Renee in NC
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Posts posted by Renee in NC
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When my kids were little this topic came up and one mom told me that she was deliberate about NOT making things precisely equal for her children, because the reality is that life isn't equal or fair. She considered that she was doing them a favor by not cutting the brownies precisely or making sure the present count and dollar amount were exact. It wasn't that she played favorites because the extra would be spread around.
I really appreciated her insight, as I found it very freeing. We do always try and get each kid one item that they really want and for each to have a few things to open, but a $7 jar of Nutella would rock my son's world whereas it might take a $30 sweater for my daughter.
I agree with your Mom.
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Time for a family meeting. Divorce is a time to change old patterns and establish new routines. Most of your kids (I would leave the 7 and 4 year out of the meeting) are perfectly capable of understanding that mom cannot do everything. Put it all out on the table. Make a list of everything that needs to be done in and around the house on a weekly basis. Ask what each one of them is willing to take on as "their" job. Then come up with a schedule for rotating the other jobs you think they are capable of. The 7 year old can be assigned to "assist" and have her own small jobs as well - taking care of her room, her clothes, etc. You have a big family, you do not have to do everything. Every few months call a meeting, review the status, reassign work, change out roles for the next 3 months. Tell them this isn't about a punishment, this is about how a family works and now this family has to pull together or you cannot have the type of family/house you all deserve to have.
Good luck!
We already have the work divided up - it just isn't getting done. That is the point. Accountability takes time and energy that is in short supply.
Also, this isn't a normal divorce situation. That is why we have therapists coming in twice a week (family systems therapists.) There are significant mental health issues, an estranged husband who cannot care for himself, and some DV issues. I am overwhelmed by the enormity of the situation. I am coming to terms with the fact that I won't have any help, financial or otherwise. He is talking about leaving and moving home, which would leave me alone with 6 kids (at the same time, this would alleviate some other isseus.) I have realized as I have mulled over this post that the chores aren't the issue, but rather a symptom of the problem.
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.>>> Getting the kids TO the doctor's office would help, as it is right down from my work. Right now to go to the doc requires a 45 minute each way trip.
Just ask quietly...you never know, there may be a bus heading that way to pick up someone from a private day placement or vo-tech or a McKinney-Vento run and they could make an exception and bring a student out with them. My sons have a friend who routinely goes from school to his therapy appts via a nonroutine school bus stop arrangement...being high school the parent doesn't need to meet him, but he has to be functioning well enough to go from the bus inside to the reception area without wandering off. The bus then proceeds on with the regular stops on the route.
Where I work and where we live are totally separate places, so there is no bus between them. My county does have a public transit system, but it is not for children, and only operates in our county. Basically, I am going to have to schedule medical appts as efficiently as possible. They already don't go unless absolutely necessary (other than an annual visit to keep us "active".)
I am beginning to calm down a little. Reality is reality.
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My husband recently set up famzoo for our kids. It's been a huge success. I never thought my teenage son would actually request to have a weekly bathroom assignment, but that's exactly what happened! Before this he had never cleaned a bathroom and had no intention of ever doing so. My 7 and 10 year olds are also doing more weekly chores because of famzoo. http://famzoo.com/
That just seems...complicated. How long does it take to set up and maintain?
My 15yo wouldn't go for it. He can get work paying $8-10 an hour pretty regularly and gets paid more than that for occasional mechanics jobs ($75 minimum), so piddly amoutns for cleaning bathrooms wouldn't motivate him.
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This is an ugly reality for many people. Protective orders aren't worth the paper they are written on. Making the decision to leave or some other change in dynamic must be made with the understanding that death may occur. It is simply the reality.
I am so sorry for her surviving family.
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The problem is with their model. No one lives in a baseball stadium or performing arts center. The types of communities people in this thread are talking about are one that have dense housing, grocery stores, dry cleaners, day care, playgrounds, ballparks, etc.. As others have stated - it's a different mindset and it doesn't happen overnight. Urban planning is just that, planning. The thing is, you can't just plan, you have to execute the plan.
I would live in an area where we could walk most places and take public transport to others as long as (a) the schools were GOOD, and (b) we didn't have to live in a low income neighborhood. Been there, done that, and don't EVER plan to do it again.
I don't need a big house. I don't need my own car. I would love to live near parks, stores, museums, etc. I do need good schools, a safe area, and friendly, non-drama filled neighbors.
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I agree with doing what you can to make things easier on yourself. When I was a single, working mom (to just one though) meals were simple - pasta with a side of vegetables, chicken I could throw in the oven and nuke some veggies, and of course there's always take-out.
I know you are dealing with special needs, but would playing hard-ball help at all?
Don't allow privileges - tv, computer, whatever - until chores are done.
If things aren't cleaned up/put away they are taken away. Your son who makes a mess - can you remove the items that wind up all over the place?
I know making them do their own laundry or doing without clean clothes would work for most teenage girls going to school, would it work for any of your boys?
Simplify laundry - keep all clothes in one place. Either a central dresser/closet or even just fold each childs clothes into their own basket and that's where they get them out of. Putting away the clothes is always the hardest part of doing laundry to me. I now have my little guys put their own clothes away, even if they wind up tossed into a drawer.
:grouphug: I'm not dealing with nearly what you are, yet I feel like I can't accomplish anything once I get home from work in the evenings. I've had to seriously lower my idea of what I have the energy for.
The kids already fold and put away all their own clothes. The 12yo won't wear dirty clothes, but the 11yo and 15yo don't care. I may only spend 15 minutes a day on laundry. Dinner prep, eating, and basic cleanup takes about an hour. The 7yo's homework takes an hour to an hour and a half. I have to help the 12yo with his at times (he spends about 2 hours on his, but that is not all hands on for me.) The 11yo has to read to me (20 minutes.) I have to supervise showers, getting ready for the next day, etc. All of this adds up, and we only have roughly 2.5 hours to do it in.
They aren't allowed TV, computer, or any other "screens" during the week. If I play hard ball, it would be that they didn't get dinner until chores were done.
I know everyone keeps saying, "Lower your standards," but there is only so low you can go. There are basic things that have to be done everyday. I can't do them all myself, but it seems that getting the kids to do then takes just as much time. It came to a head this morning when my 12yo was screaming at his 15yo brother that he was tired of living in a trash hole. The 4 boys share a room, and the 15yo can't seem to handle anything clean (he WANTS the mess.)
Everyone functions better in an orderly environment. Everyone functions better with structure. Ideally, I would hire someone to be here from 3:30 untli I get home that would supervise chores and help with homework. Until I get a much better job, that won't be possible. So I have to work with what I have.
Thanks for all the input - you are helping me think through how I can make this less overwhelming.
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:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:
Would any of those close friends be able to sit down with you and help you get organized - sometimes it is really helpful to me to have someone else think through things with me and maybe help me bring the house up to a level of clean/organized that you can start from.
Then, maybe a family meeting - what are your kids willing to commit to?
Another idea: could you hire someone to come in once a week - maybe while the kids are in school on Friday and do some basic stuff for you?
:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:
So sorry you have such a tough road to walk right now!!
Anne
It is actually pretty organized - I spent Thanksgiving weekend declutering, and I only have to do the bathrooms and finish mine and the girls' room. Getting someone to come in once a week may be worth the sacrifice it would take to pay for it. It would force us to keep it straight, yet have someone handle the actual heavy cleaning. I'll definitely think on that some more, and ask around for recommendations.
I COULD use some help getting the outside done, but don't need help regularly. Just not having to look at how junky and overgrown it has gotten would help my mood quite a bit.
Yes, pulling together is the answer.
Does your school district employ a social worker? These people usually can help with the how to get to the dr/dentist issues if you can't find one open on a day you don't work. Students can take a different bus to the provider's location; elementary students can be met there by a parent while middle and high school can be dropped off. There may be community volunteers able to provide supervision also.
Most people I know that work long hours use the weekends for meal prep. All hands on board to prep and precook, then freeze/refrigerate so the actual meal goes quickly when they do arrive home.
I have talked to the a school social worker before, and I have a lot of connections at DSS. There aren't a lot of resources for things like that. Getting the kids TO the doctor's office would help, as it is right down from my work. Right now to go to the doc requires a 45 minute each way trip. I might consider switching doctors, but I'll have to think carefully. We have a great ped with whom I have a great relationship. As far as dentists, there isn't one in my closest town that takes state insurance, so we have to go to the city where I work. It is another problem that needs a solution.
I definitely plan to do some precooking tomorrow for this week.
:grouphug:
For meals, how about something like freezer crock pot meals? (this is the first example from Google--there are many others)
Piggybacking off of what Jean said, could the kids earn a token for each chore done? My kids are younger than yours, so take that into consideration :) Mine earn a bean (just a dry pinto bean) when they do a chore, which is then worth x amount of screen time or, at the end of the week, y amount of money. I could definitely understand if you don't want to use money, but could you come up with some sort of currency that works for each kid?
Could you get a load of laundry started in the morning, and have one of them switch it to the dryer, so the only thing left to do is fold? (Each of mine, yes, even the 3yo, folds and puts away their own laundry.)
I hope you can find some way to make this manageable for you. :grouphug: again.
I just need to hold them accountable - they either do it, or some consequence happens. I need to be able to come home and inspect chores, finding them done. They are all old enough to do this without the need for a system you describer. Mine do fold their own clothes, and some do their own laundry (sort of.) Laundry isn't an issue, really, other than it is one more thing to do. I have about 2.5 hours from the time I get home until the kids go to bed, so even under a great deal of efficiency it is a lot to do. I need to work on better utilizing my time from 5-6:30am and 8:30-11pm (These are times I am awake and kids aren't.)
Thanks for the ideas, everyone.
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Are any of the kids able to cook dinner?
Yes, my 11yo can do quite a bit. I think the biggest solution is going to be holding them accountable for what they are supposed to do. I have roughly 3 hours a night to get everything done, and we have to pull together.
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I've not sat still in the way you are describing since my oldest was born 11 years ago. I never, ever just sit still and hang out on the couch. There is too much to do. I work from the time I get up until I drop into bed around 11:30 every night. I do 20 load of laundry a week -- it takes a good deal of time. My day starts early-- breakfast for 4 kids, then onto school, which takes me about 5 hours each day for all 4 of them. Then off to activities if we have any. Add in daily picking up, cleaning, cooking dinner etc. there is precious little sit under a blanket time.
WOW! I don't do near that amount of laundry (I have 6 at home.) I'm gone 11 hours a day, but I'm in bed at 11 (up at 5.)
Your life does sound exhausting.
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I am sorry! Can you move closer to family for help?
The only family that could help live in a place where I could not easily find a job that could support us well. I have a *personal* support system here of good friends, but none that can offer any practical help on a regular basis.
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The only thing I can think of is maybe to reduce your expectations (of you not the kids) on your work days. If you come home and the kitchen is a mess, dinner can be peanut butter sandwiches with raw vegetables or other quick and easy stuff. Cook a couple of big dishes over the weekends and eat leftover on work days.
This is not a bad idea. I do need to simplify meal prep, but without sacrificing nutrition.
Mess stresses me out and makes things worse. Also, having therapists in the house twice a week means that it has to be reasonable. I just want basics done. If I leave it until the weekend, then we have this horrible few hours of trying to get the basics done, and then no time left for actual cleaning. I HAVE to hold the kids accountable on weekdays for the basics (which are dishes, stuff picked up, living/dining room vacuumed, pet care, and laundry.)
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Maybe this is just a vent, I don't know.
I work FT. I am gone from 7am to 6pm. Unfortunately, my kids come home to an empty house (I don't make enough at this time to pay someone to be here.) When I come home, I often have to clean the kitchen before I can cook. The kids will not do the basic chores I give them. If they did them daily, it would probably take them 30 minutes. The house is often a disaster, and every Saturday morning it ends up being a huge fight, and takes a couple of hours (and usually ends up with everyone screaming at each other, including me.)
They complain they hate having to "clean all the time." Obviously that isn't true since the house is always a mess!
I know I should hold them accountable everyday, but I am SO overwhelmed I don't have the mental energy to do it. When I come home at 6, I have to get dinner done, do laundry, help with homework, and a million other things before I fall into bed exhausted.
We have family therapists in the house at least twice a week.
Since just doing the basics takes so much time/energy, the deep cleaning doesn't get done. My yard is HORRIFIC, and even when the house is "neat" it is dirty.
My 15yo has serious issues (hence the therapists,) and he refuses to do pretty much anything. I cleaned out the boys' room (the 4 share,) and he had his side DESTROYED within a couple of days. It is dangerous on his side of the room - you cannot access the window from anywhere but his bed, and getting to his bed is almost impossible.
I am TIRED - did I mention that already? We have some serious family issues due to mental illness and the impending divorce. There are some very hard decisions to be made (with the therapists involved) which are most likely going to mean that I lose any and all help (physical - he doesn't pay child support, and only makes about $900 a month.) These are issues that have to be handled carefully because it could put me in serious danger otherwise.
I am overwhelmed trying to figure out how to be a single mother of 6 with NO help - no one else to be here when I can't, no one else to take kids to the doctor/dentist, no one else to be at home when kids are sick. I am already stressing about what I am going to do next summer.
So I guess the chores are just a symptom of the problem.
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Not at all.
I looked at our street view - you can just barely see the end of the house through the trees.
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Ayup. Durham's a whole 'nother story.
I'd "like" this post, but it would seem barbaric.
And THAT is the reason I live way out here and commute to Durham!
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I lived for five years in a moderate-sized city with extensive public transportation, and I don't recall ever once hearing about a crime being committed on a bus. Something about being in close proximity to twenty witnesses seems to discourage that. But there were plenty of stories of people driving alone being assaulted or carjacked.
Google Durham, NC bus shootings. Then again, you can be assualted and carjacked there, too! LOL
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Yeah same here. We are one of the few among my husband's coworkers who live in the icky city. Most others live much further out in the nice burbs. We just don't like driving and don't mind the icky city. Well, that, and we don't care about the schools since we homeschool. I think the schools is a huge factor for a lot of families. They are willing to drive an hour or more knowing their kid isn't going to the crap school in the city.
I should've quoted you! I cannot homeschool anymore, because I work FT to support my 6 dc at home.
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This really hasn't been my experience. It's true for some, but the bigger reason I see is people choosing the suburbs in order to get space and big lawns and a perceived sense of security. It's a choice. In my area, for the same money, you can get a house way, way out with a yard and a suburban feel or you can get a rowhouse in the city with less space in a much more urban feeling neighborhood. That's not being forced out of the city, it's a choice.
Everyone is being subsidized in different ways - here and in Europe. The US government has chosen to subsidize people living and commuting a really long way in individual vehicles. The governments in Europe have made other choices.
I rent the worst house in the best school district I could afford. I will NOT send my kids to school where my work is, and I can't afford (in any way, shape, or form) to live in the next closest town.
I don't live in a suburb so I can have a big lawn. I live in an old doublewide in the country so my kids can go to good schools.
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It's rather baffling to me that people living in the middle of nowhere wouldn't want a more fuel efficient car!
I fill up less than once a month. So that my gas mileage isn't anything to write home about (although not dreadful) it doesn't hurt that badly. But if I had to fill up weekly or more...ouch!
Why aren't people clamoring? Really, gas is not expensive enough? I find this hard to believe.
It isn't that I don't want one. I can't afford one. Sure, it may save me money over time, but I don't have the money up front to invest.
I drive a car that isn't worth $1600, much less $16K.
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We don't have them readily available here because people are not clamoring for them because gas is cheap. We are, generally speaking, ignorant and happy as clams.
I'm happy that I have a 1993 Celica to drive. LOL Even if a $16K car that gets that high of gas mileage were available, I would have to pay for it.
Either way, it will cost me more.
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Lots of Europe is rural too. Most people live in small villages, not big towns. There is a rail system that connects the small villages to bigger towns. I'd like to reiterate that I'm not advocating for doubling our gas prices. But, I do think the argument is usually using the tax money to improve our infrastructure, to include rail systems. It might hurt people in the short term, but it would change things in the long term. At least, that's how I would see things happening.
But I live 8 miles outside of a small town, so I would have to get to that town, and then into the city where I work, and then to my actual workplace.
i rode the bus everywhere when i lived in Cincinnati. I was excited when we moved to Durham, NC because there was public transport. Unfortunately, it took forever (and 3 buses) to get anywhere.
I guess I worry about the extra time having to take public transport would take. Adding an hour each direction would mean 2 more hours a day my children were home alone.
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If the price increase was for taxes to support a better transportation infrastructure so that you could take an efficient bus/train route to work, would you think it worth it?
Yes. However, I don't have a lot of expectations for any public transport out here in the middle of nowhere. There is a bus that goes to the nearest town 8 miles away, but it doesn't run late enough. Not only that, but I would have to get to the 4yo's Pre-K first, THEN get on the bus.
It takes me an hour to take the 4yo to school, and then get to work. That has me gone from 7am to 6pm already. I would hate for my commute to be any longer than that.
Chore Systems/Accountability/Seriously Overwhelmed
in The Chat Board
Posted
Several people have said that I should stop cooking during the week. I don't understand. Do people really not eat hot meals every night? I am having trouble wrapping my head around eating leftovers, sandwiches, breakfast foods, etc. every night. That is such a foreign concept to me. I have been using my crockpot and making casseroles (both of which were not allowed when he was still here.) I have simplified meal planning by setting a "theme" every night (soup, pasta, chicken, etc.) I meal plan 1/2 a month at a time. Meal prep, eating, and clean up takes about an hour.
We have a dishwasher. I am going to insist that none of us leave the table/kitchen until everything is cleaned. If we all pitch in, we can do it in 15 minutes or so.
As it is now, each child has a room that they are responsible for. The problem is that I haven't held them accountable for that. So, I will remind them to do their chores when they get home. They don't get dinner until they are done. That is simple, to the point, and doesn't take a lot of planning or thinking.
As for the messy child...I don't know yet. He just cleaned the shed out and took all of his tools and car/engine parts to the new shop he is working out of. Maybe I'll move everything but his clothes to the shed, and only leave the clothes he actually wears.
The house isn't terrible right now...just needs a quick pick up and the bathrooms cleaned. My 9yo mopped the kitchen and dining room yesterday, and most of the floors have been vacuumed.
It will be ok...I hope.