I wanted to post about the Bible lessons in CtC. I've heard some say too much Bible and others say too little. I think it's a personal preference. Each day dd does her own Bible Reading out of the Illustrated Family Bible (she loves this!). She does Bible memory from Phillipians 2 (loves this!) and then prays a guided prayer (I love how Carrie prepares kids through mentorship by being specific with prayers, ie. "pray a prayer of adoration..."). This, coupled with History, which really does have a lot of Jewish history with Judah, Israel, Canaan in the 1500-700BC time frame (but does not leave out Egyptian, Assyrian, Philistine, & Greek, etc., history) provides a depth of Biblical history that I find fascinating. Now, in terms of character study or logic/dialectical questions, those can be found in the prophecies that the kids must decipher from verses in the Old then New Testament. That has proven difficult at times for dd. She is growing into that but it's very high-level thinking for a 10 year old. I'm thinking that those who say it's too little Bible are thinking that there is a devotional study or life application piece missing. This is an easy add-on but we haven't added anything this year (I do have Wisdom with the Millers sitting on a shelf, though).

Jetta, I really appreciate your response to CTC. My dd is on week 12 and although I see fantastic academic improvements, similar to your experience, she isn't necessarily enjoying it (she did enjoy Preparing so it's not a work issue). Please share with me your schedule! I'm going to institute someone elses if possible to see what I might be doing differently. I'm still thinking that I'm pushing too hard with time allotments. In an answer to some other posts, I think CTC is a natural progression from Preparing. We did start easy because the independent requirements were a big jump up for us. I'm very thankful we've continued forward with Hod because it's truly a Biblically woven curriculum with academic rigor I wouldn't have been able to schedule or pull off solo. That said, it's no easy day:001_smile:. I do not want to discourage people from using it, just know that the jumps are significant from lower years. We started Preparing in 4th and I feel like that was a perfect fit for my dd. Ctc seems more rigorous than 5th in some aspects. But doable if you allow the time and help where needed.

Katrina, Genesis, Finding Our Roots is actually the only book we have not enjoyed in HOD. We skim through it, occasionally learn something, but don't drink it in. There is nothing wrong with it, it just seems like a guide and not very CM to me. The Guerber History used in CtC is actually an elementary text from the turn of the century, early 1900's I believe. The language was so much fuller, vibrant, expressive, and, honestly, much more academic. I doubt most high schoolers of today would understand it easily based on the vocabulary and sentence structure.

:iagree: I agree with both of these statements! It's much easier for me to combine and I would if I didn't love the upper HOD guides. I find the guides below Preparing...ummm....uninspiring...and yet I do them. What does that say about me?!?! Don't answer that. :001_huh:

I feel the same way. I don't recognize the RTR history selections and assume they are similar, if not harder, in their language. This is one of the reasons I feel like it might be prudent to slow her down and let her enjoy the year without rushing through. We have activities many afternoons and she must stay on a strict schedule to get things finished. Insert frustrations due to that rushed feeling. I might go ahead and order RTR and see. I know we'll use it next and I'd love to read a bit of the material myself. :001_smile:

We are in the midst of CtC and Beyond this year, about 1/3 of the way done. CtC is not an easy 5th grade year by any stretch but it's solid in every subject area and I just never, ever worry that it's not enough. I'm tinkering with slowing things down a bit b/c dd is working so hard through the subjects that she's losing the joy. Working so hard, I mean, in our 5.5 hours a day slot for her to accomplish her work. I really see this as a junior high level curriculum but doable for strong academic kids. We don't skip areas (except Dithor occasionally) and we DO add a secondary read-aloud (for pleasure) plus foreign language daily. It's challenging! I am very pleased with the academic side, really love the Biblical aspect, questioning the advanced difficulty of the history although dd is doing a great job of comprehension. It's laughable to think that an average PS child could comprehend, though, and I mean that objectively. It's tough. I looked back through her notebook tonight and thought, "wow, this is amazing!". So, I'm definitely pleased but understanding why some days are a struggle. Beyond is straight forward, we really have enjoyed it and we get it done. My favorite part of the day is the suggested Read-Alouds (love the selections) and the history. We did add some Apologia science because we had the time with this dd and she was begging for additional science (but, I doubt she'll remember long-term much of what she did as a 6-7 year old and I understand why heavy science is delayed in HOD!). Overall, I'm loving HOD but missing some of the picture books I read with first dd at this same age range with SL and plan to add those in...someday. :tongue_smilie: I remember the Berenstein Bears book of Nature/Science so fondly and I'm sad I don't have those scheduled in for me (I don't seem to get that which isn't scheduled accomplished despite my best efforts). I'm also toying with adding in FLL (it's hard to teach old dogs new tricks) and I'm missing that element of first-second grade from oldest dd. HOD is a fantastically organized (as in, to a T) curriculum. That's the beauty and curse of it. Maybe HOD should add a few empty (write-in) boxes for "picture books" to remind me! I'm such a box checker, aren't I?! :)

SCGS: You are exactly right...the beauty of HOD is the open-and-go. In the lower levels when they fit in the scheduled levels, it's fantastic. I didn't do HOD until later with older dd so this is a new experience. I do think the middle levels are top notch and easy to adjust. My 6 yo dd isn't necessarily interested in what we are studying (I've all ready beefed up science, now math, reading, read alouds, and was toying with starting FLL). The reason I haven't moved her forward in Singapore was to keep on 'schedule' with the guide. That sounds ridiculous to me now. I think I'm trying to fit a square child into a round box...lol. It's just so nice and easy to have a plan (I guess I need to move out of my comfort zone, hmm). Ill close the discussion with that. Perhaps the trouble I'm having with accelerating is my desire to follow a pre-planned schedule. I'll move outside of the guide and allow my dd to learn what she's begging to learn. That's the first thing I've written that actually makes sense! :)

I wasn't defending my position...just trying to educate those who might not know that children have different areas of giftedness. ;) Yes, I could stick with HOD. I have also considered that.

MssKing: I did not formally begin "schooling" her until last year. We worked through the Singapore K books last year and are completing 1a now. She knows most of her multiplication facts, understands concepts well beyond 1a but I'm struggling to move forward with her. I did a bad thing with oldest dd at her same age and truly pushed (she was gifted but I pushed). In an effort to avoid this, I've delayed :) my youngest. Now, I'm trying to figure out how to systematically accelerate. I know that there is a big jump between 1b and 2a and I just don't want to go too fast. We've been in 1a for a month now and she'll finish this week (she does it on her own). So, you see, it is certainly possible to be working below your ability when you have a mom scared to move forward. :) I should also mention that "gifted" children, depending on their area of giftedness, could certainly be working as a 6 year old at Singapore 1a. My youngest dd is definitely math gifted and can definitely work beyond where she is if I allowed her to be. :) My oldest dd was more literary gifted and tested grade 12+ for literary comprehension on the Stanford at age 6 but was slightly above grade level in math. A child gifted in every "area" is a rarity. I pushed oldest dd based on her scores and regret doing that. I suppose that's why I'm on this thread...to understand how to accelerate in math without having a push-back down the road that is not pretty.

So...when you accelerate, do you stay on normal pace with History and accelerate with math/spelling/grammar? I'm contemplating something like MOH, Apologia Science, Singapore (at her pace), FLL (any thoughts on that?), appropriate read-alouds and readers (ala HOD), what else do I need? I think, maybe, the idea of HOD is what is not going to work since it doesn't necessarily allow for acceleration. Perhaps that is what I'm struggling with... In the older levels, it's easy to "accelerate" since lessons are not planned specifically for math (and grammar has an advanced option). In the earlier levels, the basics are planned out to a T. Hmm....thinking out loud. I can relate to the "no holding back" mind set. I've got a frustrated kid on my hands now after years of trying to hold her back (and she's successfully circumnavigated my holding back with her independent reading of encyclopedias) lol. It's easier to be on a pre-set "normal" schedule and I've just been lazy. :(

I have a 6, almost 7 year old who I've held on level intentionally because she was not a mature child (happier playing than in front of a book). She is doing 1st grade (HOD Beyond, SM 1A) work but angry that she's not learning on the same level as older sis (10, doing HOD CtC, SM 5A, etc. -- smart, tested gifted, but happy where she's at while reading A LOT of extra extraneous stuff). Youngest dd has made it very clear that she wants to go to college asap. Strange...but she's very driven and wants to be a Vet asap. :001_smile: She has not been tested but the teacher-neighbor is certain of her giftedness and she learns much faster than her older "gifted" sister. She mentioned tonight that she has a goal to be in college at 14 (with older sis) and in Vet school by 18. My husband is an MD and, apparently, was equally driven (young to graduate from college, med school, etc.). Now that you know everything about me :)...how do I accelerate? Do I double up on lessons each day? I honestly don't know how to accelerate without pushing or making the days LONG. I've been homeschooling for 6 years, you'd think I would have this figured out. I just don't really know how this concept works logistically. Humor me so I can humor dd :) Do you accelerate in some areas but not others? FYI She's reading short chapter books, finds Singapore 1A very easy although she doesn't know her addition facts cold (conceptually easy), we aren't doing formal Grammar but she finds spelling words easy and rarely misses her weekly list on the first try. Her idea is to do a week of lessons each day... I think that's nuts. :confused:

Did you read the other 2 books in the series (Dragons of Blueland and Elmer's Dragon)?

SCGS, Thank you for being so honest with your comment about finding that perfect curriculum. That was so refreshing :001_smile:! I can relate a million times over. My hubby used to get so frustrated with the new curriculum boxes every few months (weeks). :D I finally gave up in tears and prayed for clarity and peace over my homeschool. It didn't happen overnight but I'm pretty close now for a recovering curriculum junkie! :001_huh: Yes, I feel blessed by HOD but not because of some miraculous daily devotion but because I'm learning about how biblical history intersects with secular. It's enlightening and powerful for me! However , I might get that from MOH or MFW just as easily. Also, scripture memory that is scheduled gets done and WOW!, it's pretty awesome when my words are being changed as i learn alongside my kids. My own character traits are being challenged but that's coming with the study of the Bible (often times through my children's curriculum). So, I guess the curriculum choice has profoundly changed my worldview and my understanding of faith, love, etc. which makes me overlook some of the subject areas that aren't my all time favorites just to get the history and Bible aspect I now desire for myself and my family. All that to say that your transparency in wanting/attempting to find that perfect curriculum like so many others have apparently found made me smile. If it's perfect then they haven't been using it long enough to find fault. :D

We've done several years of HOD and most guides (now on CTC). I can say that if you are unhappy with Preparing, you will likely not like most other HOD guides. I absolutely LOVED Preparing. I loved the history, the Bible, and the History Projects. My children love them and we are sure to take pictures and scrapbook those pictures into their notebooks (so, even if they get thrown away, we have hands-on work they've completed). I think the project you highlighted happens to be one of the "lamest" projects of that year and maybe that's dragging you down. :) I thought the history flowed in a lovely, strategic way in Preparing. I miss it, actually. :) We've done SL and MFW as well over the years and this has worked best for my family. Nothing is perfect, though. Science was... umm..."living" up until this year (but CtC has a strong, exciting apologia science program). We just read books from the library to supplement prior to this year. I agree about the one small square books, though. My kids liked them just fine but I was bored with them. It did give us opportunities for nature walks, tree hunts and flower discoveries, etc. There have been parts here and there that weren't ideal but they were okay and never bad enough to constitute a change. I get things done with HOD, and sometimes, that's what matters most. You need to find what works for you but don't forgot that you will never find a perfect curriculum (I had to come to terms with the word "BEST" in my curriculum search). lol

Crimson Wife, So THIS is where we can see the Americanization of a Singaporian math curriculum. :) At least I know it was covered 6-8 months ago in 4A...I'll go back and take a peek. I'm leaning toward the use of the U.S. book now for my younger dd (I switched only for the Standards HIG--love it!).

Common sense algebra for a 9 year old? lol I think those problems would be considered on par for a Pre-Alg course (not a 4th grader). She was able to do some deductive thinking and figure out much of the equation by using her knowledge previously taught of x or / before + or -. But there were other problems that were a little too difficult like 5/8 + n/16 = 1 (she actually did finally decide to to convert 5/8 into 10/16)... but these problems were part of a 50 problem review (of varying concepts). Not the time to throw this in. I guess I'm mostly disappointed that the curriculum writers threw them into a REVIEW and did not spend time earlier explaining this. My dd is mathy but not super confident....and this didn't help with the latter.

We did U.S. Edition until 3B, then made the switch to Standards. Today, on pg. 71, number 10 these were the problems (out of nowhere) in the Review Section: 35 - 15/ 5 = n - 3 123/ 2 = 61 + n 50 = (2 x n) x 2 5/8 + n/16 = 1 36 x 25 = n x 4 x 25 3 1/8 = 2 + n and so forth. As far as I know, this Review was the first time this type of algebraic expressions have appeared. I literally closed the book to look at the cover to make sure we were in the correct book. I have US Ed 4B on hand and this is not at all covered in the similar review. I'm questioning the placement of these problems in book 4B. Do I have more surprises to look forward to in 5A-6B? :001_huh:

Are you talking R & S English vs. CLE English? R & S doesn't have spelling at all but does have more writing than CLE. I think they are very comparable and my dd loves CLE and only tolerates R & S (we've done both).

Wonderful! Glad to hear the praises. I'd love to hear how the PSAT goes :) Michelle, do you think the review is lacking or the new content pages? Just wondering because it's easier for me to add new content work than review. I guess the Honor work has appeased those who thought MUS needed beefing up. :)

Michelle in AL: I'm reviving this thread because I'm interested in hearing what your decision was (and, if MUS, how things are going). I'm at that point where I've begun to ponder Junior High/High School Math curricula and would love to have more positive feedback about MUS. Lots of people say it's light but few (except for on the MUS website) say it's perfectly adequate for college prep. My dd is an above-average math student (mathy but doesn't adore math;)). We are currently combining Singapore with CLE and trying to figure out that next step in math for Jr. High.

We are happy with Le Francais Facile! (The Easy French). The pronunciation some dislike in Level IA (there are different speakers in different levels) but we find the layout easy and are really enjoying it at our home.

Thanks, Ladies. I have considered Saxon but, honestly, it doesn't appeal to me visually. I'll have to look at it more seriously now. To the poster who is considering adding Singapore to CLE...I am so impressed with the mental work and understanding my dd has because she has been "brought up" with Singapore but she really doesn't have the foundational arithmetic down (hence the addition of CLE). I'm doing a combination of CLE and Singapore now with my 1st grader. It does get harder to get both done as the work load increases but it's easy at that level. I'm one of those who believes Singapore is just too light in review and getting the facts down. We have spent many an hour supplementing Singapore and I just got tired of always trying to devise a new review page or game for basic facts. CLE is exactly what we needed here.

I have used Singapore with 10 y.o. dd through 4B and this year decided we needed a well-rounded math review. DD tested into CLE 5 Math and we are now in 502 and really enjoying it (and finishing 4B simultaneously). DD has *greatly* improved in long division and triple number multiplication (as well as measurements) since we started and is really loving the addition of CLE. I'm contemplating a full out switch to CLE Math (with a weekly Singapore word problem page as supplement). My concern is what do we do after CLE Math 7 or 8? I had planned to move into Singapore's new Discovering Math series after we finished 6B but now my paradigm has shifted and I'm not so confident in the solo-Singapore world. What have CLE users moved into for HS? Do you feel CLE prepared your children well for College prep HS math? So far, the only HS math that I have researched are Math U See and Singapore's DM. Thank you.

Alilac, You single handedly encouraged me to join the WTM forums after years of faithful reading. :001_smile: We are doing HOD CtC this year and let me encourage you for a moment. Doing 5-6 hours of school work a day for a 10-11 year old, I believe, is right on target. We start school by 8 am and finish around 1:30 pm with a quick lunch break at 11:30. Now, that does include Foreign Language at my house; and, we double up on math (we do CLE btw) so we should be pretty close to your time frame. I think you'll find it very helpful to start much earlier in the day when attitudes and minds are fresh and develop a habit of early working times. Also, if you give your child a written schedule with expectations to stay on task and perhaps reward him/her after a week of good work-ethic, you'll find the work times can be greatly reduced. The other piece of your email included the repetition of studies. I'm assuming you are talking about the Bible and History. Yes, it can be repetitive but we've grown to love it. We read the Bible study together as a family each morning (just the main scripture) and then my dd reads the history independently. Therefore, the repetition is solely on the child and I find that dd really understands the history much better and retains much more thanks to this element of CtC. The history is much more difficult reading and it helps to have a strong idea of what the story is about before reading this eloquently-versed older literature. Storytime: often times we do storytime at bedtime if we want or need to get ahead or cut down on hours spent working the next day. This might really help you right now as Storytime can add a good 20-30 minutes to the day. It sounds to me that this might be your first year with HOD. Hang in there. We've all felt the frustrations of starting a new curriculum. :grouphug: If you look at all of the subject areas you are getting accomplished each day with HOD, it's truly remarkable. If you have prayed for God's direction and HOD is where you landed, rest easy in this provision. If you haven't, ask God to give you peace with HOD if that is His will for your homeschool and see where that leads.