shehmeth Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 (edited) Hi, I wanted to see if anyone has combined Horizons math and MUS - I'm thinking of combining these for 1st Grade - Horizon 1st Grade and MUS Alpha: - What has been your experience like? - Challenges? - Rewards? - Tips? Advice? Feedback? I understand (please correct me if I'm mistaken) that Horizons uses a Spiral approach and that MUS uses a Mastery approach. We used Horizon K this year, and she has thrive using it, but then we found out about MUS, and we went yesterday to a MUS workshop and it clicks with me the way the concepts are explained (and the videos seen online click with her - she finds him funny and entertaining - I'm not sure if those clips happen to be the most entertaining ones out of the whole Dvd) but one thing make us not feel 100% at ease with MUS: Us (dh and me) - doing only one topic the whole year, and the desire to foster Mental Math and the fear that she might become dependent on manipulative... Her (dd) - we did the place value sample lesson, she understood the concept, and liked it but after a few days using the MUS sheets she asked to go back to her Horizons book, because she liked the way it look better but she added "we can still do this one (MUS) but not all the time, can we Mom?" - And that's what we've been doing, each time Horizon brings back a Placement value exercise in the workbook, we pull out those sample sheets and do them... Or if you have an idea of another program that would be a stand alone math curriculum, but combines the features of both of these, do let me know.. Thank you in advance... Kate Edited April 19, 2009 by shehmeth added a question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 I think using MUS for just the explanation with your current math program as the main program is a good idea. MUS as our only program was a disaster for us, but I pulled the blocks out yesterday to explain something.:D I wouldn't have her do the tests or the comulative review sheets. Just one sheet for each lesson (or even less) just to get the basic understanding down. Then you could resell the whole program too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shehmeth Posted April 19, 2009 Author Share Posted April 19, 2009 Carmen, What didn't work when you were using MUS as your only program? Kate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Or if you have an idea of another program that would be a stand alone math curriculum, but combines the features of both of these, do let me know.. K-12's math sounds really good. They use blocks that click together and follow a standard scope and sequence. My friend was just raving about it today at our Sunday meeting. She loves the way concepts are explained with manipulatives. I want to get a look at it. After using MUS and Horizons, we are very happy with Abeka. The curriculum plans explain everything very thoroughly and tell me exactly what to review when. DD can work on it independently after a little time with me. Love it, love it. We use coins and dominoes and marbles during the teaching part and the pictures on the worksheet during her independent working time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Carmen, What didn't work when you were using MUS as your only program? Kate There were a couple of things that I didn't like. One is the way he teaches subtraction. Instead of taking away blocks, you cover them up. Since DD had already learned subtraction by taking away during her K program, this just made her start all over again. Plus, since they don't take it away... I just think the concept of subtraction is missing. Emily was bored to death. She hated math. The same concept on the same looking worksheet for a year. It was awful. She actually forgot how to do what she previously knew and didn't learn a thing. She hates flashcards and we needed more drill but something about the MUS worksheets just doesn't work. She didn't like using the blocks because it is faster for her to do a Horizons or Abeka worksheet with the pictures. I don't know why but she even prefers pictures so strongly that she would draw her own on the MUS sheet instead of using the blocks. The way it teaches place value is great, I am glad we got that part, but other programs do a good job of this too, and a mom on here has her own free supplement for this as well. (I think it is Wee Pip.) You might start a thread asking for negative reviews of MUS. I have seen a lot of people say that it didn't work for them, just recently after I was so angry at MUS for a while that I was posting about it left and right. If you do a search with math and my name you will probably see more of our problems. I might do that, actually, but I've got to get busy now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iammommy Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 (edited) "K-12's math sounds really good. They use blocks that click together and follow a standard scope and sequence. My friend was just raving about it today at our Sunday meeting. She loves the way concepts are explained with manipulatives. I want to get a look at it." Just to warn you, K12 has revamped their elementary math program, and it will be a totally different program this fall. Those who have seen it, have said it will be good for kiddos who need manipulatives. HTH! Nan Edited April 19, 2009 by iammommy quote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandra in va Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Kate, My answers are below in green. Hope they help some. :001_smile: Hi, I wanted to see if anyone has combined Horizons math and MUS - I'm thinking of combining these for 1st Grade - Horizon 1st Grade and MUS Alpha: - What has been your experience like? We tried this combo for both 1st and 3rd grade this year. It worked well for my 3rd grader - he does one page in MUS and two pages (selected problems) in Horizons. I think they really do go well together. MUS helped with learning the math facts since it focuses on one fact family at a time. Horizons gave us breadth in our math - with lots of problem types and constant review. My first grader did not do as well. Horizons moved too quickly for her. Even MUS did not give enough practice problems to learn her facts, so we switched to Saxon 1 which moves more slowly and really drills the facts. So, it was her learning needs that required a switch. This doesn't sound like your daughter's case, I just wanted to share why it didn't work for my dd. Challenges - math takes longer and you have to keep up with 2 programs. Also they do not link perfectly - so you'll learn some things in Horizons before they get to them in MUS. (or vice versa - like you learn to multiply 2 2-digit numbers in MUS before you do in Horizons) Rewards - they get to see math from two viewpoints - two types of problems, book presentation, solving techniques. Her (dd) - we did the place value sample lesson, she understood the concept, and liked it but after a few days using the MUS sheets she asked to go back to her Horizons book, because she liked the way it look better but she added "we can still do this one (MUS) but not all the time, can we Mom?" - And that's what we've been doing, each time Horizon brings back a Placement value exercise in the workbook, we pull out those sample sheets and do them... I think that's a great way to combine them. If she can handle doing both everyday, the MUS worksheets are pretty short compared to horizons and can be done independently. Btw, I don't think developing a dependence on manipulatives should be a big worry. Manips are useful when showing how to do a problem, or if they get stuck...but I think you'll know when she's relying too much on them. Most of my kids would rather not use them b/c they take more time. It is faster to solve the problems on their own. For my 1st grader, I let her use the abacus (from Right Start) to help her when she's learning a new fact family, but then take it away when I feel that she's gaining proficiency to encourage memory/mental math. Right Start is a program that came to mind when you asked for alternatives that do both. We used all the levels of RS and loved it. However, it just takes too much teaching time for me to continue, so we switched to MUS/Horizons combo this year. Or if you have an idea of another program that would be a stand alone math curriculum, but combines the features of both of these, do let me know.. Thank you in advance... Kate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shehmeth Posted April 20, 2009 Author Share Posted April 20, 2009 Sandra, Have you heard of a program call MEP Math? with the 1st Grade MUS/Horizon - and the not linking - you di not find this confuse her? Thanks.. Kate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandra in va Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Sandra, Have you heard of a program call MEP Math? with the 1st Grade MUS/Horizon - and the not linking - you di not find this confuse her? Thanks.. Kate I haven't heard of MEP Math! I should research it, I love learning about new programs. :001_smile: Wrt my 1st grader - she had used Right Start A for K. When I switched to MUS/Horizons, I started just with MUS b/c I thought that would be enough for her, esp. since it was so different from RS. Also, Horizons was advanced for her. I started with a little bit of Horizons after she mastered the blocks and place value, and she would do a page or two every once in a while. So, honestly, we did not do the combo long enough for there to be too confusing. For the time we did use both, she didn't have any problem toggling between the two. Hope that answers your questions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FriedClams Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 (edited) If Horizons is working - and you say your DC is "thriving" - then why would you change it? We used MUS for Primer and Alpha, then backtracked with Critical Thinking 1 and then Horizons 2 and now 3. I loved the idea of MUS, but it lacked a lot of stuff for me - money, measurement, etc. It also seemed to really lack the repetition that younger kids need to cement facts. The scope was also too odd for me (but in theory it makes sense to me). When we did standardized testing I really saw the holes from MUS and was glad that we changed. For us, the switch to Horizons only has been great. The kids get the math, are thriving, and test prep was laughably easy this year. I think in the upper levels having a back-up to explain complex ideas might be helpful, but in 1-4th it's addition, subtraction, multiplication and division. Add in some fractions and you're there. Unless a kid is really having problems, I think it's overkill to do MUS and Horizons. The only thing I would consider adding to Horizons would be some additional word problems or math logic (critical thinking stuff). My kids are now working through 3rd and 2nd grade stuff - and I would advise you to find a math that you like and that works for your kid, and stick with that one. More is not always better - sometimes it's just more. (Can you tell I learned that from the above list of math I tried on my DD, LOL!!!!) I would only change if you have a problem or concerns, but not jump around with math. HTH - have a great time - sounds like you and DH are working together with a great kid!! :) Edited April 20, 2009 by Kayaking Mom made a mistake! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shehmeth Posted April 20, 2009 Author Share Posted April 20, 2009 SWM, When we chose Horizon we looked at different programs before hand... I was introduce to MUS after I had chosen Horizon, we tried their Sample lesson on Placement - she got the concept quickly and I Liked that.... That's why we were thinking if we should add MUS to our curriculum.... Kate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyAberlin Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 I did MUS Alpha and Horizons K this yr with a pre k. It has gone really well. But I'm dropping the horizons next yr because I feel the concept development is not as good as MUS and I feel it is pointless. But I am adding in Singapore along with MUS this yr instead. I really like the concept development from both of these. It wasn't difficult doing the 2 programs at all. We did 2 pgs horizons and 1 pg MUS and were done in 10 minutes or so. My son didn't complain. He calls MUS the important math. I don't know why he calls it that, but like I said I feel he's learned more from MUS. But all our kids are different obviously from others who felt horizons was better and dumped MUS. I'm also not concerned about block dependency. My son tries to do it without the blocks. Plus as a math person I know that having the facts down cold at this age isn't that big of a deal. They'll learn it or absord it eventually if the concepts are taught properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shehmeth Posted April 20, 2009 Author Share Posted April 20, 2009 LadyAberlin, So you did everyday both Horizons and MUS? (Trying to visualize a schedule here)... When I've done the sample MUS pages, I've done only MUS worksheets .... Kate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Ledge Academy Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Some of these issues may have already been addressed, but here is my 2 cents... We did MUS and then added Horizons bc MUS did not have a wide array of topics. I had liked the mastery approach, but the kids were becoming bored, or overwhelmed at staying on that same topic all the time. And when it came to testing, they did well in that one topic, but had little to no experience in other topics. Finally, I dropped MUS...even sold it! in the middle of the year and decided to finish out Horizons for the year. They were much more comfortable with this, felt as though they could actually get their math done, and were better prepared for the tests. My one that struggles with math actually thanked me for dropping MUS and said how fun Horizons is! I then thought I should go back to Saxon, where I had started years ago, but, then, why change a good thing? They all enjoy it, they are all doing well in it, and it's scope and sequence is what I wanted and is condsidered advanced if you work on their grade level. So, Horizons it is, and although I may still be tempted to look for greener grass, I need to stick with what is working for my kids, all of whom have very different learning styles. hth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 I had liked the mastery approach, but the kids were becoming bored, or overwhelmed at staying on that same topic all the time. And when it came to testing, they did well in that one topic, but had little to no experience in other topics. My experience was such that she was not doing well on anything. MUS had wiped her memory of any math knowledge that she prior had and she learned very little from MUS itself. She was not able to pass testing on the MUS topics themselves. And I agree with the statement in bold. In retrospect, for my DD, I should have gone with Miquon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyAberlin Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 In MUS each lesson lasts about a week if you do a page a day. We watch the video lesson together and then after that we do 1 pg MUS a day until that lesson is complete. We also do one lesson in horizons, which is 2 pgs. I don't try to match up the topics. We finish really quickly and it hasn't been that big of a deal to do both programs. I let my son pick which program we do first and so it varies from day to day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Just a tip: I had someone suggest that we watch the MUS lesson 2-3 times, or even every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shehmeth Posted April 21, 2009 Author Share Posted April 21, 2009 LadyAberlin - Thanks this is a great tip.. ;-) Kate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shehmeth Posted April 21, 2009 Author Share Posted April 21, 2009 Carmen, Have you done so? How has it been? Kate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shehmeth Posted April 21, 2009 Author Share Posted April 21, 2009 Maureen, I hear you and I understand when you say: "I may still be tempted to look for greener grass, I need to stick with what is working for my kids" - Thanks for sharing this note with me... Kate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Watching it everyday seemed to work better, but in the end, the horse was dead before I tried to revive it. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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