Quiver0f10 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 On Feb 13th. I will update once we know something. I know this isn't going to "fix" him, but I feel like we doing something in the right direction. Thanks for the help on the old boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie in AR Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Dr. V in FS? My two dds have had visual therapy through her office. My older dd is on "maintenance" now and doesn't have to go back for 6 months. My younger dd has once-a-month appointments, and we do therapy here at home 3 times per week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiver0f10 Posted January 18, 2008 Author Share Posted January 18, 2008 Dr. V in FS? My two dds have had visual therapy through her office. My older dd is on "maintenance" now and doesn't have to go back for 6 months. My younger dd has once-a-month appointments, and we do therapy here at home 3 times per week. No this Dr is located in C on the other side of B, which I think is closer than FS. I am hoping that he has no issues, but if he does I hope we can do some stuff at home too. Have you noticed improvement with the VT? Did your ds have reading issues associated with his vision problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie in AR Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Visual therapy has allowed her to be a completely different student academically. Before we started VT, she was struggling terribly with reading. I kept thinking everything would soon kick in for her since I knew she was a very bright girl, and I had read lots of posts stating that sometimes dc just need more time before their brains are ready to become efficient with reading. (And I'm sure that is true for many children.) She had just turned 9 and was entering 4th grade when I decided it was time to figure things out. I knew something was wrong; I just didn't know what it was. Her older brothers had never shown any of the signs that she did. She had some symptoms of dyslexia so I started researching there. And a couple of the things I read, coupled with some posts from the board, persuaded me to first schedule a developmental exam. At the initial exam, Dr. V rattled off some of the symptoms she would expect a child to exhibit based on what she saw from dd's eyes. They fit dd to a T! She is not dyslexic at all; her problems all stemmed from her eyes. As far as I know, our doctors are the only 2 developmental optometrists in Arkansas. That is why we had to drive 2 hours (one way) to FS twice a week for 12 weeks for VT. Now my younger dd is going only once a month; that is much easier! I hope you have a good appointment and are able to get some answers for your ds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiver0f10 Posted January 19, 2008 Author Share Posted January 19, 2008 Thanks for sharing! I am encouraged and hope we have the same type of results! This dr is a developmental optometrist I located through one of the VT web sites. I think it was http://www.covd.org/ . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie in AR Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 As far as I know, our doctors are the only 2 developmental optometrists in Arkansas. The 2 doctors I was referring to were *mine* and *yours*.:) Dr. V had mentioned to me that there was another developmental optometrist opening up an office in C. You would think someone would come to the center of the state! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiver0f10 Posted January 19, 2008 Author Share Posted January 19, 2008 The 2 doctors I was referring to were *mine* and *yours*.:) Dr. V had mentioned to me that there was another developmental optometrist opening up an office in C. You would think someone would come to the center of the state! Oh, sorry! LOL I was suprised to even find one here, but yes, it would be nice to see more options. I was suprised there isn't one in Little Rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stirsmommy Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 I am taking my ds(7) in for his evaluation on Wed. I really hope this helps. He has is beginning to struggle with the fact that his friends read fluently and he is a one worder. I really hope we will find the info needed to help him. I had a hard time finding VT up here. None were listed on the national website. The closest was three hours away. Fortunately some other homeschoolers on the web up here mentioned looking and someone said oh our eye dr does it. We went in for check ups and I asked about it. He told me there are three others in the area as well! I wish I knew more about how they are tested. Do you know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiver0f10 Posted January 19, 2008 Author Share Posted January 19, 2008 I don't know much, but when I made the appointment the recieptionist said it was a 2 hour exam. They are mailing me some info on the eval next week so hopefully I will have a better understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stirsmommy Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 I have to say I am getting nervous about it. Part of me just wants to know what to do to help but part me wants him just to magically get reading. I have to say that since I made the appt he has suddenly begun to make some strides but he struggles so much it breaks my heart. He has also finally begun to write a bit better so maybe I am still hoping it is just a maturity thing. For a long time I thought it was just that I couldn't teach reading since the older two had been in public school at this age but a friend reminded me that I had taught the oldest when he was four so he would quit hounding me about knowing how to read. I think I just need for someone to tell me " OK this is how you proceed", I will march along like a good little trooper then. Melissa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiver0f10 Posted January 19, 2008 Author Share Posted January 19, 2008 Oh, I completely understand what you are going through! I have been going back and forth over this for 2.5 years now and keep hoping it will just click for him. I am praying you get an answer soon and please keep me updated as to what you find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stirsmommy Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 Thanks Jean, I will let you know how it goes. He is excited as he liked the eye doctor so it isn't nearly as nerve wracking for him as me. I just keep saying to myself knowing is better than not knowing. Melissa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lux Et Veritas Academy Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 I went to the MD hoping to find something and my sons vision is more than perfect. But I would like to have the evaluation. I still think the therapy can help his reading out-Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stirsmommy Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 My ds see things brilliantly as his eye dr put it but after chatting decided we needed to do a reading assessment to make sure there wasn't anything that seemed to be holding him back with reading. He can read a word at a time but has extreme difficulty with sentences. I have no idea what to expect. Of course when I found out dd had auditory processing issue I had no idea what to do for her and now she is working above grade level. Finding out how to help her was the best thing ever. So why am I so stressed over ds's test???? Melissa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 is that they test acuity, but fail to evaluate convergence, accommodation, tracking and other visual efficiency skills. A child can have 20/20 vision and still have major visual efficiency deficits. Our opthalmologist told me my dd's vision with eyeglasses was more than adequate for reading (20/30) and that her difficulty learning to read had nothing to do with her eyes. He was wrong. When I took her to a developmental optometrist for evaluation, she was able to show me how my dd's eyes failed to function normally in a variety of ways. Vision wasn't the only problem my dd had with reading. She also had severe phonemic awareness delays and needed a structured, multi-sensory reading program. However, had we not addressed both of her areas of deficit -- phonemic awareness and vision -- she would not have been able to achieve fluent reading of text. Actually, even these two therapies were not enough. Because she had lived with severe visual efficiency deficits for so long, she also needed cognitive skills training to develop a variety of skills that lagged because of the continuous sensory deprivation she had experienced. Not all children with reading problems have a visual efficiency issue, but many do. At age 8, my dd was able to read individual words at a 2nd and 3rd grade level -- given unlimited time. She was extremely disfluent when reading text, however, even at a 2nd grade level. She skipped words, skipped entire lines without realizing it, ignored punctuation, substituted words, and would have to sound out the same word over and over again even in the same sentence (no short-term visual memory for the words). After vision therapy and cognitive skills training, with no additional reading instruction, she was able to read the first Harry Potter book out loud fluently. Her visual efficiency and visual processing deficits were interfering with her ability to apply what she knew about phonics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiver0f10 Posted January 19, 2008 Author Share Posted January 19, 2008 \ At age 8, my dd was able to read individual words at a 2nd and 3rd grade level -- given unlimited time. She was extremely disfluent when reading text, however, even at a 2nd grade level. She skipped words, skipped entire lines without realizing it, ignored punctuation, substituted words, and would have to sound out the same word over and over again even in the same sentence (no short-term visual memory for the words). This is my son to a "T"! I am really looking forward to his eval and what we learn. Now, I wish I hadn't waited so long though. I kept thinking that soon it would click, just a little more time etc. *sigh* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie in AR Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 The problem with regular vision exams is that they test acuity, but fail to evaluate convergence, accommodation, tracking and other visual efficiency skills. A child can have 20/20 vision and still have major visual efficiency deficits . . . Not all children with reading problems have a visual efficiency issue, but many do. At age 8, my dd was able to read individual words at a 2nd and 3rd grade level -- given unlimited time. She was extremely disfluent when reading text, however, even at a 2nd grade level. She skipped words, skipped entire lines without realizing it . . . Yes, Claire is absolutely correct. Regular vision exams will not detect many vision problems. My dd had trouble with convergence, accommodation, and tracking, and these issues had never been evaluated with our regular optometrist. He just prescribed her glasses and sent her home. Claire, your dd's symptoms were very similar to my dd's at age 9. Now, a year later, all of these symptoms are gone. We have just begun Tapestry of Grace, and she has been able to complete the UG level reading for the past two weeks. We are both thrilled! There is absolutely no way she could have even attempted it a year ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stirsmommy Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 Ds is a lot like Claire describe. You know I actually feel better just knowing there are other kids like him out there. He is still at mainly one and two syllable words and is most comfortable with short vowels but he can tell you the sight words are on the flash cards but when he reads a sentence he sounds them out too. Thanks for all the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam H Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 I'm in the Ozarks of AR. I've been referred to a "wonderful" dr in Springfield, MO. Our speech therapist says he is really great! We used VT software through Dr. Stephey in CA. I really didn't think that the VT had done much good for my ds. You know, he isn't using his blue lens sunglasses any more to read. Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathy in MD Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 My ds also needed both VT and ST in order to learn to read. Neither one by itself would have worked. So VT is good, it just doesn't automatically develop an instant reader. But especially for Stirsmommy, check the auditory portion of reading. Auditory problems often run in families. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stirsmommy Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 My ds also needed both VT and ST in order to learn to read. Neither one by itself would have worked. So VT is good, it just doesn't automatically develop an instant reader. But especially for Stirsmommy, check the auditory portion of reading. Auditory problems often run in families. We have already checked his auditory skills since that was my first thought. Actually I didn't know about visual things other than dyslexia. Fortunately for him his auditory is not a issue. It seems each child has a new thing for me to learn about for them. I guess that way I can never be bored! Melissa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pensguys Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Jean, I'm glad you're doing that. I'm not sure if it has been the VT or ABCD or time or some of all of it, but my ds is doing SO much better this year with his writing. His handwriting is still really bad and we're doing OT for that as well as a couple other issues (no one will say Yes he has dysgraphia...the OT said she doesn't see it as fully that; but he has low muscle tone (upper body) and doesn't know his place in space...which is why we're doing the OT too). SOMETHING has made him start coming out of his shell. I don't know if it is the VT that has added to his confidence since he is reading better or what, but I'm really glad you're checking into it for your ds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiver0f10 Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 Penny, I am so glad to hear your son is doing well! I had wondered how thigns were going this year. I am hoping we have some good news to share soon too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pensguys Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Silly me....I meant to say READING, not writing. But you knew what I meant. :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiver0f10 Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 Silly me....I meant to say READING, not writing. But you knew what I meant. :o LOL I didn't even notice, but I did know what you meant :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Vision therapy alone was not enough to improve my dd's reading fluency. Her fluency was about the same after VT, even though her testing scores had gone from scores as low as 1st percentile to 40th percentile or better. It was, however, a necessary first step to achieving reading fluency. Once VT had corrected her major visual efficiency deficits (accommodation, convergence and tracking), she needed cognitive skills training to develop visual *processing* skills. This is the next level in development and works on skills such as visual sequential memory, pattern recognition, attention to visual detail, directionality, etc. We did PACE for this phase. Had we not done VT first, though, we would not have gotten the dramatic gains we saw from PACE. Also, I wanted to mention that some children have motor integration programs that affect vision. When this is the case, the motor issues need to be addressed with occupational therapy in order for VT to be effective. Motor development (such as visual-motor integration) is the developmental step that precedes development of visual efficiency skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pensguys Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Claire, I'm hoping that the OT we've started with my ds will also help with all this. We get to go once/week for 5 months, so we'll see what happens then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stirsmommy Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 We are back from the eye dr appt. It didn't get too far and we have to go back in two weeks. I didn't realize that they would be havin him write and the child has fine motor delays and can hardly write. That part took nearly an hour. Also he didn't "know" his ABC's. What??? He doesn't know the song but he can tell you all of the sounds they make. I think he must have panicked. Sort of like I am now. Anyway I am to work on that over the next two weeks and then we are going to do more work with the dr in two weeks. I just wanted to finally have some info. I think I need a run to starbucks and I don't know what. Does anyone know what I can expect for next time? Melissa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Hmmm. There is a lot of variation among developmental optometrists about what they test for and what they treat. Did you find this DO on the COVD website? Our developmental vision evaluations did not include any writing. After 8 months of vision therapy, the DO offered dyslexia testing. Those tests did require writing. I wasn't present for all of the testing, but I don't think they ever asked my dd to recite the ABCs. Do you know other people who have used this DO? A DO is able to test major visual efficiency skills without involving any handwriting. Some DOs branch out to include lower-level skills (occupational therapy type skills involving things such as balance, crossing the midline, etc.) and higher-level skills (cognitive skills involving visual-sequential memory and other visual processing). It sounds as if you may not have a good match for your needs. This DO may be focusing on areas other than the ones you need. Do you have any other DO options in your area? Also, keep in mind that DOs are just like any other physician specialty. There are doctors who graduate with an A-average and are very patient-oriented. Then there are doctors who graduate with a C-average and are very business-oriented. I *always* recommend assessing your doctor and switching if you are not satisfied with the quality of service you are getting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stirsmommy Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Our DO seems to be the one for our area. I think they started with visual perception testing which ds did well on for him. But then I think to see where he was he started having him write the letters as he said them. Ok I have to say it never occurred to me to do that. Ds can see a letter and tell it to you and can tell you the sound but he told me mom we have never done it that way. also I never thought about it but I didn't teach him phonemes in alphabetical order so he really is clueless. Also ds tends to act up when others see his "issues" and I just didn't think about it at all. Next time I am going to have to be in with him not just listening in to make sure he settles. I am going to look around and see if we can find any others that are not 3 hours away. Thanks for responding so quickly. This board is the only place I can vent or anything about my youngest. My friends here think I am nuts for homeschooling and my family isn't exactly supportive about it either. It is just the more I learn of his issues the more important I think it is that I do it! Melissa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Having him write the letters as he sees them is testing visual-motor integration (typically an occupational therapy concern). Alphabetical order is pretty meaningless, but the DO may be trying to assess sequential processing with the ABCs. My dd was unable to recite the alphabet without making a mistake when she was 8yo. In her case, I'm sure her severe visual efficiency deficits had interfered with development of sequential processing skills (higher-level cognitive skills). However, I find it very odd that your DO would be using an *oral* test for sequencing skills! When you say the DO started with visual perception testing, I'm wondering exactly what tests these were. Do you have any idea? If you like, I can dig out our DO evals and list the areas that were tested (about 20). Let me know if you want this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stirsmommy Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 I would love to know this if it isn't too much trouble for you. I know that he was looking at pictures of shapes with different patterns and things like that and he had to find to the two that were alike. I am really beginning to stress over the whole thing. \Melissa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathy in MD Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 As Claire mentioned, various doctors do run different tests and sometimes include extras to basic VT. For example, my ds's DO included visual cognitive therapy and hand-eye coordination work. But he didn't take it into the education area, other than the reading test. The reading test recorded eye tracking on a computer and included a very simple comprehension test. There are also ways to test eye-pencil control without writing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 I would love to know this if it isn't too much trouble for you. I know that he was looking at pictures of shapes with different patterns and things like that and he had to find to the two that were alike. I am really beginning to stress over the whole thing. \Melissa Okay. I'll post it later, when I have some time. The test above sounds like a visual *processing* test to me (cognitive skill). I'm pretty sure it's not a test of visual efficiency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.