For ElizabethB: syllabary and Webster's Questions

[Gwenny]

ElizabethB (and anyone else who can answer my questions),

I have a few questions about how to teach the syllabary. I have a 5 yr old and we have worked through half of Phonics Pathways. She can read the words in the lessons (hates it though) but when she reads a book, I find she often gets lazy and guesses (or moans) at long words. She reads at the 2nd grade level (I think) and has a great memory for words. After she reads it a couple times, she memorizes it so has no need to sound most things out.

 

I want to get her sounding out more as she knows how but gets frustrated when she tries and then gives up. The syllabary and Webster's seems like a great approach but even after reading all the recent posts, I'm not sure how to go about it.

 

I have taught her to blend ba together to say "bah". How do I now tell her that ba says "bay", yet ab still says "ab"? I'm afraid I'll confuse her more than ever! Once I read more of Webster's, will this be clear to me? I'm excited to get started with this, but I wish I understood it a little better. I think I need to print out the first part of Webster's from Don Potter's site and read it over. When something is in my hands I can understand it so much better than on the computer.

Thanks,

Gwen

[Amber in AUS]

Maybe what you need to do is teach her how to look at a work and break it down into chunks 'syllables' so that she just has to sound part of the word then another part and put it together.

 

I have not taught my DD the syllables in isolation because she is an in context kid. We are using Webster's and i have seen a massive improvement in her reading since starting it. She is confident to tackle words and now looks for rules in words, is there a silent e, are their 2 vowels & which one is working?

 

She will understand that ba says both bah and bay it depends if it is 1 syllable or 2 in the word :-) I just wouldn't start there :-)

 

Just my 0.02c and ElizabethB will have heaps more to say i am sure.

[SophiaH]

I was in the same position as you as far as figuring out how to teach from Webster's. Have you read through Elizabeth's page on Websters? She has recently made a movie that really helped me to get started using it. You could also just start using her online phonics lessons, which give you a good idea of how to use Webster's as well.

 

Although I hesitate to speak much to this since Elizabeth is the expert and I only recently started using Webster's, I can at least tell you how we have been using it. We had used Phonics Pathways and then moved to OPG and were 3/4 of the way through that, but I was not impressed with the results. Therefore, we printed out the Speller from Don Potter's website. We went through each lesson on the syllabary (Table 1), just one lesson a day. Then we would get the white board out and I would say a syllable out loud and she would spell it for me. As we progressed through the first table, I would call out syllables from previous days for her to spell out as well as the lesson we were working on.

 

When we finished the first Table (the syllabary), I decided to add in the online phonics lessons. I was going to have her do one a day while we continued working in the syllabary, but after the first lesson, she begged to do the second!

 

When we got to Table 2, I had her go through Lesson 1 reading down. Day 2, I had her read through Lesson 1 across and then Lesson 2 down. (Reading down is easier since there is a pattern; reading across requires more from my dd). As long as she didn't have any trouble we continued in this fashion. If she stumbled on a couple of words, we would review that lesson again the next day. Every day, we would do the white board spelling with syllables and the new words she was reading. That also allowed me to check for any common errors.

 

Table 3 has been the fun part! Two syllable words: We do 5-8 words a day, reading and spelling them, reviewing along the way. She has really started figuring out the "mushing" of unstressed vowels that Elizabeth talks about (in the movie?)

 

Like Elizabeth suggests, we have limited her outside reading during this time. And like Amber, I have really seen her jump in her ability to read. Using the syllables and the nonsense language from the online phonics lessons has really made a difference! I noticed yesterday when she was trying to read an unfamiliar word, she deliberately moved her head from left to right like she was making herself sound it out instead of guess. Her confidence has gone up too. My daughter, too, Gwen, would give up as soon as she realized a word was not one that she knew or could figure out easily. Now she seems more willing to attempt to sound them out--like she has the tools to that she didn't before.

 

I hope I haven't bored you or confused you. I'm sure Elizabeth could have said all of this much clearer and more succinct, but I hope our experience has helped. I don't know if there is a "right" and "wrong" way to use Webster's--if there is I'm surely doing it wrong! LOL! But I am really excited about the results I'm seeing and I just want to encourage you that it can be done!

[Gwenny]

Thank you Heather,

That helped a lot! Somehow I had missed the movie from her website. It cleared up many of my questions. I wish my student was as cooperative as hers! My daughter couldn't read the word bliss the other day and when I asked her to sound it out instead of simply telling her the word, she nearly lost it!

Gwen

[ElizabethB]

Thank you Heather,

That helped a lot! Somehow I had missed the movie from her website. It cleared up many of my questions. I wish my student was as cooperative as hers! My daughter couldn't read the word bliss the other day and when I asked her to sound it out instead of simply telling her the word, she nearly lost it!

Gwen

 

She has her moments! But, she is cooperative overall. Handwriting was a fight until I found a good pencil grip. It's still a bit frustrating for her because she expects to have perfect letters the first time, but she's getting used to it. Also, math was frustrating for a while, much better now with Singapore and a Flashmaster. She is a perfectionist who likes praise but doesn't like excessive praise, so that's a fine line to walk. Her standards are very high! She'll often complain when I say "good job," and say that it wasn't a good job.

 

With both my daughter and my remedial students, when they balk at sounding out words, I have them play my phonics concentration game and don't give them points for their word unless they've sounded it out one sound at a time from left to right first. That clears the problem right up!

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Phonics/concentrationgam.html

 

My daughter used to get frustrated at long words until we worked through Webster's Speller.

 

I would just tell her that in syllables and words, be, bi, bo, bu, hi, go, mu say their long sounds, and that in syllables and words, vowels followed by a consonant will have their short sound. In words, a says "ah" as in ma and pa, but it says long a in syllables like ba-ker and ma-ker and ta-ble. Explain that the other way you taught her was just while she was learning to help her be able to more easily sound out 3 syllable words, and the syllables will teach her how to sound out all words, including very long words.

[ElizabethB]

Although I hesitate to speak much to this since Elizabeth is the expert and I only recently started using Webster's, I can at least tell you how we have been using it. We had used Phonics Pathways and then moved to OPG and were 3/4 of the way through that, but I was not impressed with the results. Therefore, we printed out the Speller from Don Potter's website. We went through each lesson on the syllabary (Table 1), just one lesson a day. Then we would get the white board out and I would say a syllable out loud and she would spell it for me. As we progressed through the first table, I would call out syllables from previous days for her to spell out as well as the lesson we were working on.

 

When we finished the first Table (the syllabary), I decided to add in the online phonics lessons. I was going to have her do one a day while we continued working in the syllabary, but after the first lesson, she begged to do the second!

 

When we got to Table 2, I had her go through Lesson 1 reading down. Day 2, I had her read through Lesson 1 across and then Lesson 2 down. (Reading down is easier since there is a pattern; reading across requires more from my dd). As long as she didn't have any trouble we continued in this fashion. If she stumbled on a couple of words, we would review that lesson again the next day. Every day, we would do the white board spelling with syllables and the new words she was reading. That also allowed me to check for any common errors.

 

Table 3 has been the fun part! Two syllable words: We do 5-8 words a day, reading and spelling them, reviewing along the way. She has really started figuring out the "mushing" of unstressed vowels that Elizabeth talks about (in the movie?)

 

Like Elizabeth suggests, we have limited her outside reading during this time. And like Amber, I have really seen her jump in her ability to read. Using the syllables and the nonsense language from the online phonics lessons has really made a difference! I noticed yesterday when she was trying to read an unfamiliar word, she deliberately moved her head from left to right like she was making herself sound it out instead of guess. Her confidence has gone up too. My daughter, too, Gwen, would give up as soon as she realized a word was not one that she knew or could figure out easily. Now she seems more willing to attempt to sound them out--like she has the tools to that she didn't before.

 

I hope I haven't bored you or confused you. I'm sure Elizabeth could have said all of this much clearer and more succinct, but I hope our experience has helped. I don't know if there is a "right" and "wrong" way to use Webster's--if there is I'm surely doing it wrong! LOL! But I am really excited about the results I'm seeing and I just want to encourage you that it can be done!

 

That was perfect, actually! And, it's good to know that a "normal" homeschooling mom (although I would hesitate to lump people teaching Latin into "normal"--and I mean that in a good way) can use Webster's Speller with just my movie and a bit of advice.

 

The "vowel mushing" is something you really do have to see, and is even more amazing to see it with ESL students who have a very hard time normally with multi-syllable English words. I hadn't realized how stress dependent English was until I started using Webster's Speller.