From the school profile: "Grades were subjectively computed using a mastery scale of A=high mastery, B=above average, C= satisfactory, and D=unsatisfactory." Then, in the course descriptions, I listed very clearly what was expected for each homeschooled class. " The course included...." was always my last line before the resource list. And if he was taking a class with an outside vendor I would state that. Then in the transcript I had superscripts that indicated if the course was taken through AoPS, the local uni, or with the NZ national exams. So it was clear who was giving the grades. I do not run my homeschool like a school -- I do not give tests and I do not grade papers. But yet I had to align the documentation to a form that they could understand and were expecting. This was NOT an easy task, and I had lots of help from Regentrude and others.

Yes, I gave grades for all classes. I wrote up in my school profile document that I uses a mastery system to determine grades. So for the homeschool classes where I thought he had mastered the material, I gave him an A. This was a subjective determination for the homeschool classes and not based on a grade book or some such. But in my mind, I aligned my homeschool course grades to his national exams grades and standardized tests. So he got a 780 on the SAT verbal and all 'excellences' on his five English national exams, this meant that his social studies classes were all As because in my mind he had demonstrated his deep thinking and capability to read high end content. These exam marks confirmed my subjective evaluation that he had mastered the content and skills of a related field. He was doing international math exams, this meant that all his self-studied math courses received As. etc.

Found another. His first physics class had no tests or output based on his textbook physics work. He just read the textbook and did Regentrude's problem list. Basically, I could have had just one physics class on the transcript, but I needed a place to put his science fair project because it was enormous. So the second physics course had the NZ national exams listed. Physics with Lab. (1 credit) This course covered kinematics, forces, Newton’s Laws, circular motion, rotational dynamics, linear and angular momentum, energy, oscillations, waves, electric field, circuits, capacitors, and magnetism. Science Fair project: Red Light, Green Earth: Saving Time and Emissions by Timing of Traffic Lights. Data for 15 variables was collected for a city street adjacent to the harbour including velocity of cars, timing of the lights, distance between lights, number of cars, etc. A model was developed to time the lights to decrease idling time at lights, and used to predict petrol and thus CO2 savings on an annual basis. Textbook: Knight et al., College Physics. 2010. --------------------- Forgot I put in PE. No output there either. Wing Tsun 9, 10, 11, and 12. (Wing Tsun School, 0.5 credits each year) This course took a traditional Chinese approach to combining physical fitness and coordination with mental discipline and ethics. The class included lectures on Chinese culture, Cantonese terminology, and moral codes. Students took turns leading the class in the Wing Tsun forms, and received critical review from Sifu and top students. The class focused on cooperative learning and integrating Wing Tsun philosophies into daily life. Classes met 3 hours per week. ------------------------- I'm looking at HALF of his courses having minimal to no output. But this was balanced by the other half having intensive output with National exams, numerous essays and research papers, high-end labs, etc.

Ok, reading through my course description document. These are the ones with no/minimal output, I just copied in an example when they were all about the same. So 13 courses with minimal to no output, which was very clearly labeled compared to the other courses which had external national exams or large research papers or clearly tons of writing. (I don't do homeschool tests) All four mandarin classes Mandarin 3. (private tutor, 1 credit) This course studied more complex narratives while incorporating insights into Chinese history and culture. The third year emphasized expanding vocabulary, improving understanding of grammar and structure, and increasing confidence with writing short paragraphs. The goal was to recognize 800 characters by the end of the course. The course was taught almost exclusively in Chinese by a private tutor. Textbooks: Xiaoqi. Boya Chinese 2. Peking University Press. 2004. Yao et al. Fundamental Written Chinese. 2009. All his self-studied math classes He just read the textbooks and did whatever problems he wanted to do. He was so motivated, that I did not do anything except keep getting him new notebooks when the old one was full. I had 4 self-studied math classes on his transcript that I labeled as university equivalent. Real Analysis. (1 credit) This university-level course covered the fundamentals of mathematical analysis using the classic text by Rudin. Topics included basic topology, numerical sequences and series, continuity, differentiation, the Riemann-Stieltjes Integral, sequences and series of functions, and functions of several variables. Textbook: Rudin. Principles of Mathematical Analysis. 1976. OpenCourseware: Real Analysis. MIT. All his social science classes had minimal or no output. I was very worried about the US History class because my dh was reading mostly middle school books so that my younger could be involved. But once again, I worked hard to realize what we had actually done, and wrote about that. We also had spent so much time on what I considered "English" that I broke out some of that work and put it into US History - all the King and JFK work was actually for English in my mind at the time, but moved into History when I wrote up the course descriptions because English was just way too full. US History in a World Context. (1 credit) This course focused on historical events from 1840-1975 and studied how ideas, beliefs and social mores have shaped the United States. The course asked probing questions, challenged preconceived assumptions, and evaluated biases. It also studied how to critically evaluate different interpretation of historical events and why these interpretations can vary over time. The power of rhetoric in shaping perception was studied by critically analyzing the writing and speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr. and John F. Kennedy. The course included reading assignments, participation in discussions, and short essays. Texts: Classical Rhetoric for the Modern Student, by Edward Corbett Rhetoric in the Classical Tradition, by Winifred Horner Narrative of the Life of Fredrick Douglas, by Fredrick Douglass. The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, by Mark Twain. To Kill a Mocking Bird, by Harper Lee The Great Gatsby, by F. Scott Fitzgerald The Crucible, by Author Miller Letter from Birmingham Jail, Martin Luther King, Jr. Inaugural Address, John F. Kennedy Frontier Living, by Edwin Tunis Shutting out the Sky: Life in the Tenements of New York, by Deborah Hopkinson Bootleg: Murder, Moonshine, and the Lawless Years of Prohibition, by Karen Blumenthal Six Days in October: the Stock Market Crash of 1929, by Karen Blumenthal Hitler Youth: Growing up in Hitler’s Shadow, by Susan Bartoletti The Bomb: The Race to Build the World’s Most Dangerous Weapon, by Steve Sheinkin After Gandhi: 100 years of nonviolent resistance, by Anne O’Brien Black Gold: The Story of Oil in our Lives, by Albert Marrin Ken Burns The Civil War (9 hours) Ken Burns The West (8 hours) World War 1 in Color (6 hours) World War 2 in Color (11 hours) Vietnam War: a Television History (11 hours) ------------------------ Contemporary World Problems was a class I built from 4 years of nightly reading of high end magazines. He read, and we discussed at the dinner table. Contemporary World Problems. (1 credit) This course covered political, economic, social, and environmental problems and sought to understand current events from a historical perspective. The course explored relationships between events, evaluated competing beliefs and goals, and identified bias. Scientific and technological advancements were also studied to better understand the part they play in solving some of the world’s most difficult problems. These periodicals were read year-round throughout high school, yielding 800 hours of reading. The course included reading assignments, participation in discussions, and short essays. Texts: The Economist, National Geographic, Scientific American. --------------------- For this philosophy class, I pulled stuff out of English again, because English was just too full. The 3 essays he wrote were actually for English at the time, but moved here. I also added in the Godel, Escher, and Bach book because I couldn't figure out where to put it. It did take him a *very* long time to read. The History of Western Thought. (1 credit) This course examined the development of the western intellectual tradition from the Greeks through to 20th-century thinkers. Topics included metaphysics, epistemology, ethics, and political philosophy. The course examined the rational basis of belief in all areas of inquiry, and taught critical and creative thinking and how to construct a cogent argument. In addition to studying the great thinkers of each era, philosophical novels by classic authors were read and discussed including Voltaire, Faust, Dostoyevsky, Borges, Camu, Hemingway, and Vonnegut. The course also took a detour into the philosophy of consciousness and how it can be analytically modelled. The course included reading assignments, participation in discussions, and short essays. Textbooks: Blackburn. Think: A Compelling Introduction to Philosophy. 1999. Garvey. The Twenty Greatest Philosophy Books. 2006. Hofstadter. Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid. 1979. Lecture Series: Justice. EdX. Harvard University ----------------------------- Same as the one I posted above, but thought I would put it here for completeness Macroeconomics and Inequality. (0.5 credits) Using the Piketty’s Capital in the Twenty-First Century, this course evaluated and analyzed the history, theory, and implications of inequality in the world. The focus was on understanding how historical data can aid in understanding past and present trends in multiple countries. The student learned to track and reconstruct complex arguments and evaluate evidence such as facts, statistics, examples, and expert opinions. Khan Academy lectures were used to provide the necessary background on economic growth, the business cycle, the global economy, unemployment, inflation, and economic policy. The Economist was used to understand macroeconomics in the context of current events and across many different economic and political systems. The course included reading assignments and participation in discussions. Textbook: Piketty. Capital in the Twenty-First Century. 2014 Macroeconomics lectures from Khan Academy The Economist. Weekly magazine. ----------------------- This was just an AP review book. It was a get it done class, so I had him read the book and then do the multiple choice questions in his head. I'd ask him " how did you do?" and he would say, "I got them all right". I called this 'unit tests' in the course description. I figured it was no different than multiple choice tests given all over the US. In addition, we discussed at the dinner table how the NZ government worked compared to the countries he was reading about. I considered this an easy A. I did have a superscript category on the transcript where I marked AP equivalent classes (I'm in NZ so no AP), I did not include this one. This was an easy, get it done class. Basically, with the board's help, most people thought that because ds was a US citizen and applying as such, that he may need to have a government class as a strict requirement. So we made it short and sweet and ticked the box. He also did learn some stuff! Comparative Government. (0.5 credits) This course focused on political science concepts in a variety of country settings. The course covered sovereignty, authority, power, political institutions, citizens, the state, political change, economic change, and public policy. It compared the government and political system of New Zealand to systems in the United Kingdom, Russian Federation, China, Mexico, Iran, Nigeria, and Vietnam. Students learned to interpret graphs and data analysis and were expected to compare themes across countries. The course included reading assignments and unit tests. Textbook: Davis. Comparative Government & Politics. 2016

We did all four of my older boy's social science classes as no-output/minimal output. I was very clear in each course description what was required, and no school made any comment. I worked hard to make sure the course description showed off what my son learned even without output. The key is to see, really see, what your child is actually learning and write about that in the course descriptions. They may never read them, but my guess is that they read one in an area they are concerned about. We had no outside evidence for any SS course, so I figured they skimmed that section. So for example, for Economics, we sat on the sofa together and took turns reading the book out loud, discussing it, and looking up anything we didn't understand. He also read the Economist cover to cover every week, which I split up between this course and his Contemporary World Problems course. So he read and discussed. That's it. But was it? This is what I wrote for Economics: Macroeconomics and Inequality. (0.5 credits) Using the Piketty’s Capital in the Twenty-First Century, this course evaluated and analyzed the history, theory, and implications of inequality in the world. The focus was on understanding how historical data can aid in understanding past and present trends in multiple countries. The student learned to track and reconstruct complex arguments and evaluate evidence such as facts, statistics, examples, and expert opinions. Khan Academy lectures were used as needed to provide the necessary background on economic growth, the business cycle, the global economy, unemployment, inflation, and economic policy. The Economist was used to understand macroeconomics in the context of current events and across many different economic and political systems. The course included reading assignments and participation in discussions. Textbook: Piketty. Capital in the Twenty-First Century. 2014 Macroeconomics lectures from Khan Academy The Economist. Weekly magazine. Notice that I am focusing on him increasing his reading capability. Piketty's argument is incredibly complex and long and full of data, so I focused in the course description on him learning how to 'track complex arguments." Piketty's book also really focuses on data and what it means and how you can and can't use it, so notice that is also in the description. Don't short change your kid. Learning does not equate to output. And I don't consider this some sort of cheat either. My kid won the humanities/social science scholarship his sophomore year in university because this approach to highschool study was incredibly effective and prepared him well. If you want me to post my other 3 social science courses, I'm happy to do so.

Be aware that not all universities require you to retake classes that you have self studied. My older boy is a physics and math double major at MIT. He was allowed to take Graduate level math classes his freshman year, even though he had only officially taken 2 university classes in highschool -- all other undergraduate content he self studied. All he had to do was talk to the professor, explain his background, and he was allowed in. So his undergraduate math major is all graduate level classes. As for physics, unless a kid competed in the IPhO, MIT recommended that physics majors retake University Physics even if they had had a 5 on the AP exams. The university has a special theoretical version of University Physics that is designed for physics majors and goes way beyond the AP content. I also did not have my ds go to university early, but the problem soon became that the local university classes (which is considered good) were just too low level for him because there were no other students of his caliber in the country (we are in NZ so it is a small pool). He got really frustrated with the 2 university classes he took, which is why he ended up self-studying throughout high school. DE is not always the solution for highly gifted kids.

I started learning Māori in December. I'm mostly text based right now because I have a terrible ear. There has been an upsurge in Māori in New Zealand, so all the classes are full unfortunately. I really need to get going on my vocab, but that part I hate the most, and so far I have not found any resources that will work for me, so I'm using old fashioned flash cards. I've got the top 1000 word list that I'm working through. And it is fun to attempt to translate everything in town (all government signs are bilingual), but Māori is very figurative, so my translations often make me laugh.

As for placing out of all the intro classes so you have more time for your STEM major, my older son has very much enjoyed taking one HASS class each term (Humanities, Arts, Social Science) as a break from a strong STEM load. There are only so many p-sets that even a STEM kid wants to do each week.

My son accelerated through math by taking multiple AoPS courses in a school year. I don't remember the details, but he worked over the summer and got through Algebra 2 and Precalculus in a 12 month period.

Cross post this on the high school board. A lot of people switch from posting on the accelerated board to the high school board once their kid finishes 8th grade. There are a lot of very knowledgeable posters there that don't read this sub-board. ETA: I see that you have already done this and are getting a stronger response. Welcome to the board!

Why don't you create a course that is interesting to him. Do it yourself. Here are just some random ideas for a STEM kid: 1) History of science 2) Ethics of privacy and information 3) Ethics of bioscience 4) Environmental Law 5) History of Manufacturing 6) Science communication - how to talk and write for a lay audience 7) The impact of colonialism on Africa (not STEM, but my younger did this and it was super fascinating) Basically, ask him what he wants to study, and design a course around it. Have him write a research paper on something that fascinates him. If he is really high end, you could do something like The ethics of evaluating risk in large scale scientific projects . My older boy studied that for a term, and did a research paper on the Gulf Coast oil disaster - the Deepwater Horizon disaster. He reseached how it came to happen due to a lack of leadership and due to complex and inefficient governmental oversight. This overlaid with a capitalist motive made for fascinating stuff, and very valuable to a future STEM leader. Social Science/ History can be crazy broad. Link it to his STEM interests so that it is work that he values and is interested in doing. Have the output be small, make the focus on the research and the learning.

Does it have to be an outsourced class?

So you have a plan: Teach math, science, writing, Russian. Outsource piano. Co-learn social sciences. So all you have to do to implement the plan is pre-learn the sciences, which I've seen the thread for. 🙂 Now, just to find the time......... Story of my life. I've got rocks to go identify. My son has decided that every rock he ever found and brought home now needs a name and a description of how it was formed. This has been a bit challenging today. "So this one is grey and has little white dots. Clearly, it must be........"

Sorry, Noelle, I think we have taken over your thread. Not exactly 'research' based methods. But Not_a_Number and I love to chat!! So hopefully this diversion might give you some food for thought. 🙂

Ah, well, perhaps it will be easier for you. You can tell me all your stories in a decade. 🙂 My only point is that you should plan to be adaptable, and although you really love top-down direct teaching because you and your kids find it very very effective, does not mean that that will be true in the future. So be open to the other options - facilitation, outsourcing, and co-learning. I never in my wildest dreams expected to spend a full year learning about the impact of colonialism on Africa. There is no way I could have predicted that I needed to prepare to teach a course in leadership, deep enough to be able to compare the economic, social, and political impact of Khama of Botswana compared to Mobutu in the DRC. That simply was not on my list of stuff to pre learn. haha

Me too! It has been a joy and a privilege. But I think you are wrong about *shrug*. 🙂

Before you suggest that you will learn everything up front so you can top-down directly teach all subjects, let me give you a feel for the number of classes that 2 children will get through. For highschool subjects (level of content, not age based), this is how I ended up getting my kids through highschool. Using my previous list of facilitation, direct teaching, outsourcing, co-learning: Math: Older: Direct teaching until I outsourced to AoPS. Outsourced 10th grade to university (which was a major fail). Facilitated his self learning of maths in 11th-12th grade. Younger: Direct teaching all courses through calculus. Science: Older: Co-learned physics and chemistry. Facilitated Biology. Taught scientific method through facilitating science fair projects. Younger: directly taught chemistry, physics. Co-learned Geology. English: Directly taught composition to both my boys through 12th grade. Co-learned literature with both my boys (I read at the same time and we discussed) Economics of Inequality; Comparative Government; Impact of Colonialism on African through economic, social, and political lenses; NZ Demographics and Racism; NZ Geographic issues of the South Island -- co-learned first 2 older and last 3 with younger. World History, US History, Contemporary World Problems, NZ history - my dh co-learned these with both boys. So I outsourced to dh! Music: outsourced violin for both my sons Foreign Language: outsourced Mandarin for my older; co-learning Maori with my younger -------------- My point is that you may not be able to directly teach ALL classes at a highschool level. Pre-learning all that content, especially because it evolves over time with a child's interests, would be close to impossible. I struggled to outsource much because my older was strongly asynchronous and my younger is twice exceptional.

It really depends on your homeschooling style and your kids learning needs. If you have independent learners, you can 1) facilitate. This is where you educate yourself enough to buy excellent resources and let them at it. It requires little subject matter expertise. However, if your kids need one on one instruction or prefer collaborative learning, you need to decide it you will 2) outsource, 3) co-learn, 4) teach. Teaching is top down and you prepare ahead; and co-learning is collaborative and done concurrently. I have done all 4 types of homeschooling depending on my kid's potential, their personal interests, and my interest/commitment. All homeschooling methodologies can be very effective if well chosen and targeted to the situation that presents itself. Be realistic as to what they need, and what you are actually able to provide. You must prioritize if you plan to finish this very long journey. Many start; few finish.

This has been a herculean effort for me. Start early!

I do wonder if the purpose of grades is to encourage learning or to rank students. Ranking is a dangerous game for many reasons.

The American system of grades is just so corrupt. Here, the only grades that count are the national exams. These are both external exams (like the AP exams but all essay here), but also internal assessments (papers, labs, art portfolios, speaking tests in foreign language, music performances, etc). But these internal assessments are moderated by the national body for both the difficulty of the exam and then the grading. Each school has to send in example papers for how they give out A, B, C, and F, to make sure that they are not marking too hard or too easy. And they send in a representative sample of all their internal assessments across all subjects to make sure that they have not made these assessments too easy or too hard. These assessments must align with the national curriculum statements which are very detailed but allow for a variety of content to be used. Your grade for a course is based on the external exams that are all the same and the internal assessments that vary by school but are moderated. No grade inflation here.

YUP. For 8 of the 36 weeks of the year. This is why I had never had high school physics when I took engineering physics at Duke.

Also, ds's uni requires a year of university calculus to graduate (it is a tech school). It will take AP credit if you earn a 5, but it won't take any DE or transfer credit because these CC and university courses are too inconsistent. Students are required to take the final exam for semester 1 and 2 during orientation week in August if they want to place out.

I'm not responding to this quote. But I can't get rid of it. LOL. Anyway, this kind of shoddy teaching goes way back. In 1986, I chose not to take Physics in highschool because I knew that they spent ALL of November and December (as in 8 week) writing a physics POEM that was worth 20% of their grade for the year. I kind of wanted to be learning stuff, not rhyming physics terms.

They have an office to help with this type of application, and now I am clear why it is a different office than for the Rhodes, Fulbright etc. Those go through the Distinguished Fellowship office, whereas the NSF Grad Fellowship goes through the Graduate office. Now this all makes sense, because the NSF fellowship is a completely different kettle of fish. Thanks everyone for making some stuff clear. DS will be chatting with both offices next week.