Yes- I've heard of Apologia for Elementary, but I'm leaning in a direction that gives an overview of different sciences instead of focusing on one particular subject. I like the WTM outline of rotating between life sciences, chemistry, physics and whatever else I can't seem to remember right now. Beth

I'm looking for a biology program for 3rd grade. I would like it to be heavy on the experiments and not too expensive. I like the WTM outline, but I think it may be a little young for a 3rd grader? I would like a Christian based program, but all of them seem too simplistic (I'm thinking CKE biology). Any suggestions? Beth

Our library has been very underused and mostly gets carted to each meeting in a cart with wheels. I want people to see what we have. I'm not sure how people are going to get the books other than letting me know and me bringing it to a meeting (or coming to my home). I just got a lot of chapter books through my husband's work place so the library has tripled in size. I just want people to know what's in the library. I'm not even sure how the checkout thing will go. Beth

I'm looking into getting a library catalog system for our homeschool group. I would like to have a check-out book feature and web access. Also, is it possible to have a system that allows me to catalog my own books as a private venture and catalog the homeschool books as a public venture? Mostly though I am looking for the homeschool group's library. Beth

What about doing 1/2 of the lesson plan Jessica at www.triviumacademy.blogspot.com has developed. I think it lasts about 18 weeks. She has lots of good recommendations for books and videos each week and has co-ordinated the experiments to go with each week. You can get the plan here: www.lulu.com/content/1026490. Beth

What about continent lapbooks? They look pretty comprehensive to me and make school a little different. I agree with the "trip around the world" - you could do a nice geography emphasis with those books. http://www.handsofachild.com/shop/Search.aspx?k=continent Beth

I agree- the two programs do appeal to different people for different reasons. I just wanted to make the comparison in case someone was really wanting to do TOG, but felt the cost was too high. I just wanted to compare for those who are considering both based on cost. We aren't basing it on cost either, but when I looked at the K-12 cost of both programs, it really made me realize my desire to do TOG really isn't that bad cost wise when compared to another program I really like. Beth

I think I'm getting all my information correct on this - If I'm wrong, feel free to correct it! There's a lot of people that are thrown off from the cost of TOG and I thought I would just compare (since these are the 2 programs I'm considering). Neither of these costs includes books. MFW cost K-12 (just for TM's not books - this is recommended TM's needed to complete the program and all literature and writing components) K - $105 1st - $150 Adventures - $100 ECC-Mod (5 yrs)$500 H.S. $540 (this includes TM, and literature/composition supplement and tests) 7th-8th Progony Press guides (4 guides) - $68 4 levels of writing strands - $80 TOTAL for MFW K-12 $1543 Tapestry of Grace: 4 years of TM's - $900 Writing Aids - $50 Map Aids (4 years) - $100 Evaluations Rhetoric - $50 Total cost for K-12 TOG - $1100 I included the Evaluations for Rhetoric since they are included in MFW as high school tests. I also know that you need to add some sort of phonics program to TOG that MFW includes. Also, MFW includes math and all the books in the K and 1st program. I took the cost of the basic program. MFW also includes all science up to grade 7. TOG on the other hand includes literature and writing which MFW supplements with Writing Strands and Progony Press guides in 7th-8th grade. So, you can see that the two programs are VERY similar in cost when you add in the extras from MFW that TOG doesn't add. When you add science to TOG, they come out almost equal. Just thought it would be good for someone to see the actual costs. I know a lot of people buy the books with the program and TOG does have a lot more books that are specific to the program. Hope this helps some decisions! Beth

I think another poster said it best when they said just don't look at one year at a time. Go over the whole program. I personally like where TOG is headed and what the goals seem to be for students educated through their program. They have the same goals as I do academically. That being said, I don't know if I could have handled TOG right away. It's taken me three years just to realize what we want out of a living book curriculum. I think MFW is an easier introduction into a living books not workbooks curriculum. Beth

I'm thinking ds will be able to handle the reading when we get there. It will be a lot more than he's used to, so that will be a change. I have a little bit to get him ready for it. Beth

When your child hits 4th grade, do they start to do ALL the upper grammar history level reading? I'm wondering because I'm not sure I can handle both UG and LG history readings. The independent learning aspect does appeal to me. Also, what do you usually use for science? Beth

I too like the look of both programs. I thought I was a MFW person all the way, but now that I'm looking at starting the history cycle, I'm considering TOG. The reasons I'm looking at it again is a friend of mine is using it next year (and she thinks it's very doable) who will be having a 2nd set of twins any day with 4 older children, the oldest of whom will be 8. So, I figure if she thinks it's doable, I could do it too. Here's what I think are the differences (this is coming from samples on the websites). I think MFW is a very gentle approach (Charlotte Mason) that does get learning accomplished very well. It's easy for a busy mother who really just needs open and go. I see TOG as being more of a "prep school" curriculum. It challenges students academically earlier. It's for the type of mom who likes to plan. I also think it does a better job at including all age levels (MFW suggests a seperate program for K and 1st). I also won't have to do the same curriculum with my oldest when he cycles back in the 3rd -8th. Yes, it does have suggestions to make it academically more appropriate, but your child is doing the same curriculum with mostly the same books. Personally, I'm more drawn to TOG for our future history cycle. I like to plan and have a child who LOVES hands on stuff. I also want to challenge him at a different level with literature choices than I think he would do with history readings. I like the fact that they have activity sheets for the literature choices. I like that the writing is integrated with help to teach it (MFW has you do a seperate writing program in 4th grade). I'm going to the library anyway for MFW - it's no different with TOG. Mostly, TOG keeps coming back to me and I'm drawn to it which may just be God's leading. Beth

All the above reasons PLUS -I can't do foreign language accents so great. I can learn Latin along with my kids and not have to worry about the accent. I'm a little with Susan Wise Bauer in that you really can't learn a foreign language without talking to someone who can speak it regularly. Latin avoids this issue in that no one really speaks it (other than some church litergy). Beth

What about this one? www.lulu.com/content/1026490? It's written by Jessica at Trivium Academy and is cheap for the content. She's simple in the approach, but you'll get LOTS of hands on experiments and lots of book suggestions with video suggestions mixed in. You'll spend your money on good books rather than packaged curriculum and it will be a good year in science. Beth

Do you "need" a seperate Bible curriculum? That's a thing I like about MFW - although the Bible is lite, it does make an impact. I'm not really liking the science with MFW - I always want to add a bit more. So, I wouldn't mind getting a seperate science curriculum - the Bible I like to be integrated. Does TOG have integrated Bible history and God's view of the world? Beth

Just wondering...I'm a person who is leaning toward the more academic side of Classical Education. While I do appreciate Charlotte Mason and her ideas, I tend to want to go more academic. We are doing MFW right now and while I love it, I'm wanting it to be more rigorous in the writing components mostly and the books they read. I'm finding myself adding a lot of rigor to MFW to make it what I like. I am drawn toward Veritas Press, but really don't see how it could work for multiple aged kids. We like unit studies around here. So...I'm not scared of planning (I kinda like it in fact) and am wondering if TOG would be a better fit. Also, you just include science and math with it correct? Beth

My husband got it because they wanted his publishing house to advertise on it. I think it's a little on the corney side. The "chance" cards have things like getting money according to the size of your family or winning spelling bees. Instead of railroads, you have various family vehicles including a "big family bus". Instead of go to jail, you go to court (unless of course you're a HSLDA member). Ds likes to play it. They were smart when they did that game. They got money from advertisers to put spaces on the board and they got to sell the game to ordinary people too. A "double" payout. Very smart. Beth

Yes-I've tried the wonderbra-they don't come small enough. SIGH.... Beth

I could do a sports bra, but it would literally make me flat chested. I tend to gain weight in my stomach and thighs so we have this pear thing going on. It was really sad when I was nursing, I was still a 34 A. Try getting a nursing bra for that size! Beth

Can we talk about bras for those of us who are less endowed? I am finding it hard to find a bra that fits. I don't want to shop in the pre-teen section, but am desperate. The platex nearly A's don't really do anything for me- is that all there is? I would like a push up bra, but when you don't have much to "push-up", you get a little stuck in the choices. I'm probably at a 34AA. I want to be a grown up! I stopped shopping in the pre-teen section after I got married. I don't want to go back! Beth

Just wondering- I've been thinking about this too. HGTA seems to be visually distracting for me. It was the same with "I can do all things". I never made it through the program and ds got bored with it just because it was all drawing and coloring. Is HGTA the same? Drawing and coloring? Or are there other mediums of art (like clay, crafts, ect.)? Beth

I've used savefile.com. It seems to keep everything correct. Beth

I second All About Spelling. This is for a child who is not a natural speller - great reader, but not so good at spelling. We've tried (1)- having lists of words to memorize. Ds memorized them and then forgot them. (2)- Rod and Staff spelling - 2 workbooks pages and a list - ds memorized them and then forgot them (we lasted 3 weeks because I could see a whole year of memorizing lists and retaining nothing). (3) All About Spelling. It has weekly dictation based on what words the child should know so it gets retained! Also, if he makes a mistake in spelling, I remind him of the rule and he corrects his own mistake. It works and it's easy to implement. Beth

lots of book suggestions: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31141 Beth

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n2/science-curriculum-samples I was considering this for my 2nd grader, but it's too textbooky for me. But, if you're looking for that, it may fit. Beth