Accuracy and the learning challenged child

[Doran]

Here we go again. I've asked this before, but phrased it differently. The first time, I think I focused on mastery. But, as our eleven year old and I slog through Saxon 5/4 (yes, a year behind where she should be), I'm struck time and again with the number of mistakes she makes on her daily lessons. Out of 30 problems, not counting the practice, she might miss 4-5. Of those misses, the majority are careless errors, not comprehesion issues. She'll miscalculate addition, subtraction, etc. That's frustrating to both of us. Another percentage of her errors are from transposed numbers when she copies the problems for calculating. For example, today she missed a division problem. It was meant to be 254 ÷ 5. Instead, when she copied the problem from her book to her work page, she wrote, 245 ÷ 5. This happens with some frequency.

 

I have the hardest time figuring out how to judge how she's doing in math because of such errors. In a tradtional setting, on a traditional test, she'd do poorly. When she recalculates the problems, 98% of the time, she gets the correct answer on her first try.

 

Does anyone else deal with this and have solutions/suggestions to offer. It really is two separate problems, I guess. But, maybe not.

 

Doran

[Laurie4b]

For transposing numbers, I would count the problem as accurate if she has the right answer to a wrong problem.

 

For the small math errors, are you counting each problem as 100% right or 100% wrong? I rarely allocate just one point per problem with any of my kids, learning issues or not. For instance, for a multi-digit multiplication problem, I would give 2 points: one for the process, one for the answer. If the process was correct, but there was a calculation error, ds would still get 1 point. If the process was wrong, then he'd lose both points.

For a word problem, I assign between 3-6 points depending on how complicated it is.

 

Another way to look at it is regarding what would be compentency IRL, as opposed to in a school setting. For instance, we can use calcuators. This may very well be quite important for your dd, so practicing it would be good, so that she is accurate with the calculator. She could check her own work via calulator, for instance. (I"m not suggesting substituting a calculator at this stage.) However, by the time you get to the SAT's, etc. calculators are allowed. The more important skill is figuring out how to get the answer than actually calculating the answer. Another IRL skill is estimating. Many little calculation errors show up when measured against an estimate. So you might have her give an estimate for each problem before working the problem.

[Stacy in NJ]

Here we go again. I've asked this before, but phrased it differently. The first time, I think I focused on mastery. But, as our eleven year old and I slog through Saxon 5/4 (yes, a year behind where she should be), I'm struck time and again with the number of mistakes she makes on her daily lessons. Out of 30 problems, not counting the practice, she might miss 4-5. Of those misses, the majority are careless errors, not comprehesion issues. She'll miscalculate addition, subtraction, etc. That's frustrating to both of us. Another percentage of her errors are from transposed numbers when she copies the problems for calculating. For example, today she missed a division problem. It was meant to be 254 ÷ 5. Instead, when she copied the problem from her book to her work page, she wrote, 245 ÷ 5. This happens with some frequency.

 

I have the hardest time figuring out how to judge how she's doing in math because of such errors. In a tradtional setting, on a traditional test, she'd do poorly. When she recalculates the problems, 98% of the time, she gets the correct answer on her first try.

 

Does anyone else deal with this and have solutions/suggestions to offer. It really is two separate problems, I guess. But, maybe not.

 

Doran

 

I wouldn't get too hung-up on the careless errors. Make her correct them everyday. As she get's older these will decrease.

[Claire]

The transposed numbers when copying indicate weak sequencing and sequential short-term memory skills. These types of skills are developed in cognitive skills training programs such as PACE and LearningRx. (We did PACE.) These programs also work on pattern recognition skills and visual attention to detail, which helps a lot with paying attention to signs in math problems. These are expensive programs, but well worth doing for many learning challenged students. My dd certainly benefited enormously from PACE in a variety of ways.

[Doran]

The transposed numbers when copying indicate weak sequencing and sequential short-term memory skills. These types of skills are developed in cognitive skills training programs such as PACE and LearningRx. (We did PACE.) These programs also work on pattern recognition skills and visual attention to detail, which helps a lot with paying attention to signs in math problems. These are expensive programs, but well worth doing for many learning challenged students. My dd certainly benefited enormously from PACE in a variety of ways.

 

 

Claire, it would be impossible to frequent this board and not know of your success with the PACE program. :) If we were to forgo the Wilson tutor, we might be able to swing a PACE program purchase. Still no guarantee. But, I was just all over their site and did not find any specifics about pricing. We ive in an area which is not especially urban or accessible, without a minimum of an hour long car ride. I don't think this would be practical for something like PACE which requires 6 hours/week instruction. So, how does one become licensed to tutor ones own child? How much does it cost (relatively...know you made the purchase awhile ago)?

 

The tutor we're using is currently retesting dd after a year of work together. It will be interesting to see how far she's come.

 

With regard to my question, were there any specific ways that you handled errors of this nature (since we are not currently doing either of these two programs) as you worked through your dd's subjects? Thanks for your help.

 

Doran

[Laurie]

I have a cookbook stand to hold up my ds's textbook (which happens to be Saxon) because I think it's easier to have the book upright when copying the problems.

 

*You know, I remember hearing about a Saxon workbook for kids with challenges so I just checked the Saxon website. If you're interested, you could call them and find out about the "Adaptations Student Workbook" for 54. I haven't seen it, but I'm assuming it's the same practice and problem sets?

[Mandamom]

I struggled with this concept for my struggling dss15 (then struggling, not now) also and watched my mom, diagnosed with dyslexia as a college student at 18 years old and currently an educator at a school for students with learning disabilities, and realized that yes, it is okay to "excuse" some errors it is also of prime importance for your child to realize that they have a problem and need to learn to compensate for it.

 

So, one of things I did was to require my son to review every paper he turned in to me. At first I sat beside him while he did it and after a while (a long while) he started seeing more of his own transposition mistakes. He started slowing down on his assignments which also made a difference because he didn't want to spend as much time working with me to review the paper.

 

I think in Mel Levine's book "A Mind At A Time" he talks about having the student take responsibility for their learning issues and that they need to learn skills so that they can cope in adulthood with their learning differences. If your daughter can learn some coping mechanisms now (realizing that it will take time and effort for both of you) she'll benefit as an adult -- even if she doesn't thank you now.

[Claire]

Your best bet might be the Cognitive Calisthenics home program mentioned elsewhere on the board. (I will repost if you can't find the info.) I haven't seen this particular kit, but I have great respect for Dr. Stephey who was a PACE provider for quite a few years. For the price, it would certainly be a good place to start. Knowing his background, I figure he must address sequencing, pattern recognition, and short-term memory skills in his program.

 

I think the company still trains PACE providers as long as you don't live in a LearningRx franchise area, but I'm not sure. Several years ago the cost of the 3-day training seminar was about $3,500 in Colorado Springs, so you would have the cost of travel, hotel and meals while there too. The only way it was cost-efficient for parents was if they had more than one child to put through the program. For a single child, it was less expensive to do the program through a provider. The website does not provide pricing information because PACE providers make their own rates, much as other professionals and tutors do. Seven years ago, when we did the program, the cost was $2,500 through our provider. Providers who work out of their homes sometimes are willing to charge less per hour; ours had an office (but eventually closed because he couldn't generate enough business to cover his overheads).

 

Incidentally, PACE does not require six hours a week of instruction. The standard program consists of 3 one-hour training sessions per week with the provider, plus an additional minimum of 3 hours of homework practice. The program can be modified to twice-weekly provider sessions too, but then it takes more weeks to complete.

 

In your situation, I would definitely consider using CogCal and keeping the Wilson tutor (assuming there is adequate progress with Wilson).

 

PACE eliminated almost all of the careless type math errors we had seen, so we didn't have to do much. Our biggest problem with math after PACE was dd's dysgraphia, which makes it impossible for her to do neat writing that shows all of her steps. If she writes neatly and shows all of her work, she can finish 1 problem for every 20 that other kids can finish. If she does all of the problems, she has to skip showing all non-essential steps and live with messiness in order to finish. (I would be very interested to learn of any dysgraphic who can make it in higher math. I just don't see how it could be done.)

 

There isn't much that can be done for copying errors and transpositions. However, to help with the operator aspect (+-x/) of math problems, it's a good idea to have her circle in color or highlight in color the operator before solving the problem. This helps establish the habit of paying attention to the operator. (The color helps a lot with that.)

[Doran]

Your best bet might be the Cognitive Calisthenics home program mentioned elsewhere on the board. ...

 

[snip]

 

In your situation, I would definitely consider using CogCal and keeping the Wilson tutor (assuming there is adequate progress with Wilson).

 

PACE eliminated almost all of the careless type math errors we had seen, so we didn't have to do much. Our biggest problem with math after PACE was dd's dysgraphia, which makes it impossible for her to do neat writing that shows all of her steps. If she writes neatly and shows all of her work, she can finish 1 problem for every 20 that other kids can finish. If she does all of the problems, she has to skip showing all non-essential steps and live with messiness in order to finish. (I would be very interested to learn of any dysgraphic who can make it in higher math. I just don't see how it could be done.)

 

There isn't much that can be done for copying errors and transpositions. However, to help with the operator aspect (+-x/) of math problems, it's a good idea to have her circle in color or highlight in color the operator before solving the problem. This helps establish the habit of paying attention to the operator. (The color helps a lot with that.)

 

 

I'll check out CogCal when I have a few minutes later today/night. I do recall seeing it on the board a little farther down, so I expect it will be simple enough to find the link. Thanks for the thoughtful advice (as always).

 

I also am having the thought that I should allow dd to write in her text book. The precedent setting there troubles me. I so want to guide her toward what might be expected long term...when writing in books is a big no-no. But, at this point, perhaps it would eliminate some of the struggles she has with transposition, etc. It's not a book we hope to use again as our other daughter is older. And, I bought it used, so the investment isn't so great either. Is this a lighbulb moment? :001_smile:

 

Doran

[Claire]

Is this a lighbulb moment? :001_smile:

 

Yes, I think so. :D

 

I do know that with my dd no amount of extra practice or copying math problems from textbooks seemed to help. It was much more important for her to understand what she was doing and become proficient at it. I have observed that her handwriting speed has improved because of the writing load she has had the last three years in public high school. (She's still much slower than her peers, but she's faster than she used to be and she can do it much longer now without becoming fatigued.) However, her math notation is no better, even though she has had to copy problems in high school.

 

CogCal isn't being marketed widely yet, so you would need to email or call Dr. Stephey, the program's originator. Here is his website with contact info. Be sure to mention the specific problems you have mentioned here and ask if the exercises are designed to address those problems. emonline, who posted in the Hierarchy of Therapy thread, posted that she contacted Dr. Stephey and that the kit is available by calling 626-332-4510. The kit is $225 plus shipping. If it's comparable to the old BrainSkills kit that would be quite a bargain, as BrainSkills was sold for $500.