrifice yourself to cure lazyness sometimes. But usually the reason why kids get away with lazyness is because they know they can wear you down and you'll not follow through any more. It's a contest of wills ;0)
...I just happen to be more stubborn and determined than my kid. And she knows it. (Actually, I have the bluff on her, ha! I'm really a softy but I can't let her know that unless she's hurt or something.)
Hope this helps,
Kim
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Keep them coming. I might consider the Dixon book since my c is a middler.
Kim
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Hi,
I don't disagree that kids often have an aversion to this thing called, "work". On rare occasions you'll run across a child who just has to get things done and move on. Okay, I've met 1 child in my 46 years who was like that. Ha!
However, you might consider something that I learned from a parenting class once.
If you have to constantly stand over them to make sure they're doing their work, or if you push them to get things done and can't trust them to work on their own, you may be setting the child up for failure later on. Here's why:
Once they're away from home (college, etc) they won't have anyone to push them any more, and they will simply not do anything. This applies to moral behavior, as well. We all know of kids that were "good" growing up (I use it in the human sense as no one is actually good according to Scripture) and once they leave home, they go wild.
What happens is, there's simply no one watching their every move or standing over them any more and they can't function without a guide telling them what they should/shouldn't do.
How to fix this? Consequences.
Don't stand over them, whatever you do. You have a life, as well. Tell them simply that if they don't get their work done (a reasonable amount according to their capability), then here are the consequences, and walk away. Leave them to succeed or fail. Then back up what you say! Make the consequences reasonable to the crime.
This is how real life is. For ex, you don't have a cop riding around in the car with you all the time to make sure you don't speed. But you know what the consequences are if you do speed. A ticket.
You know that you have to get to work on time consistently or you'll get fired. You don't have a boss calling you every morning to wake you up and then drive over to drive you to work. You simply know that the consequences of not getting to work on time will cost you your job.
This teaches kids that there are real consequences in life and no one is going to stand over them forever to make sure they do what they're supposed to do.
Curing laziness takes a lot of time and follow-through. Don't expect success right away; keep at it.
I tell my daughter, "Here's the work (sched) that you have to complete this week. Your time is your own. You can do it all in 2 days and get 3 days off if you want to, but understand that if the work isn't done by COB Friday, here's what will happen to you..." and I walk away. Often she gets it done, sometimes she doesn't and she pays the price. (Usually she loses something fun she likes to do, like playing computer games or watching her kid shows or the weekend is mine, etc, and she works for me.)
Hope this helps,
Kim
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Hi all,
I'm interested in the subj book and was wondering if anyone has used or is using it successfully with kids (i.e., they are getting a lot out of it, for ex.)
Thanks for your input,
Kim
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I hadn't considered college entry when I winged out with this question. I also hadn't considered SAT, etc... :)
I love History. My daughter says she hates it--but I think she hates having to write papers and if she never had to write a paper, she'd prob enjoy history, LOL.
Anyway, I understand electives and I took a bunch of history electives in college on favorite topics to fill out my coursework. Naturally, my favs are now her favs only becuase they're the "fun" (er, fastinating) stuff, like Hitler and Kennedy's assassination (Sick people and conspiracy theories aren't my thing, they just make history more interesting; that's all.)
Well, it'll be up to her what she wants to do to round out her classes, I guess.
Thanks!
Kim
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Hello,
I have a quesion regarding whether the credits req for HS History/SS can be anything, including doing a year of research on a specific topic? Like WWII or US Political Party system or whatever.
Is this a nutty idea? Is it even possible? Is it something I'd have to ask my county Sch board about? Or is it even any of their business?
Thanks,
Kim
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My dd is certainly being challenged. It doesn't look that hard on the surface but apparently it is making her think. She doesn't often have to ask for help, but she does with this program. It is forcing her to really understand the meaning of words and how to use them, and reinforcing literary terms, etc. Plus it's all based on stories designed to help with character development.
Kim
because of all the recommendations I've read here. All the good reviews are true! I'm really impressed.CLE kindly sent me free samples of math (with answer key) and reading at the grade levels I requested. They arrived very quickly.
Since I decided dd will go ahead with algebra (Foerster's) I won't use the eighth grade math as a spine, but will definitely use the sample as review material and order other light units as needed. It looks very strong.
I was always VERY hesitant to use readers but the seventh grade reading workbook sample convinced me to call up and order the reader. It hasn't arrived yet, but I'm expecting good things. I like that CLE teaches literary terminology and has students think deeply and apply what they learn to other stories and poems.
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Always a possibility...
Sometimes you just have to let them know what is and isn't acceptable behavior, no?
:)
Kim
and most people may not deal with the issue the way I do.I have schooled 4 of my 6 boys so far, and they all do what your son does. It occurred to me that this could be a way for them to usurp control of the situation through emotional manipulation. Perhaps that's way over the top, but it is what I believe.
After coming to this realization, I decided to start disciplining for the crying and whining that occurs when the boys are being corrected. I do not accept any unreasonable response to the constructive correction that I do.
After a few days, their undesirable responses to correction stopped completely.
Blessings,
Camy
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We are using the math, LA, and Reading program. I give all 3 "2 thumbs up", for the following reasons:
1. Thoroughness ~ My daughter was ahead at least a grade or two in LA and she has had to do some remedial just to get ready for this program. I had heard the Spelling was weak, but frankly, I've had to add nothing else to this LA program.
She's also a very strong reader, but the Reading program is really making her think to ans the thoughtful questions that are included for each reading. Some folks alternate the 1/2 year Reading program with a novel in between the LUs and it works out really well.
The math is top-notch; they have revised it to the new Sunrise editions but only thru 8th grade. At that point I may continue on to Saxon, which I understand is also a spiral approach.
2. Cost. I only have the one child; their programs are very reasonable compared to others out there.
The History is also being revised. If you aren't focusing on a Chronological approach to History, their new Latin America studies might work for you, altho it is for a region of the world many of us don't concentrate on, perhaps. ?? But since the US is become more Latin every day, LOL., well, I'm beginning to wonder if it isn't a good idea to study this volume.
They will completely re-write their other texts for History to look/read more like the Latin American volume, so I'm thinking of picking up a copy just to check it out for future ref.
Science is supposed to be re-written in the future but I wouldn't wait for it, obviously.
My 2 cents.
Kim
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I didn't realize that. I guess I worry that if we switch, we might miss something important and I'll be too clueless to figure it out. Like say we switched in 7th grade and the books we were using didn't teach something until 7th grade, but the books we switched to had already taught it in 6th grade and assumed you knew. But I shouldn't worry about that?
I switched from MUS to CLE math this year around the grade you're refering to. MUS hadn't really touched much on Geometry, so I had to do some remedial this summer before starting the 700 level. We're doing fine with CLE and we really like it. It's spiral. We'll prob switch later to Saxon and continue with the spiral approach.
Just FYI; it is poss to switch.
Kim
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Just a thought. Maybe pointing out error and saying the "wrong!" word isn't the best approach?
Try emphasizing the number of correct with a lot of praise and saying, "Let's shoot for 100% next time!" with a smile will help a bit.
I try to let mine know that school is like a contest with yourself. You're trying to be the best YOU can be in ea subj and that error isn't the end of the world, but a chance to improve yourself.
Another way to look at it:
In a way, it's good to know where your weaknesses are so that you can work on that area. Help him to understand that none of us are perfect and that he's prefectly normal for missing a few every now and then. Grades, etc are a gauge to help us know where to concentrate the next time.
A real revelation came to me about Godly conviction. We should embrace it, not try to run from it. Conviction is the best thing we could possibly experience along with His love. It shows that He cares too much to leave us the way we are. :)
And errors in math, for ex, can be viewed the same way if we can get past the bruised pride.
Kim
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Have you used any of the state tests? How does it compare? I haven't done any testing state-wise, just assessments for curriculum needs. I've always done portfolio reviews.
Thanks again,
Kim
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Anyone use PASS for testing? Comments?
I have a budding middle schooler and I'm considering testing for the first time. She takes tests on occasion and is a very good test taker, but I want her to be exposed to the big tests mainly to get her comfortable with the concept, since the big tests are an inevitable part of school life.
Personally I'd like to see where she falls.
Found the PASS while looking at Lightning Lit.
Thanks! (Any comments on Lightning Lit is welcome, also!)
Kim
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I actually looked at AG to buy this year. The sample didn't make that clear, though. Personally, although Easy Grammar is more popular, I liked AG better, FWIW. (Not that my opinion means anything, LOL.) But I think EG has been around a lot longer. (?)
Thanks,
Kim
Actually, there is a specific process of labeling that AG uses that teaches the student to identify (by surrounding with parentheses) the prepositional phrases first. It is after he does that step that he finds the verb, subject, and other sentence parts. Then he diagrams. -
Thanks so much for the responses. I'll check them out.
Kim
You're all great!! (I live in West Virginia and it's like living on the moon sometimes.)
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Hi all,
Does anyone have any idea where you can find sheets of colored cellophane? Red and Green in particular. I can only find it in rolls on the internet.
Thanks,
Kim
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You are right in that I've gotten completely off topic. I apologize for that.
But I will never apologize for sharing God's truth with people. It's our mandate from Jesus Himself, no matter how it is received. He told the truth, and it got Him killed. There were many people who hated Him for the message He brought.
We need to quit tip-toeing around unbelievers and tell them what they're facing instead of worrying about hurting feelings. According to Scripture, it really is a matter of life and death. I did it because I care about them, not because I'm trying to terrorize people.
Do you believe in Hell? I do. I don't want anyone to go there. It was prepared for Satan and his angels, not for us. Heaven was prepared for us. But it's a choice we all have to make.
I will continue, unapologically, to try to pull as many out of the fire as I can until I can't pull anymore.
Peace,
Kim
But the more I read your responses, the more I'm convinced of the necessity of learning to use the tools of logic (and any other "thinking skills" subject out there, like rhetoric). I want to know for SURE what my premises are and how to defend them logically, without attacking other people's beliefs. But, statements about where someone will go after they die don't have anything to do with your *original topic,* and are too personal for this thread, IMO.I can totally understand the following quote by Peela: "I wish that Christians could see that when they make statements like this, which I understand are sincere and from their heart, they are however not convincing or proving anything to non-Christians." I think some Christians (including myself) need some solid training in thinking skills before we go out and talk with others about our beliefs. I wish I'd had it years ago.
EDIT: and wow, Holly's explanation makes so much sense to me! I can't wait to study logic so I can write my thoughts that clearly and concisely!
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You know, Jesus raised a dead man (Lazarus) and half the crowd nearby believed that He was the Son of God, and the other half decided, "We've got to kill this guy because he's leading everyone astray."
Your reasoning is nothing new; it has been around for a couple of thousand years.
Think about this:
If I am wrong and you are right, and Jesus isn't God, then we will both live our lives happily. I will go on believing Jesus is God and die some day, and we both end up worm meat in the end. I've lost absolutely nothing.
If I am right and you are wrong, and Jesus Christ is God and everything He said while on earth was true, we will both live our lives happily and eventually die. I go to be with God. You end up in Hell. Eternity is a very long time to spend thinking about a really grave error in judgement that you made while alive.
Either senario, I come out fine. But what about you? What about your family? The above senario is quite real and valid.
Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No One can come to the Father but by me."
Either He was a liar or He was telling the truth. You have to decide which. You can't afford, "I don't know." Because the risk is too great.
What you need to do is pray and ask God, Himself, if He's real or not. Read the entire book of John in the New Testament. Be sincere. If you really want to know, He'll show you in His own way.
You don't have to take my word for anything.
Take care,
Kim
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Well, all I can give you is my testimony.
I personally believe in God because I have a relationship with Him. So, to me, their statement is similar to saying that my husband exists.
I have never seen God, but I've experienced the reality of God. Many in my family have.
My grandfather was on his deathbed with stomach cancer. He was bloated out with tumors and the rest of him was skin and bone, doped up on morphine. The doctor told his wife to make funeral arrangements.
Many from the church stopped by to pray for him one evening, and when he awoke the next morning, his stomach was flat and he felt fine. Not even a drug reaction. He got up, dressed, and started out of the hospital.
The nurse stopped him in the hall; she couldn't believe what she saw. Made him stay long enough to do tests. They didn't even find so much as scar tissue. He was in his 50s and he lived until he was 96. He said that he'd never die of cancer. He passed away from a stroke.
Personally, I have a daughter, now, because God gave her to me. I was told I couldn't have children.
My dad should have died in a fire that he was in. 3rd degree burns over 80% of his body. My mother was told he would never live.
God stopped my grandfather while he was out driving and told him to pray for his son. He pulled over and was praying on the side of the road and the cops pulled over and asked him what he was doing. When my granpa explained that he had to get to the hospital and something had happened to his son, the police escorted him to the hospital.
Dad not only lived, but worked again and fathered 3 kids.
Is this proof enough? :) Jesus said "Believe, and you'll see the glory of God." I personally hope that some day you'll be able to read those logic statements and say, "True".
Take care,
Kim
I'm sorry but this is not an accurate statement of my views.Ones "world-view" should not be an issue in an introductory Logic course, just as there is no "[insert your world-view here]-version" of mathematics.
If someone wrote a "Logic for Atheist Children" text and the first chapter included as a true premise "God does not exist", I'd say it was as intellectually bankrupt as one that demands the converse.
Bill
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Programs like Traditional Logic however are a whole other leap up and I am not sure if we will go there again- my dd was plodding her way through TL, getting most of it correct, and getting absolutely nothing out of it, so I let her stop. I see the value in Logic study as being to be able to articulate and argue points in real life, not in the study of Logic as its own world and language unto itself.
That's my concern with taking logic courses. How much will our kids actually retain?
Sometimes the children just need to know what time it is, not how to build the watch, if you know what I mean.
If you like that sort of thing and have a good mind as far as remembering all the Latin and formulas, etc. then go for it. But I can see how a lot of kids would simply flush it all about a week after school was over.
You know what's really scary? We retained about 20% of what we learned in school. I think that's the statistic.
(I've got a button that says "43% of all statistics are worthless". I love this button. I hope you get the joke. If you don't, pm me. )
I quizzed my dd on viscosity the other day and she just stared back at me. We covered it a couple of years ago in Science while studying volcanoes. She's a bright kid about 2 years ahead of her peers--not Einstein, but just the average bright kiddo out there.
We studied Astronomy around the same time and we really got into it and bought some binos, and to this day we still go star gazing. She remembers practically all of her Astronomy and still reads over her books. She liked it and uses the knowledge.
We remember the stuff we use on a regular basis. How much of us remember our HS Algebra? (Before you went through it with your kids?) I'm honest enough to say I can spell Algebra and maybe work some of the entry-level problems, but for the most part I've forgotten it.
Sigh.
Kim
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All I see as a difference between religious and secular logic is who and what is used in the logical examples. Other than that, the subject matter itself is not, IMHO theological. Maybe we agree, but are just stating it differently.:D
Ah, I think that's it. It's the logical examples that people may have a problem with; that's the "flavor" I'm refering to.
I know that in my curriculum choice, I wanted a clear presentation. I did not mind some use of religious examples, however I wished these examples to be as "non-denominational" as possible because I had many different faiths represented in my class. I never found TL to be too controversial. There may have been a few case studies I skipped in TLII. And, I think a strict atheist would not like TL.
Ah! You teach it in a class setting. I can imagine that neutral material would be better, prob.
Thanks for such a great discussion!
Holly
Oh, I'm always opening buckets of little worms. My hubby says I over analyze everything. He's prob right.
Kim
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I also think that very pragmatic people (probably like OP) tend to equate financial security with success and *that* is "logical" to them.
..Unfortunately this "longing" is accompanied by an idealistic view of the world and other people that is often at odds with reality. (Yes, Colleen, I *So* relate to your post!) I see this with my kids, too. It has been painful to watch their disillusionment that the world really *isn't* the way Barney portrays it.
I hope that by proactively studying and explicitly teaching them logic and rhetoric they will be spared some of the heartache I have endured to get to where I am. (And, maybe they'll become really good public speakers in the process as well!)
:001_smile:
Rhonda
I don't nec equate the salary with common sense. But folks with a lot of common sense usually aren't on welfare, for ex.
I work with some folks who are in trouble a lot with life in general and it is usually a long history of very bad decision making.
Making lots of money was never my goal, just doing what the right thing, personally. Kinda "In order to support myself, I need an education. Then I need a job. Then I need to work in order to keep said job, etc. etc."
You'd be amazed at the number of people who complain because so-and-so has a nice house and car and then look at me sheepishly when I mention that so-and-so got his/her education and now have a steady job.
Of course, getting an ed isn't nec any guarantee of anything. But it does help.
I just didn't want to sponge off the parents for the rest of my life ;).
FYI, my B-In-Law wishes he picked another career because the stress is killing him in his current one.
Also, I think you'd get along with my husband quite well. :001_smile:
Kim
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I'll check it out ;0)
Again, I'm open to anything. I may love formal logic but think the informal stuff really isn't nec, for ex.
Later,
Kim
Titianmom,I'm not sure if this will be of help to you. But here's a defense for teaching logic/dialectic from a classical, Christian school in Memphis. Now you may have different goals, and that's fine, but I thought this might be a helpful defense to share. :001_smile:
Looking for a FANTASTIC grammer and writing program for a third grader.
in K-8 Curriculum Board
Posted
Have you looked at Christian Light? I've heard of the other option posted here and that's always an option, but Christian light has been just delightful for us.
It is spiral in approach and extremely thorough. My daughter has learned so much LA this year, it isn't funny, and it's just November!!!!!
I'm not kidding. She can diagram and pick out parts of speech like a pro. And there's plenty of spelling and writing exercises, IMHO.
And it isn't very expensive, similar to R&S.
You can get a light unit for about $2.90 (there are 10 for the year) and just check it out for yourself.
Kim