I tried to watch the Baucham video on YouTube and it says that it's no longer available due to some copyright thing. :( Does anyone have another link for it? ( I know - I should just go to YouTube and search for it myself but I'm feeling lazy today. ;))

You could actually make a solution of ammonium acetate by using ammonia and vinegar (acetic acid). You could then evaporate the water and you'd have relatively pure ammonium acetate crystals left. You'd have to make sure you started with pure ammonia and acetic acid, though. (i.e. You can't use balsamic vinegar or anything other than white vinegar or plain pickling vinegar and you can't use a household cleaner with ammonia in it - it has to be straight ammonia.) If you want to go this route, let me know and I can give you more detailed instructions. :)

The price thing is annoying. :( If you're desperate, go to your local pharmacy and ask the pharmacist if he/she can order in some chemicals for you. You might end up with larger containers than you wanted, though. Something to try for those who can't get certain chemicals any other way.

Thanks! I'll add him to the list. I can't say I'll have time to work deeply through the entire list so no one should be too impressed. :D I like having it as a reference list, though, to give me ideas of where to go next.

Just curious, SM3... Couldn't you cancel your order with Elemental Scientific and place a new one with Home Science Tools? Did you go with Elemental because they had things that HST didn't offer? Or was it a price thing? Or something else? Hmmm... A home distillery... My dh is in if we can produce some decent single malt scotch. :)

Here's a list of the collected resources. I'll re-list the ones that I had mentioned and then add on to the list any suggestions that weren't duplicates. I'll list specific books and authors where they were given, just author names if that's all that was given, and I'll put YouTube in brackets after any names where the material appears on YouTube. The list isn't in alphabetical order; it's just in the order that the suggestions appeared in the thread. Please let me know if I've missed any or made any mistakes! :) The Evolution of Adam by Peter Enns The Case for the Real Jesus by Lee Strobel Imagination and Spirit: A Contemporary Quaker Reader edited by J. Brent Bill The Plain Reader: Essays on Making a Simple Life edited by Scott Savage Plain Living: A Quaker Path to Simplicity written and collected by Catherine Whitmire The Quaker Reader selected by Jessamyn West The Oxford Authorized KJV Bible with Apocrypha The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins The Dawkins Delusion by Alister and Joanna McGrath The Demon-Haunted World by Carl Sagan The God Argument: The Case Against Religion and For Humanism by A. C. Grayling The Language of God by Francis S. Collins Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis The Language of Science and Faith by Karl W. Giberson and Francis S. Collins I Don't Believe in Atheists by Chris Hedges Divinity of Doubt by Vincent Bugliosi The Evolution of God by Robert Wright God Is Not Great by Christopher Hitchens Tomorrow's God by Neale Donald Walsch The World As It Is by Chris Hedges Readings from St. Thomas Aquinas Faith and Reason: The Philosophy of Religion by Peter Kreeft Frances Schaffer Nancy Pearcey The Reason for God: Faith in an Age of Skepticism by Timothy Kellar Precept Upon Precept Bible studies Bright Evening Star by Madeline L'Engle Voddie Baucham (YouTube) Bart Ehrman The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine Atheism: The Case Against God by George H. Smith The Miracle of Theism: Arguments For and Against the Existence of God by J. L. Mackie What Is Atheism? by Douglas E. Krueger Spiritual Hunger: Integrating Myth and Ritual into Daily Life by Allan G. Hunter The God Virus by Darrel W. Ray Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris godisimaginary.com The Believing Brain by Michael Shermer A Shot of Faith in the Head by Mitch Stokes Miracles by C. S. Lewis A Case for Christianity by C. S. Lewis John Lennox (YouTube) Letters from a Skeptic by Greg Boyd http://agnosticmormonmom.blogspot.ca/p/my-story.html Neil deGrasse Tyson The Bible by Karen Armstrong The Battle for God by Karen Armstrong Marcus Borg John Dominic Crossan A Severe Mercy by Sheldon Vanauken Ravi Zacharias Brian Cox http://nonprophetstatus.com/ J. P. Moreland I've included Bucolic's blog since she was kind enough to share it. :) If anyone else is blogging on struggling with faith, please feel free to share.

I thought about this, albeto, and you're right. If I'm going to consider the existence of a supernatural deity, then I need to also consider the existence of other supernatural things. I'd like to reword my original two questions so that I (hopefully) take out the double standard: 1. Does anything supernatural (meaning outside the natural world) exist? (If I did decide "yes", I could then move on to differing aspects of the supernatural, one of which could be the possibility of a supernatural deity.) 2. Even if I can't find irrefutable proof one way or the other, can I find enough evidence (whatever that might mean to me) to be fairly certain one way or the other? I'd like to clarify, too, that question #1 doesn't refer to things that I can't see or that science hasn't discovered yet. My meaning of supernatural is "that which does not operate within the physical laws of the universe". And I hope that no one is offended by the way I worded things above. I know that it sounds as though I'm being flippant and trying to reduce things down too much but understand that that's the way my mind works. :) I do think that I need to answer the above two questions, for myself, before I can move on to other spiritual/faith/religion questions. Have I removed the double standard, albeto?

I've made it through all the posts and, once again, thank you to everyone. I "liked" everyone's posts because it was important to me to show that I appreciate everyone's input - and I, apparently, haven't run out of "likes" yet! :) I'm going to go back through and make a comprehensive list of all the resources that were mentioned and then include the list in a post so that if anyone was searching for a resource that was mentioned, they'll all be in one place. (Plus, I just love to organize information - betcha couldn't have guessed that from the big chem thread and the big bio thread on the high school board, huh? ;)) I especially appreciate how everyone played nice on the thread. :D I was worried about posting originally because I know how threads on faith can sometimes take a turn for the worse. So much to think about. :) I think, deep down, I know where I'll find the most peace but I just felt like I couldn't commit (at least for now) to a particular position until I'd left no stone unturned (or at least made a pretty comprehensive effort to kick over as many as I could ;)). I hope that I will always find stones to turn over and I appreciate all the advice about new stones and suggestions about possible methods of interpretation for what I find under the stones - past, present, and future. :)

Dawn - Do you happen to know which thread it was or have a link? I did a forum search for "MBTI" and came up with a number of threads but I didn't know which one was the "main" one. Or even if there was a "main" one. :)

So sorry about that, dovrar! I think when I copied and pasted, the links got messed up. Thank you to klmama for providing the correct ones. :)

Thank you again for all the responses and for the willingness to share in a public forum. :) I've taken note of all the suggestions for books, readings, and videos and will work my way through them. I've also taken in all the shared stories and experiences and they'll become part of my mulling process. :D I'm not one to "talk things out" but more to think and think and then a while later come out with my thoughts so if I don't reply to each post, please don't think I didn't like it or it wasn't important to me! I was surprised at how many of you are INTJs - I wasn't expecting that! I have done some Googling and it seems as though most INTJs are either atheist, agnostic, or UU. Again - I don't want to place a degree of importance on the MBTI that it doesn't warrant but it does give me something else to add to the mulling. A PP asked if I had taken one of the belief quizzes. I did take one a little while back. My results were (if I remember correctly): 1. atheist/agnostic 2. UU 3. Reformed Judaism (which surprised me greatly!) 4. Reformed Quakerism To further clarify, I think what I'm struggling with right now is what I call faith, not with religion. To me, faith is an internal belief system. Religion is the external trappings of that belief system. Does that make sense? If I don't know whether or not I believe in a deity, it's pretty tough for me to pick a system of how to worship one. If I don't know whether I believe that Christ existed, was the Son of God, and died for my sins, it's kind of "putting the cart before the horse" to try to decide on a particular Christian denomination. Once I get my faith (or non-faith) sorted out, then I can think about religion (or non-religion). I tend to solve problems by going back to "square one" and then moving forward from there, so that's what I've done with my faith problem. If I distill everything down to two questions, then (for me) it comes down to this: Does a supernatural (meaning outside the natural world) deity exist? Even if I can't find irrefutable proof one way or the other, can I find enough evidence (whatever that might mean to me) to be fairly certain one way or the other? A PP was wondering what I meant by certainty. I don't use the word to mean "absolutely sure" (although I'm probably not using the word correctly, in that case ;)) - I guess I meant "fairly certain". I'm assuming that most people, when asked about what they believe (or don't believe), would say that they're fairly certain that what they believe (or don't believe) is correct - otherwise why would they believe (or not believe) it? They might not have irrefutable proof that they're correct, but they have a relatively high degree of certainty. That's what I'm looking for. For me, I think peace will come if I can get to the point of "fairly certain" about what I choose to believe (or not believe). I hope I will always still have questions and still want to be reading and searching because I think questions are what makes life interesting but I would like to come to that place of "fairly certain" and then go out a-questioning from there. :) As I said above, I've taken note of everyone's suggestions in the thread. This is a list of the books that I've either read, are currently reading, or have at home and intend to read soon: The Evolution of Adam by Peter Enns The Case for the Real Jesus by Lee Strobel Imagination and Spirit: A Contemporary Quaker Reader edited by J. Brent Bill The Plain Reader: Essays on Making a Simple Life edited by Scott Savage Plain Living: A Quaker Path to Simplicity written and collected by Catherine Whitmire The Quaker Reader selected by Jessamyn West The Oxford Authorized KJV Bible with Apocrypha The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins The Dawkins Delusion by Alister and Joanna McGrath The Demon-Haunted World by Carl Sagan The God Argument: The Case Against Religion and For Humanism by A. C. Grayling The Language of God by Francis S. Collins Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis The Language of Science and Faith by Karl W. Giberson and Francis S. Collins This is a list of books that I currently have out of the library and have been glancing through. The only one I've started actually reading is "I Don't Believe in Atheists" by Chris Hedges but if any of the others strike me as helpful, they'll get a read as well. I Don't Believe in Atheists by Chris Hedges Divinity of Doubt by Vincent Bugliosi The Evolution of God by Robert Wright God Is Not Great by Christopher Hitchens Tomorrow's God by Neale Donald Walsch The World As It Is by Chris Hedges If anyone has any suggestions that I haven't listed above or haven't been mentioned in the thread already, I'd love to hear about them. In looking at my lists, I realize they do tend to be heavier on the atheist/agnostic side of things but I think that's because I tend to find most theist books very "touchy-feely" (KWIM?) and that turns me off almost immediately. It would be interesting to do a poll on the forum that looks at posters' Myers-Briggs type, religious/faith affiliation (or non-affiliation), and their most prominent method of homeschooling just to see how the numbers play out. I don't know how to do that, though. :( If someone else does, I think it would be great fun. :)

Thank you to all the respondents so far. :) It's late here so I'm off to bed but I've taken all your thoughts in and the mulling is commencing. :D I would love to hear from persons of any and all faith or spiritual view points and also from those whose journey led them away from any faith. Could I ask another question? How did you (meaning the general "you") decide what belief system (or non-belief system) was right for you? Was it just a feeling? Was it by process of elimination? Was it cultural? Was it because of history? Or was it not really a decision? Sorry - I guess that was more than one question... ;) 'Night, all. :)

I have been searching, questioning, and doubting my personal belief system for a few years now. As a bit of background... I was raised as a Baptist (not terribly strictly or consistently) and attended a fairly modern, charismatic Baptist church while I was a university student. I have gone through phases in my life where my adherence to the Christian faith was strict and other times where I think I was just paying lip-service. As I grew up, I never thought to question the existence of God - that was a fundamental given that wasn't up for debate. Now I'm questioning. For those of you who are familiar with the Myers-Briggs terminology, I am an INTJ. The I, the N, and the T are very far to those ends of the spectra. The J is closer to the middle but always comes out as a J. I don't put a lot of importance into the Myers-Briggs classification system but I find it's handy to quickly give an overview of personality. I am a very, very rational person. Emotions and emotional responses and reasons are, for the most part, not terribly useful to me. I have read books on faith from many different view points. I have had discussions with close friends. I feel like I'm further away from an answer than ever. Maybe I'm just searching for an answer to a question that can't be answered rationally - I don't know. A very good friend of mine asked what I was searching for. Proof of God? I said no - but I am searching for certainty. Does my differentiating between proof and certainty make sense? Bleh - I feel like I'm rambling and not making any sense so I'll just cut to the chase... Is anyone out there willing to share how they reconcile their extreme rationality with faith? Is it possible to reconcile extreme rationality with faith? If so, which faith? And how? (I keep re-reading my post and trying to figure out if it's going to come off as offensive to anyone. I express myself in writing very badly. I truly, truly mean no offense to anyone. Really. :))

I just did a quick Google search and found a Teacher's Resource Guide to go with the text: https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDEQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fresourcesdev.ck12.org%2F15209b994581ebd831b93bb1807fa25a.pdf&ei=FM7zUcCeA8rIqwHIoIHIBQ&usg=AFQjCNG1w3444SDCCxfSN3qrjcnVyysSJg&sig2=jg2Hc0rRTfDrLsgnI4sG4g&bvm=bv.49784469,d.aWM It has lesson pacing ideas in the first few pages and the chapters are broken down into individual lessons.

I don't - sorry! Have you tried to do a search of the boards?

Here's the blurb that I wrote in the big chem thread: *The Home Scientist sells a Honours Chem Lab kit with lab manual that can be correlated to many different chem programs (the lab manual is free to download even if you don't purchase the kit) http://www.thehomesc.../ck01-main.html He also sells a simplified and less expensive version of the kit meant for Standard (or Regular) Chemistry which also has a free, downloadable lab manual: http://www.thehomesc...ck01b-main.html NOTE: The free lab manual that comes with this kit is NOT the same as the Illustrated Guide to Home Chemistry Experiments (by the same author). This kit (and the free lab manual) will give a lab component for a first-year high school chemistry course. The Illustrated Guide to Home Chemistry Experiments (which can be purchased through Amazon) is meant to give the equivalent of the lab component for a two-year high school chemistry course and would require more equipment and chemicals than are included in this kit. Is this the info you needed?

Yes - chapters 1-15 would be a reg chem course, as far as I can tell. :) In Weeks 22 and 24 of the schedule, though, she has the students go to other sites to learn about thermochemistry and then work problems. (I can't see where Zumdahl does any thermochem in this text but I don't own the text to look.) I don't know if one would want to include this in a reg chem course - I suppose it would depend on how math-y the student is. :) The Gourmet Lab book looks interesting. I couldn't see it all but I think you're definitely on to something there if your dd likes to cook. As to whether these labs would be enough, I think you'd have to check with your state regulations on what's required to grant a high school science credit. I noticed on the NSTA site that this book is recommended for students in Grades 6-12 so it might be considered "light" for a high school chem credit but I'm not from the States so I could be way off. :) If your daughter won't be going on in science or health care and your state doesn't have a problem with non-traditional labs, then you should be good to go.

I believe the text and syllabus you're looking at is for an honours chem course. Is that what you and your dd are wanting? If you are wanting to do an honours chem course, I would urge you to do "real" chem labs - I just don't think that honours chem lends itself well to kitchen chem-type labs. Just my opinion, though - others may disagree. :) I don't know if you've already decided on using Zumdahl with your student but you might want to consider using the Advanced Chemistry course from Mr. Q's Science. Here's his description: "This Advanced Chem book will prepare the student to master the basics of high school chemistry. As a bonus, nearly all of the hands-on labs involve the use of food." Here's a link: http://www.eequalsmcq.com/CSAdvChemChapterDwnld.htm His writing style can be goofy and doesn't appeal to everyone but his chemistry is solid and it might be a better fit for a non-science student. You can download the first chapter for free to see if you and your student like it. The whole curriculum (student and teacher books) is $50 plus printing costs. Many people don't print out the text - only the worksheets, labs, and exams. You'd also have to buy the cooking supplies but at least you'd get food out of it. :) I don't necessarily recommend this curriculum for a student that will be headed into a STEM career because I think it's important for those students to have experience in actual lab settings and learn lab skills but Mr. Q's course would be perfect for a student who wants a basic high school chem course. Just some thoughts. :) Many of the labs you listed above would be difficult to replicate with kitchen chemistry-type labs. The above labs are investigating pretty specific chemistry concepts and involve accurate measuring equipment and substantial calculations. If you're set on this program, I'll think some more and see what I can come up with. I admit - I'm not very good at thinking outside the box and so others would probably be far better at coming up with alternatives for you but I'll give it my best shot if this is the plan you want to go with. :)

Hi dovrar, If you don't mind my asking... Are you looking for kitchen chemistry alternative because of the cost issue or for another reason? Is your student planning to go on into a STEM field at college? Or into any of the health care fields? I would better be able to help you find alternatives if you could provide a little more info. :) Connie

Hi VanClanMomma! I don't have any personal experience with Apologia or the DIVE CDs so hopefully someone else can chime in. Welcome to the Forum!

Adding a new resource originally given by HodgesSchool. :) (I'll also put this in the "Resources" post up thread on the first page): Just ran across these demonstration labs from MIT that are well produced, showy, and also quite seriously academic: http://ocw.mit.edu/h...rations/videos/ (And if you haven't seen the Chem Lab Boot Camp that I've mentioned before, you might enjoy it, too. It is much more narrative than scientific, but I found it both inspiring and reassuring. http://ocw.mit.edu/h...-lab-boot-camp/ )

It depends where you are in Canada. In Quebec, no, I would not think the majority would be of English descent. Here's a fairly long article detailing franco/anglo relations in Canada, if anyone is interested. http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/articles/francophoneanglophone-relations I am not from Quebec and so someone from Quebec would have a far better understanding of the situation. I think the reasons for the reactions of the townspeople are complicated but, overall, I imagine they are shocked, sad, angry, and overwhelmed. My heart goes out to them. May they find some bit of peace and solace in the midst of this terrible disaster.

Here's an analysis piece from the CBC's website on the PR gaffes made by the CEO: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2013/07/11/f-lac-megantic-quebec-train-explosion-public-relations.html

HodgesSchool, do you mind if I list your links in the pinned Chemistry thread? Credited to you, of course. :)

:iagree: Another vote for Pandia Press!