How does Lial's Pre-calc work for non mathy families

[Hunter's Moon]

I was going to use Math U See, or TT, but people have told me that they would both be below Honors level.

 

I was looking into Lial's Precalculus but my mother is not very mathy at all- only learning up to basic Algebra in high school and she wants to make sure whatever math curriculum is complete and teaches everything.

 

TT is too expensive, IMO, and it doesn't even go to Precalculus.

 

Is Lial's really a "Teaching" textbook? Would I be able to read the section and understand it without a teacher?

[Teachin'Mine]

What math textbooks have you been using in school?

[Hunter's Moon]

McDougall Littell for Algebra II and Geometry: Tools for a Changing World.

[Teachin'Mine]

McDougal Littell is what we used in geometry too. It's a challenging book. I know many here will disagree with me, but I would suggest at least looking at the Saxon book. I know most say don't do it if you haven't used it already for Algebra I, but even though you're not "mathy," you've got a good head on your shoulders and don't seem to shy away from hard work. The lessons are explained well, have sample problems to work through with them, practice problems, and then the infamous 30 problems of a mixed nature. The solutions manual is great as it shows all the steps. I would suggest at least looking at the Advanced Math book and see if it's something you could follow on your own. The geometry book was the exact opposite to me, and really works better with a lot of teacher input.

 

Lials may be a great program to learn on your own as well - I'm only familiar with Saxon. I chose it a few years ago because of its reputation and because it goes through to calculus. My daughter struggled with the geometry text, but loves Saxon.

 

On edit: I just re-read your post, and I think you're saying you used something else for geometry. I think I got up too early this morning. lol

[Hunter's Moon]

McDougal Littell is what we used in geometry too. It's a challenging book. I know many here will disagree with me' date=' but I would suggest at least looking at the Saxon book. I know most say don't do it if you haven't used it already for Algebra I, but even though you're not "mathy," you've got a good head on your shoulders and don't seem to shy away from hard work. The lessons are explained well, have sample problems to work through with them, practice problems, and then the infamous 30 problems of a mixed nature. The solutions manual is great as it shows all the steps. I would suggest at least looking at the Advanced Math book and see if it's something you could follow on your own. The geometry book was the exact opposite to me, and really works better with a lot of teacher input.

 

Lials may be a great program to learn on your own as well - I'm only familiar with Saxon. I chose it a few years ago because of its reputation and because it goes through to calculus. My daughter struggled with the geometry text, but loves Saxon.

 

On edit: I just re-read your post, and I think you're saying you used something else for geometry. I think I got up too early this morning. lol[/quote']

 

I'm sorry. Looking at the what I worded it, it does look like I said I used Littell for Geometry.

 

Thanks for the suggestion. I will look into it. Looking at any options I can look it :D

[Teachin'Mine]

I'm laughing too because I just re-read your post, and it's your mom who isn't mathy, not you. :lol:

 

I wish there was some way you could see a lesson in the book, but searching on the web hasn't brought up anything so far. I know I've seen them on the used curriculum tables at home school curriculum fairs. Any chance there will be one near you? These fairs are awesome for getting a chance to really look at each of the different books.

[Teachin'Mine]

I've been searching some more and found a great link! It has the list of topics covered in each lesson, and Lesson #18 in Advanced Math. It doesn't go into the practice problems, or the 30 lesson problems, but it should give you a good idea of how the lessons are taught.

 

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:27TxPQDhQRIJ:www.oakmeadow.com/curriculum/sample-lessons/12-grade-math-advanced.pdf+see+a+sample+less+saxon+advanced+math&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjE1pZCc1a4iMfJsvZKO2ERhLJAtf80VtDaL513TYw2xjF-_hifB_RTqQQjcNm5OjCZwhNTN0ijpQ1GZC2oshDJssP7MFx92ve-KPlj6CKI43_rewcZ67VgVsYgTiSWhQKh6lxs&sig=AHIEtbT-gvkK1ZQGp98rGr5181byZH68eQ

[Hunter's Moon]

We've been looking around for one, doesn't seem to be one anywhere. We do plan on going to Boston one weekend for their Science Museum and Aquarium. Maybe they'll have one around there since they're more "central".

 

I wouldn't say I am mathy, but I don't hate it, so if it requires extra work, fine with me.

[Teachin'Mine]

I posted a link to seeing a lesson in Saxon Advanced Math, but the post probably came through while you were writing yours. Your trip to Boston sounds awesome - enjoy!!!

[Hunter's Moon]

Thank you for the link :)

 

I think I am just going to go with Lial's, even though Saxon does look good. I've just seen a lot more praise for Lial's than Saxon, especially for their upper levels.

 

Thank you though. You have helped me a lot :)

[Teachin'Mine]

You're welcome. I agree I've heard so many good things about Lial's here. I'm actually very interested to see what they are like. I'm not looking to switch, but I am curious. :)

 

I'm glad to hear you'll be going with that as from everything I've read here, it is a solid math program which will prepare you for Calculus. :)

[Teachin'Mine]

...

Edited May 26, 2010 by Teachin'Mine
wrong info

[Hunter's Moon]

I'll definitely fill you in on how Lial's is once I've done it. :)

[Chris in VA]

Tiger--my son uses Lial's precalc (which covers some beginning calc, too) in public school. I'll see if dh can help me scan in some pages for you, but it'll have to be tomorrow, if that helps.

The isbn for the book we have is

0-321-05763-5

 

Just picking it up and looking at it--I notice that they have an index of applications in the back--

Ah--it indexes the practical applications given as problems in each chapter--oh, this is cool--for anyone who says, "When would I even use this stuff?" there are answers! lol

 

Things are listed like,

How much material would be needed for the rungs of a ladder of 31 rungs if the rungs taper uniformly from 18 inches to 28 inches?

 

What is the value of a college education--i.e., is the cost of investing in a college ed worth it in the long run vs. jumping immediately into the job market. You are given some info and then required to work it all out--very interesting! :D

 

The permutations stuff is fun--subject matter includes musical chairs, race track betting odds, convention delegations, combo questions, etc.

 

There are also application problems that have to do with physics, music, government, geology, engineering, finance, construction, consumer information, economics, labor, biology/life science, business, chemistry, astonomy, automotive topics, travel---The problems alone would make Lial's quite an interesting text!:D

[Hunter's Moon]

Tiger--my son uses Lial's precalc (which covers some beginning calc, too) in public school. I'll see if dh can help me scan in some pages for you, but it'll have to be tomorrow, if that helps.

The isbn for the book we have is

0-321-05763-5

 

Just picking it up and looking at it--I notice that they have an index of applications in the back--

Ah--it indexes the practical applications given as problems in each chapter--oh, this is cool--for anyone who says, "When would I even use this stuff?" there are answers! lol

 

Things are listed like,

How much material would be needed for the rungs of a ladder of 31 rungs if the rungs taper uniformly from 18 inches to 28 inches?

 

What is the value of a college education--i.e., is the cost of investing in a college ed worth it in the long run vs. jumping immediately into the job market. You are given some info and then required to work it all out--very interesting! :D

 

The permutations stuff is fun--subject matter includes musical chairs, race track betting odds, convention delegations, combo questions, etc.

 

There are also application problems that have to do with physics, music, government, geology, engineering, finance, construction, consumer information, economics, labor, biology/life science, business, chemistry, astonomy, automotive topics, travel---The problems alone would make Lial's quite an interesting text!:D

 

Thank you for this helpful description! I would really appreciate if you could scan some pages for me, if possible. Thank you for the ISBN as well :)

[Matryoshka]

We've been looking around for one, doesn't seem to be one anywhere. We do plan on going to Boston one weekend for their Science Museum and Aquarium. Maybe they'll have one around there since they're more "central".

 

Unfortunately, there is a serious dearth of homeschool supply places here in MA. Wonder if the Harvard Coop would have these textbooks, though, since they're not homeschool specific? Or the BU bookstore??

 

And lanugage girl, you do have to check out Schoenhof's if you get to Boston! It's only a block away from the Coop. :)

 

I was looking into Lial's Precalculus but my mother is not very mathy at all- only learning up to basic Algebra in high school and she wants to make sure whatever math curriculum is complete and teaches everything.

 

I'm pretty sure they have DVT (digital video tutors) for all the Lial's levels. We're just going to be starting with Lial's Basic College Mathematics for the fall, but my dd likes the video lessons. If you buy the text, the ISBNs for the corresponding DVTs are on the back of the book (helpful!) Jann in TX, resident Lial's expert, has said many times that with Lial's all the teaching is in the student text - I would hope that's true for the Pre-Calc as well. Maybe you could PM her if she doesn't respond to this thread?

[eumyang]

McDougall Littell for Algebra II and Geometry: Tools for a Changing World.

McDougal Littell is what we used in geometry too.

As already mentioned' date=' the Geometry book is not McDougal Littell. It's from Prentice Hall (or I should say Pearson). I remember reading a review on the Algebra 1 book from the same series and it was a rather negative review.

 

I'm pretty sure they have DVT (digital video tutors) for all the Lial's levels.

They do. Here's a link for the DVT that corresponds to the most recent edition (4th ed.), though I'm not sure you'll be able to get to it:

http://www.pearsonhighered.com/educator/product/Video-Lectures-on-CD-for-College-Algebra-and-TrigonometryPrecalculus-4E/9780321529299.page

 

On another note, I have access to Coursesmart, which is where teachers have access to electronic copies of books for evaluation purposes. It's funny that the OP is asking about Lial's Precalculus because I was approved to view it on my Coursesmart account just last month. Unfortunately there is no way for me to send a file or link so that the OP could access it -- that's not exactly legal. If the OP has a question on the book I could look it up, I guess.

 

 

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[Hunter's Moon]

As already mentioned, the Geometry book is not McDougal Littell. It's from Prentice Hall (or I should say Pearson). I remember reading a review on the Algebra 1 book from the same series and it was a rather negative review.

 

They do. Here's a link for the DVT that corresponds to the most recent edition (4th ed.), though I'm not sure you'll be able to get to it:

http://www.pearsonhighered.com/educator/product/Video-Lectures-on-CD-for-College-Algebra-and-TrigonometryPrecalculus-4E/9780321529299.page

 

On another note, I have access to Coursesmart, which is where teachers have access to electronic copies of books for evaluation purposes. It's funny that the OP is asking about Lial's Precalculus because I was approved to view it on my Coursesmart account just last month. Unfortunately there is no way for me to send a file or link so that the OP could access it -- that's not exactly legal. If the OP has a question on the book I could look it up, I guess.

 

 

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I was just wondering how many chapters and sections it had.

[eumyang]

Oh, for that, you can go to Pearson's website. But I'll copy & paste the table of contents here. Again, this is the 4th (most recent) edition:

 

R. Review of Basic Concepts.

Sets.

Real Numbers and Their Properties.

Polynomials.

Factoring Polynomials.

Rational Expressions.

Rational Exponents.

Radical Expressions.

 

1. Equations and Inequalities.

Linear Equations.

Applications and Modeling with Linear Equations.

Complex Numbers.

Quadratic Equations.

Applications and Modeling with Quadratic Equations.

Other Types of Equations and Applications.

Inequalities.

Absolute Value Equations and Inequalities.

 

2. Graphs and Functions.

Rectangular Coordinates and Graphs.

Circles.

Functions.

Linear Functions.

Equations of Lines; Curve Fitting.

Graphs of Basic Functions.

Graphing Techniques.

Function Operations and Composition.

 

3. Polynomial and Rational Functions.

Quadratic Functions and Models.

Synthetic Division.

Zeros of Polynomial Functions.

Polynomial Functions: Graphs, Applications, and Models.

Rational Functions: Graphs, Applications, and Models.

Variation.

 

4. Inverse, Exponential, and Logarithmic Functions.

Inverse Functions.

Exponential Functions.

Logarithmic Functions.

Evaluating Logarithms and the Change-of-Base Theorem.

Exponential and Logarithmic Equations.

Applications and Models of Exponential Growth and Decay.

 

5. Trigonometric Functions.

Angles.

Trigonometric Functions.

Evaluating Trigonometric Functions.

Solving Right Triangles.

 

6. The Circular Functions and Their Graphs.

Radian Measure.

The Unit Circle and Circular Functions.

Graphs of the Sine and Cosine Functions.

Translations of the Graphs of the Sine and Cosine Functions.

Graphs of the Tangent, Cotangent, Secant, and Cosecant Functions.

Harmonic Motion.

 

7. Trigonometric Identities and Equations.

Fundamental Identities.

Verifying Trigonometric Identities.

Sum and Difference Identities.

Double-Angle and Half-Angle Identities.

Inverse Circular Functions.

Trigonometric Equations.

Equations Involving Inverse Trigonometric Functions.

 

8. Applications of Trigonometry.

The Law of Sines.

The Law of Cosines.

Vectors, Operations, and the Dot Product.

Applications of Vectors.

Trigonometric (Polar) Form of Complex Numbers; Products and Quotients.

DeMoivre's Theorem; Powers and Roots of Complex Numbers.

Polar Equations and Graphs.

Parametric Equations, Graphs, and Applications.

 

9. Systems and Matrices.

Systems of Linear Equations.

Matrix Solution of Linear Systems.

Determinant Solution of Linear Systems.

Partial Fractions.

Nonlinear Systems of Equations.

Systems of Inequalities and Linear Programming.

Properties of Matrices.

Matrix Inverses.

 

10. Analytic Geometry.

Parabolas.

Ellipses.

Hyperbolas.

Summary of the Conic Sections.

 

11. Further Topics in Algebra.

Sequences and Series.

Arithmetic Sequences and Series.

Geometric Sequences and Series.

The Binomial Theorem.

Mathematical Induction.

Counting Theory.

Basics of Probability.

 

Appendix A. Polar Form of Conic Sections.

Appendix B. Rotation of Axes.

Appendix C: Geometry Formulas.

Glossary.

Solutions to Selected Exercises.

Answers to Selected Exercises.

Index of Applications.

Index.

 

 

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[Hunter's Moon]

Thank you :)