WTM users: Please help me think through some practical questions...

[ssexton]

Let me first say that I've had the first edition of The WTM on my shelf for years. I read through it briefly when I first bought it, but my kids were K and preK at the time, and the ideas didn't stick with me. After reading the newest version, I'm completely sold! In particular, I love the logic stage practice of using history studies to develop synthesis and writing skills. I really want to put the outlining and research practices in to place next year. But I have two questions:

 

1. How do I teach two children who are very close in age, but in different stages of the trivium? My two oldest children will be 9 (4th grade) and 10 (5th grade) next fall. Both are reading well. My 5th grade ds is a history buff, and while he is not a natural writer or speller, I think he's ready for SWB's logic stage history recommendations. My 4th grade dd is not a history buff (but loves science), is strongly visual (struggles somewhat with read alouds) but likes to write.

 

I'm unclear as to how to meet both of my children's needs this upcoming year. We will be using MFW RtR next year, which seems adaptable to WTM ideas. But, how much do I read aloud? I imagine that it's important that my logic stage child begin to do more readings on his own--but my grammar age child still needs me to read aloud and do narrations. I could really use some help picturing what this should look like in practice.

 

2. How do I fit it all in? We have timeline, mapping, hands-on projects, book basket (extra reading) and notebooking (summary) pages incorporated in MFW. MFW schedules the Usborne Encyclopedia of World History, which I'd like to use for ds's list of 6-8 important details (per WTM) and the MFW notebook pages will suffice for written summaries. But I also want to add in (ala WTM) outlining of paragraphs and research opportunities. Plus, I need to find time for MFW's hands on activities, for my dd's sake. I know my ds needs the writing practice, but is there something here I can let go for the sake of getting in Latin, Math, Science and LA? Maybe we could do either the 6-8 details page or the outlined paragraphs? Maybe make the research papers monthly or even quarterly rather than weekly? Any thoughts? Please? :D

 

Thanks so much!

Shannon

Edited May 3, 2009 by ssexton

[Avila]

I know this won't completely answer you, but I just found these on the WTM site the other day, and they really helped me. If I had read the last one two years ago, I would never have left WTM and bounced around!

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/O98pattern.html

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/schedules.php

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/multiples.php

 

Best wishes!

[ssexton]

Shelly,

 

Thank you so much for those links! I'm going to print that last one out and put it in my teacher's binder--it was tremendously helpful. I'm still struggling I guess on the question of how much reading I should continue to do out loud? Does history become more of an individual study in logic stage? We do read a quality novel together at bedtime, and also enjoy reading some living science books together. Maybe that's enough?

 

Thanks for your thoughts!

Shannon

[ssexton]

Any other thoughts? :)

[katilac]

I put my responses in red.

 

 

Let me first say that I've had the first edition of The WTM on my shelf for years. I read through it briefly when I first bought it, but my kids were K and preK at the time, and the ideas didn't stick with me. After reading the newest version, I'm completely sold! In particular, I love the logic stage practice of using history studies to develop synthesis and writing skills. I really want to put the outlining and research practices in to place next year. But I have two questions:

 

1. How do I teach two children who are very close in age, but in different stages of the trivium? My two oldest children will be 9 (4th grade) and 10 (5th grade) next fall. Both are reading well. My 5th grade ds is a history buff, and while he is not a natural writer or speller, I think he's ready for SWB's logic stage history recommendations. My 4th grade dd is not a history buff (but loves science), is strongly visual (struggles somewhat with read alouds) but likes to write.

 

I'm unclear as to how to meet both of my children's needs this upcoming year. We will be using MFW RtR next year, which seems adaptable to WTM ideas. But, how much do I read aloud? I imagine that it's important that my logic stage child begin to do more readings on his own--but my grammar age child still needs me to read aloud and do narrations. I could really use some help picturing what this should look like in practice.

 

This is an easy one! We always read SOTW out loud (well, via cd) and we always have a supplementary read aloud going as well. Then, simply add in additonal readings for older son to do on his own.

 

We don't go subject by subject for schoolwork; instead, we do all the 'together' stuff at one time, and then the kids begin independent work. So we read and discuss history during together time, but timelines and outlines are done during independent time.

 

2. How do I fit it all in? We have timeline, mapping, hands-on projects, book basket (extra reading) and notebooking (summary) pages incorporated in MFW. MFW schedules the Usborne Encyclopedia of World History, which I'd like to use for ds's list of 6-8 important details (per WTM) and the MFW notebook pages will suffice for written summaries. But I also want to add in (ala WTM) outlining of paragraphs and research opportunities. Plus, I need to find time for MFW's hands on activities, for my dd's sake. I know my ds needs the writing practice, but is there something here I can let go for the sake of getting in Latin, Math, Science and LA? Maybe we could do either the 6-8 details page or the outlined paragraphs? Maybe make the research papers monthly or even quarterly rather than weekly? Any thoughts? Please? :D

 

Well, I can never contemplated using a history program that utilizes SOTW as one mere component, simply because I CAN'T imagine fitting it all in. SOTW with actiivity guide and supplemental reading is plenty for me! I think you'd be fine rotating between the two (outlining and detail pages. We don't do nearly the amount of outlining or writing called for in SOTW; doing it less often is still a very worthwhile process.

 

Thanks so much!

Shannon

 

The other thing I would add is that, if your two kids are in different stages, you need to always keep that in mind. My oldest is just finishing up 5th, and I was taken aback by how her level of work really took off this year. She's always been a 'good student,' but her 4th grade output paled in comparison to 5th grade (and it seemed to happen overnight).

 

It's fine to keep them together for certain subjects, as far as reading, discovering, and discussing go, but I found it was crucial to make different ASSIGNMENTS (what the student does with the info we just read and discussed).

 

When one kid makes that leap to logic stage, identical assignments can make the younger kid feel completely inadequate (no matter how much you reassure them). Semi-creative things like timeline pages were fine, but less open-ended things made younger dd frustrated as big sis finished them much more quickly, neatly and accurately.

[Suzannah]

Just wanted to offer a little encouragement. You have good suggestions here and in TWTM. Your older ones will begin doing more independent work (yes, they will...eventually). Your younger will probably want to be included in what the big kids are doing too, but don't require too much.

 

Here's an example of history in our family. Last year when my school-agers were 5th grade and K, we did history readings together with SOTW. I would sometimes print a coloring page for DD since she likes to color, but DS truly hates coloring so we don't normally do that. DS would do mapwork, narration and read supplementary material. If we had a movie we would watch that together.

 

This year they are 6th and 1st. We still read together and discuss the reading (sadly I've neglected narrations for the last few months...must correct that). They locate the places we've read about on the globe (DD goes first) then do the mapwork together. DD is then free to color a related picture or take a break. Sometime later in the week we might read an additional book. DS adds the main people and events to the timeline and does supplementary reading. I printed made forms for him to fill in on significant people because writing a summary on each one wasn't happening. He does write summaries of some of the lessons, but we use Classical Writing and Omnibus so I try not to overwhelm him.

 

Does that help? The thing that makes it doable for me is to just go ahead and make a shedule. Once I can see how the day looks I can understand it better. (I help DD with math while DS does math on his own. I check his math while DD works on handwriting. I check handwriting while DS works on writing assignment. etc.) And actually, at this point I don't really look at my schedule anymore. I remember what I need to know about which days we do which things and what should be done first thing in the morning rather than afternoon.

[ssexton]

Thanks so much for both of your replies!

 

Katilac, I appreciate the distinction you make between the reading and the actual assignments! That may be the key piece I was missing. I think we'll continue to read our spine together and possibly a supplemental novel. But then, they split up to do work on their own work. It seems so obvious now, but these two are so close in age and ability that they've always done the same thing (well, except for math and LA). But, it's become apparent my ds is moving into logic stage--so it's time. And how encouraging to hear how your dd has taken off in 5th grade! I hope my ds has a similar year!

 

Suzannah, thanks so much for showing me how you do it! I'm such a visual person--it helps to "see" it in practice through your words. What I'm hearing from you both is that I'm really going to need to think through my schedules and plan ahead for different individual assignments. Knowing me, I need to give this thought on the front end rather than trying to wing it.

 

Thanks so much!

Shannon