We use the Nora Gayos readers, too, and really like them. We also use the Merrill readers, which I like because they don't have pictures and my daughter can't guess.

I realize HOD doesn't go as high as TOG, but for the levels that are available in both, how do they compare academically? Does HOD achieve the same depth as TOG? Does it foster the same amount of independent, critical thinking? I feel like I understand the differences in the way they are set up, but I'm trying to discern the differences in what you end up with with each. Thanks!

Thanks for sharing, Alane! I think I would have a hard time not doing everything myself! I appreciate the reasons you listed!

Alane, would you mind commenting on why you left TOG Year 1 after the first unit? I'll have a first grader next year and am interested in hearing this if you don't mind sharing. Thanks!

Jess, you're the best! Thanks for taking the time to type all this out! I am printing this list to have for reference. It is a much better summary than my two catalogs with markings! : ) Thanks for the recommendations, too! I actually have a friend using SL K and I went to check out her books a couple of weeks ago. I think my daughter would enjoy the variety and the sheer number of books. The Usbourne encyclopedia was smaller than I'd like, but it did look very interesting. I think my daughter would enjoy everything I saw. I don't know anyone locally using HOD Beyond. Not many people here seem to have even heard of HOD yet. I am familiar with the CLP science book that is used since it is just like what we're using now (we have grades K and 1). I have a friend who has the main CLP history spine from MFW Adv., so I can take a look at that. You are right, I probably need to preview as much of the other books as I can at the library. Thanks again! Kathy

Yes, but I don't know which books from SL to add, which ones are the "good" ones. There is also a lot of overlap between the two programs, and comparing them to see which books are used where is turning out to be time consuming. I've started making notations in both catalogs as I come across books that are used in both programs, but it seems endless. I don't really want to jump the gun on the SL books that are used later in HOD. I guess what I'm saying is in my mind this isn't easily done, especially since I haven't done SL to know which ones to add in.

Thanks, birchbark, for your reply. I think part of the problem is I don't know how much reading we want to be doing. All I know is I wanted to do a lot more reading this year than we did in LHFHG, and I am not wanting to repeat that experience. I gather that it keeps going up as you progress in HOD, so I'm trying to determine how much I want to wait! I understand what you are saying about being able to supplement with SL books. My problem is that I don't know which ones are good ones to pick, and it is taking a lot of work to compare the two programs to see where the overlap is (since HOD uses quite a few SL books), since the topics are so different each year, and since HOD's literature is not tied to history in the emerging readers, DITHOR, and some of the read-alouds. I think if I had already used SL some, it would make it a lot easier to know which SL books I want to pull in. Regarding the hands-on factor, I'm undecided. My daughter does enjoy the hands-on activities we do for the most part, and I can pull my 3-yr old in on most of them, which they enjoy doing together. I'm not sure this hands-on factor needs to continue in this way past another year or two. I'd still have hands-on in science with SL. And I'd plan to do an art program for hands-on there. I don't know how much of LHFHG has actually been hands-on for history. It is usually related to the history topic/theme of the day in some way, but is usually more of an art project or science project in general, or the dramatic play. I feel like I wouldn't know about the hands-on factor until I tried SL and determined if we really felt like we were missing something. For me, it's more important to be reading together more at this age, which is what has really been missing for us this year. I'm finding if it's not scheduled, it's not getting done, and going to the library has been challenging at best. I feel like we would be doing a lot more learning/sparking her interest and enjoyment in learning with more books this year rather than the hands-on activities, which are a creative outlet but not necessarily a learning/intellectually stimulating experience. She doesn't seem to want to pursue any interests this year and we aren't having many engaging discussions after reading the LHFHG books. Something tells me the SL books would have sparked her interests/challenged her more this year.

Thanks, Carol. It is interesting to hear your perspective on the bible portion. It's hard to find feedback on that.

You are right, I have a Ker and a 3 year old, so I am looking at the younger cores. I'm really glad to hear your experience that it hasn't been too much reading and you are even able to add in The Chronicles of Narnia and the Little House books. We want to do those, too! Thanks so much for your response!

I am using LHFHG this year and I also wish I had added a science program. Science in LHFHG is extremely light if your child has any interest in science whatsoever. I added art and music appreciation as well as more read-alouds through Memoria Press' K program. I also do their poetry and recitation. It rounds out LHFHG nicely in those areas, and isn't too much to do time-wise. Their guide is very reasonably priced and I get the read-alouds at the library for the most part.

After reading a lot of threads about both programs, I am seeing these general conclusions: 1. Sonlight uses more books. 2. HOD wants you to savor the books and not feel rushed through them. 3. HOD holds off on some books to allow for more maturity before reading them. 4. HOD uses a lot of the same books as Sonlight. 5. SL uses Usbourne books. 6. HOD uses CLP books. 7. SL uses historical fiction to create an emotional connection with the reader. So here are my remaining questions: 1. Is HOD mostly historical fiction as well, or a blend with something else? I have the catalog, but since I don't know the books, it's hard for me to tell. How would you classify their books compared to SL? 2. What books does SL use that HOD doesn't? What will we miss? What types of books are these? Are they possibly eliminated due to maturity of content, sharing of different beliefs, or something else? 3. Does SL use more books with a missions/cultural/international focus than HOD? 4. In your personal opinion, which program has the "right" amount of books? I hear that some SL users feel rushed to "get through" the books. Does more books translate into more learning/coverage of material? Does SL feel "fuller" and more "complete" than HOD? Or is it just "too much"? 5. Which program has more interesting/engaging/intellectually stimulating spines? Or are they both doing this in their own ways? 6. HOD seems to tend toward Christian authors where possible. How do you feel this affects worldview? Does SL give a more balanced approach to history and still teach biblical discernment at the same time? Which program do you think will help a child know the Word, be able to discern the truth, be able to speak the truth with conviction, and yet still have a knowledge of other cultures and religions and be able to engage comfortably with those who share differing viewpoints? I guess my concern is with how much HOD is going to share different viewpoints. Since all the guides aren't written yet, it's hard to tell. 7. HOD starts off light in LHFHG as far as literature goes. Do you feel SL gives more depth in reading overall? Or does HOD catch up to SL in this as the levels progress? Thanks! Kathy

Thanks! I have a friend who used Singapore Essentials this year and did take a look at it. It does cover some things that EB does not. If we weren't doing HOD and the activities to go with EB, I probably would have gone with it. But I don't want to switch now, so late into the year. We are into the 2nd EB book and I plan to finish it. The repetition hasn't always been so bad, but the past several days had her doing the exact same thing over and over, which is what she didn't care for. I think we are fine though, since we are using the other programs. I do the SP EB every day since it is so quick, and then do RS one week and Saxon the next, since the lessons are so long in both. She seems to enjoy the variety. It's very interesting to see what is covered in each program. I feel like this is the year to do a test drive to get a feel for each.

I am pretty sure my dd6 prefers spiral math, or at least math with variety from day to day. We are currently using RSA, SP EB (with HOD's activities), Saxon 1, and a bit of Shiller here and there. She is in K. We like RSA and the games, but the lessons are just too long and I don't see us using this past B next year (possibly phasing it out before the end of B). I mainly wanted the introduction to the abacus and I'm thrilled with what we're getting there. My daughter likes the variety in the lessons. I'd like to try MM and feel like we need to give it a go in 1st so we don't come into it later and try to "catch up". My daughter has started showing signs of frustration with SP EB because she has to do the same thing several days in a row. If it weren't for the HOD activities that spice it up a little, I think she would not be enjoying it much at all. She does fine with Saxon and likes the variety, although it is a bit slow for her and the scripting is pretty aggravating because it makes it hard to move faster. We have been trying things out this year to get a feel for them but need to narrow down for next year. I'm sure we'll still be using more than one program (I plan to include either Saxon or CLE until I am comfortable with an "Asian" program as our only program). I'm trying to figure out if we should keep Singapore in the mix. As time goes on, would SP or MM be more interesting to a child who does better with variety? Any other thoughts on narrowing down these programs based on what I've said would be appreciated, too. Thanks!

Linda, Mandy, and Colleen, thank you so much for taking the time to reply! It is really helpful to have your insights! Colleen, I will post this on the SL forum as well. Thanks again!

Thanks, Colleen. I mainly just want to hear the positives of SL long-term. I don't see much about that on this forum. Lately I see a lot of people who use it up to parts of/the end of middle school and then move on to TOG or MFW or something else and I just wonder how many people are still using it long-term. It has been around a long time and seems proven, but I want to hear what a child ends up with if they use SL long-term. Thanks!

Thank you! This is the type of reply I am looking for!

For those of you who have used Sonlight long-term, can you please share how it has positively affected your family and what long-term benefits you see? Thank you! Kathy

A lot of you are commenting that you don't use/like the LA. Can you please provide specifics on why you don't like the LA? Do any of you use the LA as a supplement to other things? Is it worth it from that standpoint? Thanks!

Actually, I have considered combining the two. I've thought about using HOD's right-side "skills" boxes (LA, math) and not using their history, bible, science, and activities boxes. I would use SL for history, bible, read-alouds, science, and readers. I might go with HOD's Emerging Readers instead of SL's or after SL's LA 1 readers because I think my daughter is ready for the ERs. The HOD ERs are very similar to the SL 2 Readers, but my daughter isn't ready for the LA 2. I do like that HOD splits out the writing/LA from the reading. I might use HOD's poetry as well. I'll have to look at LBC again. What do you like about it?

What about it wasn't a good fit, if you don't mind sharing? Thanks!

Do you mind sharing your reasons? Thanks!

Can you please elaborate on why and what levels you switched from and to? Thank you!

Yes, but they weren't at my library, probably because they are biblical in nature (since history is bible for over half the year). I was frustrated that I couldn't find them. Now that we are into the other part of history, I'll take a look at that list again and see if any are available. However, the library is cumbersome for us right now, so that is another factor. Thanks for your reply, though!

I am at a crossroads, trying to decide between continuing with Beyond next year for 1st or trying Core K. If I stay on the HOD path, what will I miss out on from Sonlight over the years? Thanks, Kathy

Does this mean everyone who leaves Saxon for CLE math stays with it? :)