Is there no jumping at the 4-H shows?

Where are you folks?? Lessons everywhere around us are all in the $55.00 - $65.00 range. I have looked around for months and can't find anywhere that has safe school horses and quality trainers. Maybe I need to drive a little further out? Not everyone around me comes from Texas oil, right?!? I looked into 4-H as recommended by people on the board. We went to a 4-H meeting at the beginning of the school year and were told that you had to be at least 9 to do the Horse Project (mounted activities). And once you are of age, you have to have your own mount (horse) AND transportation for participating. We don't own any tack (saddle, bridle, etc.), and it would cost us money to put a leased pony on our property (additional fencing, food, etc.). How would doing a cheaper lease (say $200.00/month) on our property save us any money when we have to buy tack, fencing, food, transportation, vet bills and pay for the lease? Help me out here. I would LOVE for my kids to do 4-H. Everyone could do it and they could branch out to other animals as they get older...and it is one activity for the entire family. 4-H folks, please chime in! I really would like to make 4-H work. And my kids aren't old enough to completely care for the pony on their own. Our chickens, yes, but a horse? I don't know about that...maybe I am wrong. I didn't grow up with horses, so I don't know. All I know is that I have no time to care for a horse. It's nice to leave that animal at the barn. :) OK, here's a funny. I asked ds8 if he would consider doing ballet for his sport. Boys can take lessons for free at my dd's ballet studio. We told him we would pay him $20.00 a lesson...he said not in a million years. At least I tried!! LOL! If we dropped the half lease, we could do a lesson on a school horse 1x a week and it would be in our budget. That's the plan as of now. I will keep looking for another barn and asking others how to make 4-H work. So... ds8 - HBR 1x/wk, chess every other week, piano with mom (free) dd6 - ballet 1 class 1x/wk (and only 1 performance per year), violin ds 4 - piano w/mom. Only violin and piano in the summer and a couple of sport camps for the 3. This will be our last semester at Waldorf. I really appreciate the responses! Thanks again!

She would drop ballet in a heartbeat if she could ride horses instead. That would help streamline things, but horses simply cost too much money for our family. Lessons on a schooling horse are $65.00/lesson. With my son's half lease and lessons, we are spending $700.00/month on horseback riding...that's just one child. And I'm not sure if you have done any shows yet, but that bill nearly made my husband pass out. My son will not be a professional hunter jumper. We cannot support that goal and will not fund it. If he wants to ride for pleasure, that's fine, so we think once a week until he is old enough to work for lessons is being very generous to him. It definitely isn't fair to his sister, but that's the way it worked out. She loves ballet, too, so she's OK. And we will let her take a lesson for her birthday present in 2015. :) Besides, my son's riding makes me so nervous. I couldn't imagine 2 in horses. I wish DH and I knew more about HBR before we let him start taking lessons. I would have steered him another direction. Every time he goes over one of those jumps, I gain a new gray hair. He loves it though, so what can I do?

It does seem like a long time, but we break it up. She understands that her pieces are advanced, so she's willing to do the work. The time flies, really. She loves it more than her brother who practices an hour on piano every day. She has a bead jar for incentives. If she gets whiny, we stop. And it's more like 45 minutes for a.m. practice and 30 for p.m. practice when I write it all out. :) a.m. practice is: 5 minutes tuning 20 minutes of etudes, 1 review Kreutzer for 10 minutes, 1 new Kreutzer for 10 minutes (water break) 20 minutes on concerto (current concerto is Accolay in A minor) done with a.m. practice. outside for recess. p.m. practice (after snack time) is: 5 minutes scales 5 minutes sight reading or theory book 10 minutes current short piece 10 minutes review pieces. We cycle through these because there are too many to play in a day. I help with a.m. practice. For p.m. practice, she performs her review pieces and works on current short piece in the kitchen while I cook dinner, clean, do laundry, etc. And I asked her teacher to cut out her finger exercises book so we can cut down on practice time, lol!

We don't want horses...only animals we can eat. (Horrible!!) The horses will eat the cows' grass, too. We're on 5 acres and have cows and chickens right now. We want to add some turkeys and maybe a few pigs in the future. Ds already has chickens and an egg business with a steady clientele. :) You said you didn't know how I was doing it...I'm not doing it very well, let me tell you! That's why I'm here asking for input. :) Thank you for your advice. You know how crazy my life is! :)

Yes, and I will suggest this to DH. So HBR 1x a week, piano w/ mom and chess every other week. Nothing but piano and camps in the summer. Thank you. :)

Thank you all for the advice. I'm feeling a little better about managing their extracurricular activities. Sometimes I just feel bad that I can't give them everything they want. I guess that goes with the parenting territory. They are learning lessons by me setting some boundaries, though. I think this should be a good plan: Keep ds8 with chess teacher 1x a week since he comes to our house, is inexpensive, provides an opportunity for father/son to do something together, and the other kids can join in in the future. Do horseback riding 1x a week at the barn's group lesson. Continue piano, but give a couple of days as light days so he can work on chess w/father. Only do horseback riding and chess during the school year. In the summer, do piano and some sports camps (tennis, swimming). Keep dd6 in violin and one ballet class 1x a week. Only one performance at the end of the school year. Only do ballet during the school year. In the summer, do violin and sports camps with siblings. In the summertime, teach the kids some ensemble pieces for fun (bluegrass, etc.). There's her ensemble playing! I love the parent/tot class...it really is for me. Tea time and crafts with my littles. It's at a Waldorf school, and it's just a great reminder for me to slow down and love my little ones. Maybe this will have to be our last semester of it, though. This plan will make DH happy (thinking the pocketbook and a wife at home to keep the kitchen a little cleaner) and will give the kids an opportunity to continue with something they like. I won't be running like a mad woman anymore. We can get back making school work and the farm the priorities. We will reassess each year and tweak things as needed. Thanks again!!!

I'm hoping to group the kids in some activities, for sure. I'm already getting nervous about everyone doing a separate activity. Just too much driving for me. Thank you! :)

Thank you, thank you, thank you! I really like your view on extracurricular activities.

I needed to be reminded of this. Thank you. :)

Chess teacher is a chemistry and microbiology professor who plays and teaches chess for fun. He comes to our home in the evening 1 day a week. Ds8 already beats husband in over 50% of their chess matches...and my husband is a smart fellow. (It's OK to laugh...I won't tell my husband.) :) As for ds6, ballet is her social outlet. She gets to dance with friends in tutus...definitely more fun than practicing harmonic minor scales. :) I'm thinking keep both, but limit ballet to 1 class instead of 2. This means no orchestra, though. Can't do ballet and violin and orchestra. (Orchestra or some ensemble playing was going to be an extension of violin. She could do that in the future if she chooses to drop ballet.) Still unsure about ds8, though... Thank you for your input!

I have 4 kids, ds8, dd6, ds4, ds1. The older 2 are doing extracurriculars, younger 2 are in a parent/tot class 1x a week. On parent/tot class day, the older 2 go to some home school classes on the same campus (painting/crocheting/music). Just fun stuff for social interaction. This works well for the family because I can give a little attention to the younger ones and have the older ones do social stuff once a week. In addition to our 1 morning out a week, oldest child does piano (with me), horseback riding 2x a week (with trainer) and chess lessons 1x a week (with tutor). There is homework with chess and it sometimes replaces piano practice time, which I personally don't like. Husband loves to do chess with oldest, and I like that they do something together and want to support that. Oldest is quite the brain, too, and wants to be a doctor as his profession. Chess is really good for him. He absolutely loves horseback riding, though, and it is his first choice when it comes to his extracurriculars, but it is too expensive for our family. Second oldest child does 2 ballet classes and violin. She is very advanced with the violin, and practices 45 minutes in the morning and 45 minutes in the evening. Ballet is 1x a week, back to back classes, but there are several performances a year and lots of rehearsals to prepare for performances. We had a horrible practice this afternoon because she was so tired from 3 hours of ballet and performances today. There's another performance on Friday. :( DH and I want to streamline the extracurricular activities, preferably 1 extracurricular per child. The original plan was to have each child do music and a sport of their choice, but this is proving to be too much for me...and the little ones aren't even doing any extracurriculars. The extracurriculars we would choose as the parents are not the ones our children would choose. Oldest would choose horseback riding over anything, and we could make that work 1x a week, but he benefits so much more from chess. (And my husband is allergic to horses and hates them.) Second oldest would rather dance around in fairy costumes than practice violin, but she is so good on the violin that we would hate to let her choose something that requires very little skill right now. She really likes the violin, but it is getting to be more difficult for her. We were thinking of compromising. Here are the options: For oldest child: Option #1: Horseback riding 1x a week, continue chess and piano, but alternate days of practice (so he can have some downtime). The problem is, he is still doing 3 extracurriculars....sigh. Option #2: Chess and piano in the school year. HBR and piano in the summertime. Option #3: Choose any or all of the extracurriculars our family will participate in . Parents choose tennis, chess and music. Still could be in 3 extracurriculars, though. For second oldest: #1: Ballet 1x a week, no second class (so less performances and rehearsals). Continue violin. #2: Violin in the school year. Princess dance camp and violin in summertime. #3 Violin, chess and/or tennis. I feel like a horrible mother. I just can't keep up with all of the running. I have a home to take care of and a farm to run. DH doesn't care if they follow their passions. He's only concerned with how much money he is spending (according to him, horseback riding is a sport for rich people) and what is going to get them college scholarships. He thinks they can ride bikes and hike for exercise. Or, we could choose tennis for a family sport. (ds4 wants to play tennis.) So everyone can do either tennis, music or chess...that's what our family does, nothing else. I want them to do something they like AND something that will be good for their future, but I just can't keep up (thus my feelings of being a bad mother). We simply can't do it all. How does your family view extracurriculars? How do you manage them with a large family? Which option would you choose in my situation? Thanks for the input.

Ruth in NZ, please let your son know that I thought his performance was just beautiful and very expressive! What a beautiful bow arm!! Thank you for sharing that video with us...it really brought joy to my heart. I know how hard they had to work to pull that together, especially with such musicality and expression. Bravo to the trio!! Getting together for chamber music is a wonderful suggestion. I will definitely pursue this option with my dd, especially since her teacher has students her age. Thank you for the suggestion! Donna, I'm glad you chimed in...I appreciate your perspective and will take your advice to heart. Thanks again...

wintermom, I hear you. Personally, I wouldn't ask any of my piano students to make such huge leaps in their repertoire. It is not my preference for my dd to make such a huge leap with violin, but I am not a professional violinist and I have given over the reigns to her new teacher. Maybe he has seen students do this before and he knows she is capable. I don't know. This is one of the reasons I wanted to stay with Suzuki. I really like the incremental approach, and there is still so much she could learn from Suzuki. Sure, the Suzuki repertoire isn't perfect and there are some holes in Suzuki, too. But going from Bach Double to Accolay is a huge leap. In all fairness, her new teacher did ask her to buy 37 pieces last week (short pieces that are probably more appropriate for shorter attention spans). And the Kreutzer etudes, at least the first few, are on par with Book 4. Maybe the goal is to build up the repertoire and strength at this age, so when she is older and more mature things like phrasing, dynamics, etc. can be worked on with ease? I am thinking this is the goal. Certainly, my dd at 6 will not play Accolay with as much beauty and passion as Perlman. But after several years of playing it, will it be much easier for her to add those finishing touches when she's more mature?

I should also note that she is on board with going to the Conservatory teacher and knows how hard it is going to be. We started a bead jar for good repetitions, reading, etc. Once it's full, she can go buy a wedding Barbie. She will do anything for a wedding Barbie. :) So, she's still 6 and I haven't turned into Amy Chua yet! :)

We're going with the Conservatory teacher. We have had two lessons, and they were intense. He clearly doesn't have any regard for her age...I could hardly keep up with what he was teaching her. But what he is teaching her is nothing that I have ever experienced in my life. He understands the violin more than anyone I have ever seen. He plays everything for her, and relates everything to theory...then technique...then more theory...then he plays it again. Then he shows her how to practice it, how to memorize, etc. He's truly amazing. We went home the first week and did some intensive sight reading. She has improved so much, and it has been only 2 weeks. It's really crazy. She read the 2nd Kreutzer etude with a little help from me, and she is memorizing it this week. First two pages of Accolay are done, too. This is going to be really, really hard, but the teacher keeps assuring me that she will be able to do it. He has a couple of other younger students, a 5 year old and a 7 year old. They are both playing far more advanced pieces that my dd. If she has any sort of talent, I think this is the teacher to cultivate that gift. Pray for my dd...and for me!! (I'm scared!) Thank you all for the wonderful advice. :)

Stella, I wrote down the date. :) Thank you! :) We're going the orchestra route. I think she will like orchestra. lewelma, I appreciate your responses. Yes, the violin is a tricky instrument...so many facets that need to be addressed. We will be seeing the Conservatory teacher tonight for a lesson and will talk with him about some of the points you brought up. I'll also ask about exams. She doesn't have a problem with the accompaniment part because I usually accompany her with all of her pieces. (Nice to have a mom who is a pianist.) I will update with what happens at lesson tonight. We worked on the first page of Accolay this week and she learned it. (I am really surprised that she was able to do it!)

So many great responses...I cannot thank you all enough!! (I love this forum!!) To answer a few questions... She is on the last piece in Book 4, the Bach Double 2nd violin part. She'll be done with it in a couple of weeks. We will spend December reviewing all of Book 4 and move on to Book 5. She wants to play the Bohm Perpetual Motion for the Honors Concert at Suzuki camp this summer. She loves that piece. If we switch to the Conservatory teacher, though, we won't be going to Suzuki Institute this year. :( (I'm really sad about that. I love Suzuki camp.) The drive is an hour to and an hour back for lesson with the Conservatory teacher, once a week. That's not a problem, though. She can't get enough of Ramona Quimby on Audible. :) dmmetler, you hit the nail on the head. Her reading is no where near as good as her aural skills. It is a struggle for her to make it through I Can Read Music. She will do it, but she would much rather listen and play by ear...anything by ear, not only Suzuki pieces. Suzuki has given her a great ear, but she is a typical 6 year old when it comes to reading. The Conservatory teacher asked about her reading and I told him it was really behind her playing level. He said, "Oh, we'll get her caught up in no time." I don't think it will be that easy. He does have experience working with very advanced youngsters. Perhaps I should talk with him about this in more detail next week. I am thinking we should do the Suzuki teacher for a year and focus on reading more than the Suzuki repertoire. Maybe join a youth orchestra at the lowest level and give her an opportunity to balance out? I did ask her last night, though, if she really wanted to learn Accolay, even though it is going to be really, really, really hard to learn/read. She said that she wanted to at least give it a try. (I loved that answer.) We may go to the Conservatory teacher for one lesson and talk with him about a plan...what would he like her to be with reading, can we attend master classes, etc. I think we need to create a plan for this coming year. The advice on finding a good teacher and not a method is wonderful. I needed that reminder. Thank you! Last, I haven't turned into Amy Chua yet...she had a playdate on Wednesday, and she takes a painting class, a singing class and ballet for fun! :) Thanks to everyone for your input!

I am a huge fan of Suzuki, especially for violin and other string instruments. My 6 year old dd has been studying Suzuki violin with me for the last two years. She is progressing rather quickly, and I think it is time for her to study with a professional. (My primary instrument is piano, university trained. I played violin in college and did some Suzuki training for fun, but I really am a pianist.) In the best Suzuki studio in our town, she would be the 2nd most advanced student should she join this studio. The next most advanced student is a 16 year old boy, playing a piece that she will be learning in a couple of months. The reason I mention this is because I am not a fan of my dd being the best student in a studio or at Suzuki institutes. I think it is good for her to see others playing at a higher level than her. I want her to be inspired by the more advanced pieces. I had her audition for a traditional violin teacher in a neighboring city, about an hour away. He teaches at a major Conservatory of Music in the next neighboring city. He is the teacher to go to if you want your child to play at a very high level. She would play very well under his tutelage, but I am not sure if this is what my husband and I should be doing with our 6 year old. She loves playing the violin, and has an exceptional ear. I want her in an environment where she will get the highest level of training and be surrounded by other high level musicians, but also have that environment be a loving and nurturing environment (a la Suzuki). Do I take my dd to the Suzuki teacher who will be nice and teach her fairly well, or do I take her to the Conservatory teacher who wants her to start the Accolay Concerto in A Minor and Kreutzer? (My goodness, she's 6). Am I limiting her by considering her age and with wanting her to enjoy playing? She really is advanced for her age, and she had to be invited after an informal audition with the Conservatory teacher. Am I passing up a great opportunity by not taking her to him? I don't want to feed her to the wolves and regret it later, but I don't want to limit her because I am sheltering her. (But a 6 year old should be sheltered, right??) I am trying to block out my experience in the music department in college, but this has been hard for me to do. The best students there (and the ones with the most opportunities) were the ones who started early and were asked to perform above and beyond their abilities from a young age. They rose to the occasion, though, and it paid off. I could wait to start her with the Conservatory teacher when she is older, but will I regret it in the future? Ugh.. Last, I contacted the Suzuki teacher and he said that she would outgrow his studio very quickly. He recommended she go to the Conservatory teacher. We could go to him (Suzuki teacher), but he said there is only so much he could offer a student of her potential. Please advise!! I don't know what to do. Thank you!!

If you choose to take a break before getting back into homeschooling, I would recommend you spend some time reading about teaching math. Knowing and Teaching Elementary Mathematics by Liping Ma was an eye opener for me. Between that book and the Right Start Mathematics curriculum, I finally feel comfortable teaching math to my children. And if that is too much for you, a program like Math U See could be a good fit for you two. You can do this. :) Take the next few months to breathe. You don't have to do what the charter is asking you to do...you could do something even better for your child. Good luck!

I should say, I was thinking of integrating for science classes. Anyone successful at doing this? What about math?

No academic community for us, either, and I really yearn for one. One for my children and one for myself. When my older children were around 1-3 years old, I would take them to a Waldorf playgroup. I have a 1 year old and a 3 year old that are getting neglected with the older two homeschooling. I have decided to take the younger two to a Waldorf playgroup at the local Waldorf school and let the older two go to a few enrichment classes while I'm with the little ones. They will be taking a painting class, a knitting class and a seasonal songs and games class. Total enrichment and non-academic. Hopefully, they will have fun being with other kids and it will be sufficient for now. I really, really, really would like for them to be in an academic peer group at some point, though. Has anyone tried to integrate in a school for a few of their children's classes for academic purposes? I wonder if that could be an option in the future. (I know Waldorf would be 'no no' for younger kids in older classes, though.)

Also, when you say there is a lot to learn from preparing for a recital, what do you mean by that? What do they learn during the recital prep phase that is different from what they learned when they originally learned the piece? Fortunately it is only nerve-wracking for me, and I don't talk to DS about it... ;-) DS has good ol' Suzuki nerves of steel!! So, before he plays a piece, he should say the name of the piece, the composer, the key, the basic chords of the piece (usually I, IV, V), and his starting notes. This is before he plays the pieces. He should be able to do this for all of his pieces. He also should be able to start at the beginning of different sections of the piece, so in case he stumbles, he has a starting point that isn't the very beginning. He should practice playing the last two measures of the piece, the the last section, then the second to last section, all the way to the beginning. The pieces should be like a book and each "chapter" is a section. Once that chapter is done, move on to the next. Recitals teach you how to organize the music. It is a conscious act when performing, and the mind must be actively engaged in how everything is organized. HTH

I apologize for taking forever to respond to your questions! (Major construction going on at the house and very little time for the computer) I hope that the advice that others gave has helped ease your mind a bit...lots of great advice. I know how difficult recitals can be on the parents. :) Also, I can totally relate to getting the recital done before Christmas music is introduced. Here's a thought...how about asking the teacher if he can skip playing Christmas music this year so he can prepare for the recital? It's really hard to gauge if a child can be ready for a recital in a matter of a few months or not. It really depends on the child, their practice habits, their listening habits, and their understanding of how their pieces are organized. Your teacher will know best. Think of the actual recital as a learning opportunity for future recitals. If your son plays well, have him list the things that went well, and why they went well. If things don't go as smoothly as expected, how can he prepare better for next time? This recital sounds like a great opportunity for him to do an analysis of his pieces. He can copy a page, cut out the sections, highlight themes or motifs in different colors, throw the sections in a bag, pull them out and play them separately. He could research the composers and try to find out when and why pieces were written. He could learn about breathing techniques that could help him during a performance. He could watch videos of performers and comment on stage performance - what did he like, dislike? Some performers interact with their audience, some are quiet. There's a lot to learn. Does he still play his Book 1 pieces? If so, how easily do they come to him? The Book 2 pieces should come as easily as the Book 1 pieces. If you are nervous about the performance, it's for a reason. :) I would wait for recital until he is pretty far into Book 3. Suzuki is hard...boy, it is tough! But those Suzuki kids know their stuff and understand what it takes to actually play a piece. You're doing a great job, Mom, by supporting him through this! My 1 year old won't stop biting my behind...I think it's time to give him some attention. :) Oh, have you added up how many minutes it takes to perform all of Book 2? (I can't remember...I did Book 2 training over a decade ago and I don't really have a studio anymore.) Let us know how it goes!!

Have you talked with his teacher about this? There are techniques for memorizing music. He needs to do an analysis of each of his pieces, meaning he needs to know what key the piece is in, if there is a change of key in a section (and why that change in key), what the common themes are, how the piece is organized (rondo form, sonata form), dynamic,etc. There's also muscle memory that needs to become second nature. And as a Suzuki student, he should be listening to his pieces everyday. Does the teacher require listening? Did he learn Book 1 by ear or by reading? It sounds like Book 2 was learned by reading. If he were my child (or student), I would not let him perform a Book 2 recital until he has played those pieces for a very, very, very long time. Really, there is no rush to get the recital done...when he can play any piece, and not in order, and in sections, and can play the pieces with absolute ease and confidence, then he will have a successful recital. You really want that to be the end goal, a successful recital, and not just getting done with Book 2. There is a lot to learn from preparing for a recital, and your son will benefit so much from the experience. Just make sure it is a positive experience and not a nerve wracking one. I hope this helped you...let him take some time to have the pieces become second nature and he won't forget them. Good luck!!