English Lessons Through Literature or Grammar for the Well Trained Mind

[amyrachele]

I searched the forums but could not find a comparison. Has anyone tried both and have a preference? 

[HomeAgain]

You're asking different questions.

Grammar for the Well Trained Mind is a high school level grammar-only course.  It can be difficult, but a student should be well prepared by that point to do the rotation (first part of each of the books, then the second part of each book, then...) for a moderate pace.

ELTL stops right about at high school.  It is "lightly rigorous".  Every year reviews briefly from the year before (after Blossoming) and continues on, extending into diagramming and memorization while also working with literature, teaching writing skills, and teaching art skills.

We started with First Language Lessons (elementary WTM grammar) and my son didn't like it at all.  We spent the next 5 years with ELTL because my son liked the integration into stories, and the last year continued with a "review" using the last level we used and newer material to pull from.

[amyrachele]

7 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

You're asking different questions.

Grammar for the Well Trained Mind is a high school level grammar-only course.  It can be difficult, but a student should be well prepared by that point to do the rotation (first part of each of the books, then the second part of each book, then...) for a moderate pace.

ELTL stops right about at high school.  It is "lightly rigorous".  Every year reviews briefly from the year before (after Blossoming) and continues on, extending into diagramming and memorization while also working with literature, teaching writing skills, and teaching art skills.

We started with First Language Lessons (elementary WTM grammar) and my son didn't like it at all.  We spent the next 5 years with ELTL because my son liked the integration into stories, and the last year continued with a "review" using the last level we used and newer material to 

Oh, okay. I was under the impression that you could use both of them through middle school. Thank you!

[TheAttachedMama]

On 8/5/2024 at 3:48 PM, HomeAgain said:

Grammar for the Well Trained Mind is a high school level grammar-only course. 

I respectfully disagree.   (Sorry!).    I would say that the vast majority of kids complete grammar prior to high school.   Don't get me wrong, you SHOULD teach grammar in high school if your student missed it for some reason.  Just like you need to teach about fractions and decimals in math if your student missed that for some reason.   But the vast majority of students following a classical education, especially those using Well Trained Mind recommendations, complete grammar prior to high school.   Most students move straight into the Rhetoric stage once in high school.   In fact, I was told by the experts in this forum that listing grammar on a high school transcript can even look remedial in certain circumstances.   Also, Susan Wise Bauer recommends using the curriculum as a follow up to her elementary level program (First Language Lessons.).  

 

OP--I've used both programs.   But I've only used ELTL in the elementary years.   BOTH are VERY solid programs--so you really can't go wrong with either choice.  Both will include HEAVY diagramming and SOLID grammar instruction.   Both are also very easy to teach even if you aren't very good at grammar (like me!)   One huge difference is that ELTL is more of a complete language arts program, whereas GFTWM is *only* grammar.   ELTL includes literature (obviously), grammar, and composition.   Once you get into middle school (ELTL Level D and up), ELTL uses the progymnasmata method to teaching writing.    Whether or not the progymnasmata is right for your student is what you need to decide.   If you decide that you don't like that method of teaching composition, you might want to use GFWTM since you could use any separate composition program you want.  

[Lori D.]

Agreeing with @TheAttachedMama -- grammar is usually completed by the end of 8th grade, as grammar is then put into practice in Writing and Foreign Language, rather than as a separate subject. Some people like to do a very light grammar review during the high school years to make it easier to apply the Grammar, or in prep for ACT or SAT testing.

Grammar For the Well-Trained Mind is for late elementary/middle school (or possibly remedial high school). The program is listed as being for grades 5 and up, for use after First Language Lessons. It is strictly Grammar. There are four "years" of workbooks (Red, Yellow, Blue, Purple) that are all similar, so there is no order to them, and you may not need more than 1 or 2, since all 4 contain similar, repeated practice.

First Language Lessons is strictly Grammar, and is for early elementary grades and comes in 4 levels:
Level 1 = grades 1//2
Level 2 = grades 1/2
Level 3 = grade 3/4
Level 4 = grade 4/5

English Lessons Through Literature covers Grammar (including Diagramming), Writing, Spelling, and Copywork. It comes in 8 levels, for elementary through middle school grades:
Level A = grades 1/2
Level B = grades 2/3
Level C = grades 3/4
Level D = grades 4/5
Level E = grades 5/6
Level F = grades 6/7
Level G = grades 7/8
Level H = grades 8/9

No personal experience with either, but from looking through sample pages:

- GftWTM looks like a traditional, formal type of presentation of material, which would fit students who are more independent working, and either like or don't mind more textbook style info and exercises.

- ELTL looks a bit all over the place in their literature choices for each grade level. The student would need to be a good fit for learning Spelling through dictation, as that is the method used. Grammar is taught in context of a passage from the literature. Overall, if wanting to use all of the language arts (LA) components in ELTL, because all of the LA is integrated, the student would need to be roughly at-grade-level (not accelerated in some LA areas, or behind in other LA areas). That can be especially hard in the early elementary grades, as many students naturally are NOT all "at grade level" with all of the LA areas -- often their brains are primed to race ahead in some areas, while lagging in others, then plateau in the racing-ahead areas, and catching up in other areas... 

Edited August 14 by Lori D.

[SilverMoon]

Grammar for the Well Trained Mind could certainly be used by a highschooler if they really needed a grammar review, but I would not classify it as a highschool book. My dysgraphic kid used a level in 6th grade and did well. We used it as intended and slowed it down if the writing was heavy, which meant he did not finish the level. If we wanted another round of GftWTM I could just order another level.