Looking for feedback on Zoo-phonics

[LynnG in Arizona]

Has anybody here used this program? Somebody on the Sonlight board recommended it to me, and I like what I've seen so far on the website:

 

http://www.zoo-phonics.com/home.htm

 

I've had a hard time finding anybody else who has actually used the program before, however, especially in a homeschooled setting. I would love some feedback on the "good, the bad, and the ugly" about this program.

 

I'm a homeschool "veteran", but have never taught phonics before since we started at 4th grade with my older kids. Now I have an eager 3 year old who is expressing interest in letters, and it's time to plan for next year . . . so here we go. :)

 

Thanks so much!

[LynnG in Arizona]

bump :)

[LynnG in Arizona]

Ok, case in point . . . nobody seems to have any feedback on Zoo-Phonics. :)

 

Trying one more time to bump this up for informations.

 

Thanks!

[YHZNS]

Last spring I tried to find reviews of this product. It looks interesting. The animal aspect would intrigue my 2 year old. I just wonder if the program creates an additional step that will be hard to overcome (phase out the animal shaped letters). Anyone?

[Mesa]

Our public school uses it and my son left kindy reading at a 3rd grade level.

I think it's a good program. I have no clue what they do though lol. I know in pre-k they teach letter sounds before they teach letter names.

This was before our homeschooling days.

I currently use Abeka phonics and LOVE it.

Edited February 10, 2009 by Mesa

[Terabith]

It's a decent program. It's fun, and kids like it. It's very multisensory, using hand/ body motions, and animals that start with the letters.

 

It's a good program for little kids. It's a little expensive, and I don't know that I'd find it worth it, but it could be a good program for a three year old that is interested in letters/ sounds. Although you could just get a copy of Leap Pad Letter Factory, or you could come up with your own chant/ action/ animal for a letter. But, that would also be a bit of work.

[LynnG in Arizona]

Our public school uses it and my son left kindy reading at a 3rd grade level.

I think it's a good program.

 

That's very impressive. Thank you for your comments! :)

[LynnG in Arizona]

It's a decent program. It's fun, and kids like it. It's very multisensory, using hand/ body motions, and animals that start with the letters.

 

It's a good program for little kids. It's a little expensive, and I don't know that I'd find it worth it, but it could be a good program for a three year old that is interested in letters/ sounds. Although you could just get a copy of Leap Pad Letter Factory, or you could come up with your own chant/ action/ animal for a letter. But, that would also be a bit of work.

 

Thank you, Terabith. I do like the multisensory aspect - I've got a wiggly little boy who will be doing the program in a couple years. :001_smile:

 

Funny you say that - my 3 yo does love her Letter Factory DVD, and has been thrilled to learn her letters and letter sounds this way. But as well done as that DVD is, I know she will need more phonics than that.

 

And you're right . . . it is pricey. But I like what I've seen so far.

[Terabith]

My only concern is that while it does a pretty good job of teaching the sounds of the letters, from what I've seen, I haven't seen a full fledged phonics program. IThe teaching of the letter sounds seems to be its strength. t doesn't seem to do a ton with multi-letter phonograms or rules/ decoding. But, I've only seen the preschool/ kindergarten program. I'd be hesitant to use it as a full phonics program. Introduction, sure. But not as the whole program.

[LynnG in Arizona]

My only concern is that while it does a pretty good job of teaching the sounds of the letters, from what I've seen, I haven't seen a full fledged phonics program. IThe teaching of the letter sounds seems to be its strength. t doesn't seem to do a ton with multi-letter phonograms or rules/ decoding. But, I've only seen the preschool/ kindergarten program. I'd be hesitant to use it as a full phonics program. Introduction, sure. But not as the whole program.

 

Thanks for writing again, Terabith!

 

Your comments genuinely surprised me, about this not being a full phonics program. Not to sound defensive, I don't mean it that way because I haven't even seen the program in person yet. ;) But I have looked at the Scope and Sequence, as well as some samples from the teacher's manual from several different levels. And to me, it looks like it is a full phonics program. In grade 1, they even begin teaching spelling.

 

If anything, I was surprised when I got the teacher's manual samples, because they were fuller and longer than I would have guessed.

 

I am truly not trying to be snarky here, because 1) I asked for feedback, and 2) I admittedly have never taught phonics before. But could you please clarify your remarks? Have you yourself used the program, and if so, for how long? I mean that sincerely . . . if this is truly just a program to teach letter sounds, I really can just stick with our Leapfrog DVD. My wallet would be very happy. :D

 

I guess what I'm looking for is a complete phonics program that will have a bit of fun and color to it. I want to engage both my little ones - my animal-loving 3 yo and my wiggly boy who will be following her. I've looked at some of the other phonics programs that many WTM people seem to enjoy, such as Phonics Pathways and Ordinary Parent's Guide, and they just seem to be too dry to be a good fit for our family (even though I'm sure the instruction is solid). Not that I expect phonics to be one giant carnival game either, but a wee bit of fun would be nice.

 

Anyway . . . a sincere thanks for any and all input. :)

Edited February 11, 2009 by LynnG in Hawaii

[Terabith]

ack! double post

Edited February 11, 2009 by Terabith

[Terabith]

Well, to be fair, what I've seen is the preschool program. So, you've probably seen more than I have! I teach music part time at a preschool that just began using it. My concern is the multiletter phonograms and teaching the "rules" to decoding. But, I'm a fan of more thorough programs like Ordinary Parent's Guide or Spalding.

 

You could use this to get him up and reading and then teach a more systematic spelling program when he's older. I did that with my daughter: after she knew the sounds, we went through Headsprout to get her reading pretty quickly and are now going back and doing more thorough decoding with ETC and Dancing Bears. Later we'll go into even more depth with Spalding spelling.

 

What I've seen in the preschool program is tons of great multisensory stuff for teaching the sounds, and then sort of an expectation that kids will more or less spontaneously take their knowledge of sounds and use them to build words. In my experience, while some kids do this well, a lot of kids need a lot more explicit instruction in blending and segmenting. Which are really more phonemic awareness/ oral activities than phonics, per se. But it's a big developmental gap from identifying the sounds in the word cat to sounding it out. And it becomes even more challenging when you get into things like the long o sound being spelled with o at the end of a syllable, with o consonant e, or oa. Etc. I haven't seen that level of sophistication, even though there is a lot of what there is. Does that make any sense?

 

But, I've only examined the preschool package in depth. The first grade program does look more elaborate, but it still does not look like a complete phonics program to me. Doesn't look like it addresses the third sound of a (like in father), for instance.

 

I think it would be fun, but I think it might make learning to read both unnecessarily cumbersome in terms of activities and manipulatives, but not quite thorough enough for it to really be cemented.

 

I think what I might do, prior to ordering the entire set, would be to get the Read and Spell with Zoophonics cdrom for the computer. I think that might do a good job teaching the sounds and signals, and it sounds like it teaches blending and early reading skills. If that's a success, then I might talk to a representative and see what the full kit adds.

[Mesa]

Let me answer you question in more detail.

My son was in kindy and was pulled out of school 4 weeks into 1st grade. We then bought Abeka 1st grade materials to use with him. He already knew everything Abeka was teaching. We still continued to use Abekas phonics program just to be sure my son didnt have any holes in his knowledge. (He didnt. He had an excellent kindy teacher. She went above and beyond for the students in her class.)

When my second child was ready for phonics I really had a tough time choosing between Abeka and Zoo Phonics. I went with Abeka because it was just as thorough and a bit cheaper than Zoo phonics.

Zoo Phonics is a good program though.

[LynnG in Arizona]

Well, to be fair, what I've seen is the preschool program. So, you've probably seen more than I have! I teach music part time at a preschool that just began using it. My concern is the multiletter phonograms and teaching the "rules" to decoding. But, I'm a fan of more thorough programs like Ordinary Parent's Guide or Spalding.

 

You could use this to get him up and reading and then teach a more systematic spelling program when he's older. I did that with my daughter: after she knew the sounds, we went through Headsprout to get her reading pretty quickly and are now going back and doing more thorough decoding with ETC and Dancing Bears. Later we'll go into even more depth with Spalding spelling.

 

What I've seen in the preschool program is tons of great multisensory stuff for teaching the sounds, and then sort of an expectation that kids will more or less spontaneously take their knowledge of sounds and use them to build words. In my experience, while some kids do this well, a lot of kids need a lot more explicit instruction in blending and segmenting. Which are really more phonemic awareness/ oral activities than phonics, per se. But it's a big developmental gap from identifying the sounds in the word cat to sounding it out. And it becomes even more challenging when you get into things like the long o sound being spelled with o at the end of a syllable, with o consonant e, or oa. Etc. I haven't seen that level of sophistication, even though there is a lot of what there is. Does that make any sense?

 

But, I've only examined the preschool package in depth. The first grade program does look more elaborate, but it still does not look like a complete phonics program to me. Doesn't look like it addresses the third sound of a (like in father), for instance.

 

I think it would be fun, but I think it might make learning to read both unnecessarily cumbersome in terms of activities and manipulatives, but not quite thorough enough for it to really be cemented.

 

I think what I might do, prior to ordering the entire set, would be to get the Read and Spell with Zoophonics cdrom for the computer. I think that might do a good job teaching the sounds and signals, and it sounds like it teaches blending and early reading skills. If that's a success, then I might talk to a representative and see what the full kit adds.

 

Terabith, you are truly kind to take so much time in replying to me. Thank you! :) I really appreciate your input. That's a great suggestion about trying out the CDRom.

 

Lots to think about. Thank you again!

[LynnG in Arizona]

Let me answer you question in more detail.

My son was in kindy and was pulled out of school 4 weeks into 1st grade. We then bought Abeka 1st grade materials to use with him. He already knew everything Abeka was teaching. We still continued to use Abekas phonics program just to be sure my son didnt have any holes in his knowledge. (He didnt. He had an excellent kindy teacher. She went above and beyond for the students in her class.)

When my second child was ready for phonics I really had a tough time choosing between Abeka and Zoo Phonics. I went with Abeka because it was just as thorough and a bit cheaper than Zoo phonics.

Zoo Phonics is a good program though.

 

Jackie, I really appreciate your expanded reply. Thank you very, very much. It sounds like your son had a great Kindergarten foundation!

 

I will have to take a look at Abeka as well. Thanks again for your response. :)

[mktyler]

While Zoo Phonics is not one of the programs I purchased when remediated my daughter, I noticed a few things while going through their website.

 

1)their emphasis on lowercase letters and letter sounds (as opposed to letter names) is wonderful. It eliminates confusion.

 

2)the emphasis on the alphabet as a "whole" is misplaced. The alphabet represents the letter shapes used in our writing, however, our reading and spelling system is based on the 43+ sounds of English, employing those 26 letters in varying positions and groups. Each letter represents multiple sounds.

 

3)it uses word families. This is not the most efficient method, and can be detrimental for some children. Word families represent a small group of words, so they are not particularly transferrable. The teaching of word families can cause some kids to become confused and about the direction of reading and develop eye tracking problems as the emphasis of practice and instruction is the end of the word. Every word needs to be worked through from left to right. On the other hand, other kids can get lazy and not pay attention to the end of the word because the patterns make it easy to zone out when reading a list; this can lead to part word guessing. Finally, often the rime unit (the ending of the words, such as -at) is memorized as a whole, rather than each letter. This increases memory load which can complicate instruction.

 

4) The fact that common "sight" words are taught phonemically is a plus.

 

5) It really teaches very little. The alphabet, plus a few digraphs (14 according to the scope and sequence), the long sounds of the vowels, plus final-e. There are over 400 possible letter-sound units in English. Adult level text has 300+. Most thorough phonics programs (such as Phonics Pathways and OPGTR) teach about 150. This one teaches about 50. So you are not getting much information for a lot of money.

 

6) and just a thought based on my own kids. They would really struggle to read a word with the animal pictures as part of the letters, because the animal names would interfere with trying to "hear" the word in the sounds.

 

7) research into cognitive load theory would indicate that the animal mnemonic could slow learning the sounds as it introduces an extra step in linking the letters and the sounds. The extra step can lose some kids.

 

In general, this has some quality ideas about instruction (phonemic instruction for all words, emphasis on sounds rather than names of letters), but it is mixed in with a lot that has been discredited in some circles (word families), and other things that haven't been validated (the animal mnemonic theme)

 

I agree that many kids need something fun. For a lot less money and instruction in about the same amount of material try Jolly Phonics Handbook. Available from Amazon.com, it is a program developed in the UK and has hand signals and coloring pages for each spelling. Depending on your children, they will take off with this, or they may need much more thorough explicit instruction in the rest of the code (my daughter needed about 220 sound-spelling correspondences taught before she was confident enough to read on her own). You can decide what to go on to when you get to that point.

 

Best wishes,

 

Melissa

Minnesota

Reading Program Junkie

dd(10) dd(6) ds(4) ds(1)

[LynnG in Arizona]

Melissa,

 

Wow! I am humbled that you took so much time and effort to go through your thoughts on this program with me. It sounds like you have a pretty extensive background on phonics/reading programs?

 

You (and Terabith) have definitely given me a lot to think about, and to watch out for.

 

I don't know why this is such a difficult decision for me. Maybe it's because I myself was a very early reader, but hated phonics and never really "got" it? I remember literally sitting in first grade and inwardly groaning whenever it was time to do phonics. Yet I was a good reader and speller. :confused:

 

To be honest, some of the phonics programs I've looked at (such as Ordinary Parent's Guide, Phonics Pathways, etc.) just take me right back to those days when I was six years old and hated phonics. They just seem so dry and unappealing to me, and I know in my heart I am going to dread teaching something like that. I'm a big believer that, especially when your kids are young, it is important that the homeschooling parent like the teaching materials a bit as well. ;)

 

I don't mean to sound infantile. Again, I don't expect our phonics program to be the equivalent of a day at Disneyland. I would just like it to have a bit of appeal to both adults and children. And I'm having a *really* hard time of finding a phonics program that contains both solid, thorough instruction and an engaging appeal.

 

What do you all recommend that has both? What do you all use and like? (I know Abeka has already been mentioned.) Have you looked at ABeCeDarian? Sing, Spell, Write, Read?

 

A sincere thanks to all of you who are patiently answering my questions. I appreciate it. I've homeschooled for 7 years now, but for some reason this phonics thing is really killing me. :willy_nilly:

[Terabith]

I LOVE ABeCeDarian. I think it is a wonderful program. However, it's not what I would consider "fun." Not sure about your thoughts on computer, but you might look into Headsprout and/ or Read Write Type. They are decent phonics programs, but have fun in the graphics, etc.

 

The Jolly Phonics handbook has a lot of fun stuff. The CD Rom for Zoophonics really might not be a bad thing. Would be a good introduction and pretty fun. I haven't used Sing, Spell, Read, Write, but I've heard some kids like it a lot.

 

He's only three, though, right?

[mktyler]

Lynn,

 

I don't mean to sound infantile.

 

I don't think you sound infantile! I have the same problem with Shurley Grammar. My daughter loves it, she is learning from it, I hate it. We are switching to something I can stand to get out.

 

It sounds like you have a pretty extensive background on phonics/reading programs?

 

I have been studying reading programs and reading research for 5 years, ever since I encountered troubles instructing my oldest daughter. I ended up analyzing the phonetic structure of 17,000 words so I could create my own reading program that fit the research and would be incremental enough, logical, and thorough enough for my daughter.

 

To be honest, some of the phonics programs I've looked at (such as Ordinary Parent's Guide, Phonics Pathways, etc.) just take me right back to those days when I was six years old and hated phonics.

 

One thing that might help you is to realize that you ALREADY knew phonics when you were being made to sit through those lessons. You may not have been conscious of it, only knowing that you could read, however, if you could work from left to right, saying the sounds in a word, adjust the sounds till the word made sense, then you knew phonics. Explicit phonics is designed to teach this. Some kids get it without much help. Others need it taught very clearly and thoroughly for them to be able to use it in their reading. It makes sense to be prepared to teach as extensively as necessary so that your children do not face the opposite experience you had, that is, a sense of failure because not enough information was taught and enough practice done for them to read comfortably on their own.

 

What do you all recommend that has both? What do you all use and like? (I know Abeka has already been mentioned.) Have you looked at ABeCeDarian? Sing, Spell, Write, Read?

 

I am currently using the program I developed for my kids. I am so glad to have this because it has made things so much easier, as after all my research and seeing where kids go wrong, I am a perfectionist about reading instruction.

 

Jolly Phonics Handbook has actions and coloring pages and is a good start (I would only suggest, as I can't remember exactly how its presented, to teach the tricky words as sounds instead of as wholes. You can just say, this is a spelling you haven't learned yet, but it's useful in this word.)

 

ABeCeDarian is a solid program, though it is workbook based and may activate your sense of rebellion.:)

 

Sing Spell Write Read is not one I am directly familiar with, so I can only give anecdotal information. You might look at homeschoolreviews.com to get other people's experiences. Those that did not like it mainly said that the activities were too much, too repetitive, and too time consuming. There is little info available about its scope and sequence, so I can only infer from posts that there is a large sight word component, which is not a good thing to start with.

 

I would suggest the I See Sam books. Its a complete reading program in books. Its incremental and thorough and easy to use. The stories are engaging, and there are easy mechanisms to ensure proper sounding out. You can look at them at these sites: roadstoeverywhere.com and iseesam.com. The best help information and exposition of the books is at a UK site: piperbooks.co.uk

 

I would recommend starting with Jolly Phonics and then moving on to the I See Sam books.

 

Best wishes,

Melissa

Minnesota

Reading Program Junkie

dd(10) dd(6) ds(4) ds(1)

Edited February 11, 2009 by mktyler

[LynnG in Arizona]

I LOVE ABeCeDarian. I think it is a wonderful program. However, it's not what I would consider "fun." Not sure about your thoughts on computer, but you might look into Headsprout and/ or Read Write Type. They are decent phonics programs, but have fun in the graphics, etc.

 

The Jolly Phonics handbook has a lot of fun stuff. The CD Rom for Zoophonics really might not be a bad thing. Would be a good introduction and pretty fun. I haven't used Sing, Spell, Read, Write, but I've heard some kids like it a lot.

 

He's only three, though, right?

 

Terabith,

 

You have been extremely kind to keep up this dialogue. Thank you, thank you!! I am off to check out Jolly Phonics, and I think your idea of considering the Zoo Phonics CD is a good one.

 

Thanks again! :)

 

Lynn

[LynnG in Arizona]

Melissa,

 

My power just flickered off right as I had almost completed a nice long post to you. :glare:

 

I do want to thank you so very much for spending so much time and energy on your responses to me. It is incredibly impressive that you actually made your own reading program based on your particular daughter's needs. She is lucky to have you! :)

 

You are right that I probably hated phonics because I already "knew" the basics. My mom had taught me to read at an early age at home, just using books around the house.

 

I actually taught my older daughters to read in a similar fashion, using the BOB books. I worked with my 5 yo using the BOB books, completed the series, and found out to my shock that my 3 yo had actually picked up everything via osmosis and was actually fluently reading herself. :eek:

 

I think that's why I'm already looking at phonics programs, even though dd#3 is only 3 years old. She is already expressing a lot of interest in letters and their sounds, and I have a feeling that she will be ready to take the next step within the next year or so.

 

I have looked at ABeCeDarian, and it actually seems like something I could use. I am definitely willing to give it a shot in order to give my two little ones a solid foundation in phonics. I will seriously consider Jolly Phonics and/or the I See Sam books as well.

 

A million thanks for your input, everybody! :grouphug:

 

Lynn