Well, you need to cut him some slack here, Spy Car, and work with the metaphor. Any antonym to "brick" might be considered offensive by you and others on this thread. I can't speak for PQR, but I don't think he was striving for "vile bigotry."

Well now, see, if you had included this information in your original post I would have understood more of why you wanted out of your current living situation. I didn't understand your reference to "soccer moms" in your original posts, and in your subsequent ones, it just seemed as if you are craving friendship. Forgive me, but moving away will not guarantee your happiness and you were the one who brought up the concern of making the leap in the first place. Beware, though, there are busy bodies EVERYWHERE, even in rural locations. If you want to move, then move, for goodness sakes! Why live your life with fear? If your husband is truly on board (although your OP stated otherwise), and your family is in tact, then what's the problem?

Oh, but wait...there are some polygamists out there ready to change that. They're probably making their signs right about now for their parade next week down Main Street. Give them a few years and they'll be on a different train receiving glares from rude children. Holy cow, that mother will never ride public transportation again! But then that would mean the tree huggers will be offended... (I know, I know...stick to the topic. Until this becomes a spin off I guess I'll join the bandwagon. :D)

Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for bringing us back to the original topic. It's CRAZY how this thread got out of control.

Well, I just got tired of this thread after all the crazy tangents it went on. But just like that quote from the Godfather, "Just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in." (or something like that. :D)

Hi, again. I guess you posted this while I wrote my last response. Our bedtime routine over here took FOREVER so I'm just now able to respond to this one. Basically, I stand by my earlier response but just want to add that I understand a little more of what you are missing. Can I just say, though, that so many SAHMs feel the way you do and would LOVE to have someone such as yourself come in and shake up their humdrum lives? We often resort to the same boring conversations revolving around our kids because well, kids are usually what we have in common. If what you are craving is stimulating conversation and companionship, you just need to "bring it." Your last post reminded me so much of the "Frazier Crane" character in the sitcom, "Cheers." He was so out of his element in that crazy bar but the locals eventually warmed up to him and strangely, he found a place there, too. I just think you are missing the fact that friends can be packaged in all sorts of different ways.

RoughCollie, Thanks for giving us your definition of a "soccer mom." I mean no disrespect here, but it seems as if you may not be enjoying your life right now and it really doesn't matter where you hang your hat. The house sounds beautiful but moving there won't guarantee you'll find like minded friends and you may still wear the "WEIRDO" label there, too. Why should that matter anyway, though, if you are convicted in living YOUR life the way YOU want? BTW, I've found that women talk about those same topics you mentioned regardless of where they live. And until their kids can drive themselves, they still cart their kids wherever they need to go. Perhaps if you look harder with a different pair of glasses, you might find other SAHMs who are more suitable to your liking. Please forgive me if I'm totally off base with my comments. It's just that as a military wife, I've uprooted so many times to places I never wanted to go, sometimes with young kids BTW, just to keep my family together. I'm not a fan of long-distance marriage!;) I've always been advised by other military wives to "bloom where you are planted." I hated that phrase when I first married into the military but I have since accepted it as my own and can say it does make a difference in how I choose to live my life. It just sounds to me as if you need to add color to that box you're living in, especially if your hubby doesn't want to move out of suburbia. Remember, it's his box, too. You might find that others will like the splash of color you are using and decide to paint their own as well.

your terminology, I mean. It seems as if you are more concerned about where you live rather than the sports/activities your kids play. I live in the suburbs but know MANY moms who have chosen to limit or cut out altogether their kids activities. I would not consider them soccer moms. To me, that label is reserved for the moms who could be mistaken for taxi drivers, shuttling their kids to multiple activities several times a week, or the ones who are overly involved in the activities themselves. However, I also have friends who live out in the country and still choose to be this sort of "soccer mom." They just have to drive farther. They love where they live but still want their kids involed in sports and other activities. Just what is it that you are referring to in your question...not wanting to be an overly involved, taxi-driving mom, or one who is concerned about where you live?

Well, I usually DO glare at politicians, LOL. I also think that in many cases they ARE outsmarted by monkeys, fish, and yes, even birds. Does that make me horrible?:D Here's the thing that concerns me. Sin IS sin, period. Why should we tolerate it at all? I don't want my children exposed to ANY of the sins you mentioned. I want my children to hide their faces to all sin. In fact, I shield them as much and for as long as I can. Yet I do teach them to hate the sin but love the sinner, just as Jesus did. The thing that bothers me most about this topic is that in today's world, we are forced to tolerate sin lest we be called "stupid," "mean," or (gasp) "politically incorrect." We are also forced to expose our youngest children to sin because others lack the shame to hide it.

:iagree: I've said it before on a different thread but I'll say it again here, "Giddy up, PQR!!!!"

on another forum. I had been trying to decide between MUS and Saxon and was basically driving myself nuts in the process. We're enrolled with Kolbe Academy so I thought I'd ask their advisors for opinions. I've cut and pasted below my original question and the answer I received. I do need to say, however, that MUS does offer a systematic review of previous lessons which perhaps the advisor was not aware. Even so, I found the detailed response about the MUS high school levels helpful and maybe it will be for you as well. ######################################## Thoughts on Math U See vs saxon??? Hi. I have a ds9 (rising into 4th grade) and a dd5 (rising to 1st). We have used MCP up to 3rd grade for ds and we are now considering our options for 4th and 1st grade. We're at a point in Kolbe where Saxon 5/4 is recommended for 4th grade and I'm curious how this compares to Math U See as we are exploring the idea of using it instead for both children. I'm also curious to know how MUS users do in higher math and college level courses. I think I'm mainly concerned if my children will be prepared for college math using MUS. Any thoughts from our moderators and others who can compare saxon and MUS? Do you know if colleges prefer one over the other? Is it a problem that MUS ends at Pre-Calculus? --Mari **************************************** Dear Mari, I can only speak in general terms on MUS. It is a very different set up than Saxon... more of a mastery approach than spiral approach. So an entire year is mostly dedicated to fractions, while another year is mostly dedicated to two-digit multiplication etc. Whereas Saxon integrates their topics much more in middle school doing a little of this and a little of that as you progress. What I would suggest is to view and stick with one of the programs from 4th through pre-Algebra (which could be 7th or 8th grade depending on the child). Choose based on the students learning style. Once Algebra I is to begin, there is typically no harm in switching programs if you want to (or prefer to use something else). But you can see that switching between Saxon and MUS within middle school would pose some problems b/c of their different sequence in teaching the concepts. Calculus is also a good "breaking" point to switching to another program. There are not many homeschool friendly Calculus programs out there (Saxon is the only fully homeschool oriented program right now though there are some that can be adapted more easily like Thinkwell which has lectures). So as long as the program you use in high school goes through preCalculus, you should get the coverage you need to prepare for Calculus I whether it be through Saxon, a community college, or otherwise. I am sure there are students that use MUS who do splendidly on their college entrance exams and others that bomb (same goes with any program!) I think what is most important is that you have the tools to successfully teach the math to your student so that they can do well. However, in looking at their high school program (which is the easiest to compare to other typical high school sequences), here are a few things I see that would be of concern to me: In Algebra I, no introduction to the quadratic equation or completing the square. (however, they cover significant figures which is great for science math prep!) Distance formula is also not covered until Algebra II and I always like to see that introduced before Geometry. In Algebra II, introduction to the quadratic equation looks to be about midway through the course, which is pretty late in my opinion for a first introduction. Logs are not introduced at all in Algebra II... that is a HUGE dissappointment in sequence. That shouldn't be left for PreCalculus in my opinion. In fact, its left until the end of their PreCalculus course... i think i could let it slide if it were introduced first in PreCalc! Also, Domain and Range don't appear to be addressed until PreCalculus either. This is one of the first topics that should be addressed in Algebra II and is definitely a handicap if you don't cover before taking the SAT or ACT. In PreCalculus, there seems to be a pretty standard coverage of trigonometry, which is good. There is also good coverage of series and sequences but it doesn't hit on the basics of probability and statistics. A plus is that it does cover limits at the end of the course but I don't see any coverage of higher order factoring either. So overall, it seems like their sequence of courses is about 1/2 year to 3/4 of a year behind a typical sequence in high school math. (exept for the domain and range topic... that is really addressed far to late in my opinion in a typical math sequence). So really I think this means its a problem for a student who wants to take the ACT or SAT at the end of their junior year and may be just finishing up MUS's Algebra II course. It may not be so much of a problem if the student will be doing Algebra I in the 8th grade such that they are a year ahead in the sequence, but that may not be plausible depending on how you get to Algebra I. Again I've not actually delved into the MUS books themselves, but looking at the Table of Contents did bring up some flags that I look for in evaluating books. Whether the above are a concern for you and your student is up to you. Credit wise, we do accept MUS for typical high school math credit. ________________________ (ADVISOR'S NAME REMOVED)

Hi. Military wife here. The neat thing about PCSing is that you get a chance to start over again with each move. Your past with your friend will make a "do over" seem awkward but if I'm understanding you correctly, you don't really want to have her as close a friend as before anyway. You've already sent out a peace offering and contact info should she need anything. The ball is now in her court to contact you if she wants. It sounds like you have enough distance between you during this assignment so it will probably work out fine. I agree with everything SWM wrote except if you don't want her in your inner circle, don't go out of your way to make her feel otherwise.

I'm kind of thinking about it myself. Check it out at http://www.aop.com

I had mine done a few years ago and like another poster said, the numbing the toe part was really the worst of it. He'll be fine. I seem to remember they actually gave me an open toe "boot" to wear for the day. I don't think I had anything for medication except tylenol. Make sure ds gets good cleaning instructions and if not, I'm sure a follow up phone call will be easy enough. Good luck!

Well, like I earlier wrote, they are controversial but many parents do find a few nuggets in their books. As far as their credentials go, this is what the Ezzos say about themselves: http://www.gfi.org/java/jsp/cust_ezzo.jsp I couldn't follow their methods to a "T" but I did appreciate much of what they had to say. I know there is negative publicity out there but, hey, there's negative publicity out there on the Free-Range Kids book, too. Come to think of it, there's negative publicity out there against us homeschoolers, too. ;) I tend to take what I like from each parenting book I read and discard the rest, IYKWIM.

Maybe others who are fans of the Ezzos can chime in here since I don't have the books in my home anymore. If I'm remembering correctly, it's the NEEDS of the family that outweigh the one individual. So in your example, oldest child #1 wants a Wii but he will probably be the only one playing it because children #2 and #3 are too young to play it. Do you waste the money on that one child's enjoyment or spend the money on entertainment that the entire family can and would enjoy? The idea is to lead the child to understand he is one of many rather than the one and only.

Basically the idea is that parents should raise their children with an understanding that the needs of the family (society) outweigh the needs of any one individual in that family. I think I first heard of this when I read On Becoming Babywise, by Gary and Ann Marie Ezzo. There's an entire series based on ages from infants to teens. It's rather controversial and probably not welcomed by fans of Attached Parenting as you could read in book reviews on Amazon.com. I don't agree with everything they recommend but I think they are right on with this "family-centered" approach to parenting. Too often, we parents put our children at the center of our universe and ultimately wind up with self-centered teens who expect nothing more than instant gratification. Sadly, we've created a "me, Me, ME" culture. I seem to remember the Babywise series was secular in content but the Ezzos also have a lecture series called Growing Kids God's Way, which many churches use. You can learn more about them at http://www.gfi.org/ .

Actually, I probably wouldn't appreciate it either BUT I would still want to know. Those are two separate things in my mind. I'm not necessarily interested in appreciation but instead resolution, KWIM? Also, it would help me understand the situation better if I heard another opinion. All that would be unnecessary, though, if the parent were involved enough to witness the poor behavior themselves. My apologies for hi-jacking this thread. I did try real hard to keep my posts related to the book. Will you please forgive me if I told you it's on my amazon wishlist?

Mari, I wasn't judging you, just responding to the specific scenario you put forth. Well you did use the "I agree" sign.;) We deal with obnoxious kids in activities all the time and generally we ignore them. So do we. It's part of life and we all need to know how to deal with it. Last summer 2 of my boys went to a daycare summer camp. One little girl was TERRIBLE to them - calling them names, getting the other kids to gang up against them, etc. I spoke to the teacher and I spoke to the director. They had tried talking to the mother, but she was the type that thought their child was perfect. I never went directly to the parent, even though I saw her regularly. Eventually, I pulled them out. Okay, so again, another example of how bad apples spoil the bunch. Your daughter had to suffer the consequences of someone else's bad behavior. It wasn't my place to go to the parent - if they wouldn't listen to the director or teacher, why would they listen to me? Why wouldn't they listen to you? Well, it doesn't matter because you never gave them the chance. I think this really intimidates people. There's a way to do it...privately, calmly, and well intentioned. If the shoe was on the other foot, wouldn't you want to know? In our case, my dc have less freedom than they used to because we moved to a less safe area. There are drug dealers here and we hear lots of domestic situations. They cannot leave sight of the house here and the 4yo cannot leave the porch if no one else is outside. At our old house, though, they were "free-range" (as were my chickens - LOL at the tag.) It was safer and we knew all the neighbors. Who knows what the rules will be at the new place. The yard is fenced in there and the neighborhood is better. I don't think there are many kids there, though, so it may not even be an issue. I won't live my life in fear. There is a certain amount of trust in God at play. I want them to grow up to be independent - we also practice early maturity so at 12 or so we no longer consider them children. It requires a certain amount of freedom to get there, though. When I read your first post, it gave me a very different impression of what you practiced than your subsequent posts. Yet I was very clear, even in my first point, that is was more an issue of parameters set forth by a parent to determine if their child was ready to face the challenges associated with being free-range. It seems most of us agree on this point at least.

Good grief! I never said I would ever "go onto the floor to intervene if my child is being disruptive or another kid is or anything." And I was very clear that I have always let my son deal with the issues himself up to this point. What I did imply is perhaps discussing the issue with the parent directly and privately. I think there is a way of doing that calmly, civily, and with good intentions. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. Finding another coach is impossible at this stage of the game (STS) although I don't understand the assumption that it is entirely his fault. Trust me when I say he does have amazing talents out on the field with kids willing to listen and follow directions.

You know, I think you and Barb have judged me without knowing fully the capabilities and maturity levels of my children. Interestingly, the author of the book was on The View today. She had much to say about how parents can't just throw their kids "out there" but instead need to help their children reach a point of handling themselves in challenging situations. I'm sure you can find the episode at their website.

Yes, it is unfortunate and we haven't done anything yet. As I wrote, we are merely contemplating our next step since nothing else has worked so far. I really don't want to hi-jack this thread with our soccer team woes. Suffice it to say it's not as easy a solution as you've suggested since the league will not enforce the rules of which the parents don't seem to want to comply. Either way, the well behaved kids will still have to pay the penalty when the brats' parents should have been dealing with their own kids long ago, had they wanted to be involved in the first place. It's not okay with me whenever the bad apples spoil the bunch.

Maybe, but an involved parent would want to be around to see how his/her child responds to poor behavior directed at him/her, wouldn't they? An involved parent could probably step up and help the volunteer, unpaid coach who may need a little more assistance out on the field. An involved parent would do these because ultimately it affects how much their own child is learning. An involved parent might need to step up and talk to the offending players parents' personally to back up the coach. This is unfortunately what my husband and I are are contemplating because if the coach does kick the players off the team, there will be no more team period. There just won't be enough players. That would be unfortunate all the way around, not to mention a huge waste of our time and money. The coach is not there to control the kids. He's there to lead them and teach them the skills they need to play soccer. Young kids just need supervision, period. You would think it would be as easy as having the parents control them but how can that work if they're not involved enough to stick around at practice after the coach asks them to?