My challengeing son what to do?

[nitascool]

I'm having a hard time with my oldest son. He will be 8 at the end of the month. But he's a little teen ager in an eight year old body. Always challenging my (and dh's) authority.

 

He is always (for the last year) so annoyed if I expect anything from him. And the less we do the more of a challenge he becomes. Not just in school but in everything.

 

In school if it is too easy then school is "stupid". But when I expect anything of him it's all about other 2nd graders don't have to do this. And he's right. But he's not other 2nd graders and we have the talk.

 

With chores he's the only one who ever has to do anything. Mom and Dad do NOTHING and his brother who is 6 never has to do anything and his 3 yo brother doesn't even have to do school... life is so unfare for my 8yo in his eyes. His chores include:

Feed/water cat (daily)

Clean room with help from 6yo admittedly not a lot of help (daily),

Water "his" plants (daily)

Pick up living room (twice a day)

Put away his and 3yo brother's clothes (he puts them in drawer 2-3 times a week)

Put away his school books (daily)

Rake yard (once a week)

Prepare one meal a week (with help as needed)

 

I personally did much more at his age while dh did much less.

 

The questioning never ends. When he was little his questions were probing and thoughtful... they were not authority defying questions. I miss those days.

 

We have never allowed our children to talk back... but that's all he does these days. I spend more time dealing with his bad attitude then anything else. *I make a point to tell him tons of sencear positives even when I feel like chucking a shoe at him instead.

 

When he gets a reward for doing something good he's generally got a bad attitude when getting the reward. For instance, he worked hard in the yard today preparing to move our seedlings into the garden so I rewarded him with a trip to McDonald's, but by the time we'd gotten there he'd smarted off to me twice. His brothers had earned the reward too so I couldn't just turn the car around. He was disappointed when he didn't get to have a happy meal, he did get to eat, just no toy... I just couldn't reward the bad attitude. I felt worse then he did I'm sure.

 

In the past when we've come against these kind of behaviors it was always just before an intellectual leap. It usually meant that it was time to challenge him a bit more in one or more areas. Normally we'd speed up something and give it a couple weeks to see how he was doing.

 

But his dad is doing school with him this year. His dad doesn't agree that he needs to be challenged more. He tells me the work is too much for him. Because it's 4 hours of school a day. But on the days when dad does an hour or two and heads off to work I'm left with a rude and obnoxious child who is obviously not balanced. On the days when they do their full 4 hours of school he is his usual sweet self.

 

So I'm very torn about it. I don't want to step on dh's toes. Ds really needs this dad time. Their strained relationship has gotten better... even as he's pulling away from mom. I know that some of it is being a boy and that age needing to be "the man". But the disrespect is not acceptable. And he seems so miserable. He's really struggling and it's making it hard on me, dh, and his siblings.

 

:confused:So for my questions... :confused:

Am I the only mom dealing with a child who desperately wants to be independent of dear olé' mom and dad?

 

Is my son the only kid who thinks he's 12 years old, just because he's academically 12?

 

Will it get any easier?

 

Any ideas on intellectually stimulating him outside academic pursuits?

[Donna]

My middle son went throught a similar stage at 8yo. I believe you need to be firm about the disrespectful behavior and consistent about the consequences. I can't say what those should be for your own family/child because every child/family is different but you and your husband need to come to an agreement on appropriate consequences prior to unacceptable behavior. One thing that worked very well for my son was to reward good behavior. He truly wanted to please us and rewarding things he did well helped him to move more in that direction. It didn't need to be a large reward for my son...just some extra time helping me cook dinner or helping dad around the house or getting to chose what snack we baked, etc...just something that made him feel special.

 

Chores are a good thing. I have 3 children and we dole out the chores but I do allow some choice in the matter. I make a list of what needs to be done and everyone picks 2-3 they would like to do. Giving them a choice in the matter helps them to be cooperative about doing the chores. My dd did do chores at 3yo as well...put her laundry in drawers she could reach, feed the dog, dust low-lying surfaces, pick up her own toys, etc...

 

Is your son involved in any sports or musical instruments? Local areas generally have team sports that are relatively inexpensive. Martial arts provide wonderful guidance for learning respect and discipline as well as tiring the body and providing learning for the mind. My boys both have black belts in taekwondo and now take judo as well. You could teach him to play the recorder or another musical instrument he finds interesting.

 

Other ideas may be art projects or learning skills or studying in an area of interest outside his normal school routine.

 

Is the school work he is doing challenging him intellectually? Is he having difficulty with providing output at the same level as material he is capable of learning? Is it too much busy type work rather than intellectually challenging work? Would he do better with less writing expected but being given more or higher level input? Just some things to think about.

[Guest Celtic Eireann]

We've had the same problem with my 12 yr old son (since birth it seems.)

One thing that definitely had happened at our house-we didn't realize this-was that because he *acted* so much older,we gave him more consideration (for want of a better word) than he deserved.We had elevated him to a decision making status equal to ours-wich,as a child,he didn't deserve.

In our family,we believe the parent's word is the final authority in our home.Now,this dosen't mean that we are totally inflexible,but it does mean no. means. no.

Somehow,we had gotten this mixed up-wich lead to the cheeky,smart-elicky behavior of arguing and talking back.It took our pediatrician gently pointing this out to us before we realized what had happened.

So how we fixed it was really just this-my husband had to really insert his "Alpha Male" status and we have to say oftern-"We are the parents-you are the child."

We also developed a new system for back talk-and it works very well if used consistently.....I'll post it if you like.

I guess my best advice is-Stick to your guns...kids will try everything sometimes to get their way-and it seems that smarter than average kids try harder and longer than others.There may be days that you want to throw a shoe at him-I've had those!- but hang in there! :001_smile:

[LisaKinVA]

Your near 8yo, sounds like my 8yo (ugh!). I completely understand where you are and what you're going through.

 

We are really having to work on the consequences of choices right now. DS did not go to cub scouts last night because he didn't complete his school work. But, it wasn't so much about completion as it was the fact he didn't even ATTEMPT to do his school work. He bawled. And, when he was supposed to be at cub scouts, he was at his desk doing his school work.

 

I'm getting pretty hard-nosed with my son. Making him re-write math he's rushed through. Erasing and making him do-over sloppy work. But, it is working (on those things).

 

Also, I can't let him get away with *anything*. We have "conferences" in the bathroom for talking back and lying (saying he's "done" with an assignment when he's not really, or when he hasn't done his best work). He receives penalties for anything minor -- 3 penalties, and he's earned an extra chore.

 

We also have rewards, though. Every all done day = 8 points. He can earn extra points through positive communication (with me, or his siblings), positive behavoir (helpful, doing things w/o being asked, etc).

 

We subtract penalities from his rewards to get a final tally.

 

50 points (Mon-Fri) he earns all on his own, equals a "late night" up priviledge (only on Fridays). All of those points have to be earned that week.

 

100 points (Sun-Sat) between the oldest 3 children = Sunday Swim at the YMCA (again, must be earned in the same week).

 

250 points (cumulative) = Happy Meal Night

 

450 points (cumulative) = Family Trip

 

Pick a special priviledge (individual) = 15 points in one day (things like choosing the family night activity, mom does my chores day, making pizza with dad -- things like that).

 

The rewards have to be given out as generously as the penalties (believe me, it's much easier to give out penalties!)

 

As long as dh and I are consistent, we see very positive changes in our son. As soon as we slack off, we have to start all over again.

 

If your DS is not disrespectful of DH and only to you -- you have to step up your game, and Dad (when he's there) has to stand by you.

 

If your DH doesn't agree regarding the additional challenge (school work), what will he agree to? You and DH have to be unified, so you will need to sort out your feelings, discipline, what you both will or will not do. No amount of discipline will work if you and DH aren't on the same page. The children have a 6th sense about these thing, and will take advantage.

 

This is a very frustrating time, I'm sure. It can get better -- but the work really starts with DH and you. Good for you for not giving DS the toy -- You may want to add, that if he does this again -- he won't get the special meal either and will have PB &J for dinner while his bros. get the treat.

 

Unfortunately, Discipline is as much about us as it is about the children. If we don't have it, neither will they.

[Desert Rat]

We're in the same boat and lately it seems I've misplaced my oars. Huck will be 8 next month and sasses with the best of them. In addition he's also mega sensitive so he cries all the time!

Reward systems don't work for him. He sees it as a competition with his little brother. I was tired of the meltdowns so we chucked the entire thing (even though it was working smashingly with Tom :001_huh:).

I've been trying the reverse for a few weeks. I don't let insolence slide but I reprimand quickly and quietly with "That is not acceptable in our house. Repeat it nicely or go to your room." Then, I make a really big deal out of the times I overhear him speaking nicely with his brother or friends. Praise. Praise. Praise. This is hard for me because my natural instinct is to come down hard on him. But, it has been working.

He's my attention boy. I feel my 5yo is short changed a lot because Huck just requires so much attention. Honestly, I get really resentful of him at times and feel that although his brilliance is his gift but my curse. It doesn't help that he's a serious boy who leans toward the negative (like me, I guess.) There are a lot of my own emotions that I continue to work through in relation to Huck. I cherish every minute with him but like someone said, I really would just rather chuck my shoe at him!

He's also going through that phase where Dad is God and I'm just hired help. Tom is picking up on it too. Like, oh, no, not MOM again! :bored: Oh, Joy. Someday, I hope they'll turn back around and start enjoying my company again. Until then, I'm okay being the meanie. Hey, that's my job!

I don't know if it'll get any better. I just hope I'll get better dealing with him.

HTH

[fishnoises]

it must a be the age and the intelligence. I tell my son that he has to respect authority even if the parent/teacher/coach is wrong, that he still has to obey!!!! That is a tough lesson. It is the #1 thing he fights me on. He HAS to be right and he HAS to know everyone's business. He is easily distracted and wants to be sure that everything is fair. We fight every day. I have 3 daughters too. They are another kind of difficulty!!!! But it is my ds who I struggle to understand.

(He cries a lot too. He gets easily frustrated when things don't go the way he wants them too. I think he'll be an engineer!!!!)

He does no chores though. I do expect a cleaned up room from time to time. I need to work on the chores thing around here!

Oh yeah, he is involved in Scouts and various sports depending on the season (basketball, archery, football, baseball...)

[LisaKinVA]

I'm actually looking forward to putting mine in italian school next year. I'm hoping it will be a HUGE challenge, and that his Italian teachers/school work will be so tough that he'll be beggin to come home:).

 

OTOH, this is the child that learns his Latin lesson backwards and forwards after one listen of the DVD lesson, and is absolutely not intimidated by anyone or anything. With my luck, he'll pick up on the language and be even more confident and more difficult to intimidate:tongue_smilie:

 

I guess we'll see!

[nitascool]

Is the school work he is doing challenging him intellectually? Is he having difficulty with providing output at the same level as material he is capable of learning? Is it too much busy type work rather than intellectually challenging work? Would he do better with less writing expected but being given more or higher level input? Just some things to think about.

 

I do not believe that his school work is challenging him enough. My husband disagrees. He feels that the work is so challenging that our son should only be required to do school for a short period of time each day. For him, it is more that he feels the time requirement is too much.

 

Most of the materials we use for him are on a Jr. High level, we require an output equal to the input. For instance, in grammar he has to do all the work in his workbook just as if he were doing upper level grammar. However, dh sits with him to keep him on track and focused which is unlike the average Jr. High student.

We also developed a new system for back talk-and it works very well if used consistently.....I'll post it if you like. QUOTE]

 

Yes please do post it. We have always treated our son as somewhat older... but we have been careful to let him know who the bosses are.

 

 

We've seriously stripped down the busy work in every area except math... which though it is busy work... he needs the repetition.

 

As far as writing is concerned we require that he do Science and History writing on about a 5th grade level no matter what materials he uses. This is actually slightly below his ability. When writing for Language arts he's required to follow the six traits of writing and can write as much or as little as long as it is correctly punctuated, in complete sentences and answers the question or fulfills the purpose of the piece. His writing on average is 1/2 to 1 page on wide rule paper, three days a week. This is not including journal writing which is not required, workbooks and penmanship.

[nitascool]

My disagreement with dh on how much school ds needs is part of the reason I posted here. You see, this year he's taking the lead with my almost 8yo and I want to give him the space to decide these things. To let him do things his way. But I really feel conflicted about it because it is not him who has to spend the rest of the day dealing with a cranky child.

 

That also means I really need to find some non-academic things that will still be intellectually challenging for him. We have agreed that ds and dh would focus on Math, History, Grammar and Penmanship for the rest of the school year. These are the subjects, except grammar, that he is still working on.

 

 

 

For Math we decided to have him do MUS in addition to having completed Singapore 2B, for history he is doing a Middle Ages hybrid between 2/5th grade and 3rd grade Penmanship because he has slacked in his usual neat penmanship.

 

 

Oh and I wanted to thank everyone who posted. It's a relief to know that this is just a boy thing. I hate having to always be correcting him but like Kalah said, I'm okay being the meanie... at long as it's for his own good and not my shoe throwing frustration... and for the record I've never thrown a shoe at him. :lol:

[fishnoises]

Hey, I was thinking, nitascool, that you may consider introducing Latin to your son if you haven't already. We do an hour a day, and it is the first thing we do every day. It has been very challenging for the kids (at first), but I am pleased with what it has done for their thinking skills.

Of course my ds gives me the most flack when we do drills and when he has to do written exercises. But not as much as witht he other subjects!!!! He loves learning Greek too. Just the Hupogrammon for now.

I personally would rather have kids be busy than bugging me about being bored all day. When we get done early, they drive me nuts!!! (especially when it is too cold or rainy to go outside, or the neighborhood ps kids aren't back from school yet. I am looking forward to the summer break, but not looking forward to the cries of boredom!)