Thanks

[DawnM]

I think I have some good questions.   I shouldn't have posted the question.

If you have quoted me, can you please delete it?

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by DawnM

[Lecka]

I would ask about the behavior needs of the other children.

 

I would ask if they were trained in CPS (or crisis prevention or whatever it is called).  If they are not, I would ask why not.  
 

I would ask how they handle behavior issues.  
 

I would ask how they inform parents.  Consider stating in writing you want to be informed.

 

I would ask if they have a policy on restraint and seclusion.  Consider stating in writing you are opposed.  
 

Ask if they are doing the same academic level as in the regular classroom.  
 

I would ask if they have recess and lunch on their own or with the rest of the school.  I would ask if they go to music and PE.  I would ask if they will attend field trips with their grade level.  I would ask how they will appear in the yearbook (are they their own class with their own teacher in the yearbook, or are they technically assigned to another classroom).  
 

I would ask if this is the home school for all the kids.  I would ask what the next level is for kids who need a higher level of support (more for information in general than because it might come up for you — it’s an informative thing to ask I think).  
 

I’ll see if I think of more.  
 

I don’t know what his IEP looks like but I would ask questions about how they will follow his IEP.  

 

 

[Lecka]

I would also ask for more details about their social-emotional program.  Is the stuff for 5-year-olds specifically for 5-year-olds.  I would ask if I could see samples.  I would ask what training was done by whoever will do this — did they go to a training, was it their major in college?  I would ask if they have specific goals and how they will monitor progress (will it be by observation?).

I would ask if with such a small ratio, they have a plan to transition kids back to the regular classroom size.  
 

I would ask if they are concerned about kids getting too dependent on the teacher with such a small ratio.  

[Lecka]

Will he have a traditional morning time or circle time?  
 

I would ask if there will be a “least restrictive placement” determination — is it considered that kind of thing or not.  

[Lecka]

I would say “so, I’ve heard with programs like this, the hope is it’s one year or less than one year…. What are you looking for to show kids are ready to go back…. How do they transition back…. Do kids stay another year or so they move to another program, if they aren’t showing readiness.”

[Lecka]

I would ask how much they are on screens, and if they use screens as rewards.  

[Lecka]

I would ask how often the lead teacher is out doing meetings, and who is there when the lead teacher is out.  
 

What happens when there is a sub?

[Drama Llama]

2 hours ago, DawnM said:

I have been talking to a mom whose son is in the program so I think I have a decent understanding of most of it, but curious if some of you have suggestions on what to ask when I go tour on Monday.   She speaks highly of the program and has a 1st grader there right now.

So, just some background.   This program is not new as a program, but they only recently opened a program inside of an elementary school in our district.   It is a program that typically has kids come for up to a year and then go back to their home assigned school.

He will be in a classroom with up to 12 kids (they currently have 7) and they will be K-5 all in one room.   When i spoke to the director a couple of days ago, he said they have four K-1 kids and then 3 who are 4th-5th.   

They separate them, so the K-1 goes with a teacher  for academics and the older kids do the social/emotional/trauma informed work, then they flip-flop, so being with the older kids all day won't be as much of an issue as I was concerned about.

What questions would you ask? 

 

I would ask what the ratio is now, and what the plan is for ratios when there are 12 kids.  There is no way that 12 to 2 is an appropriate ratio for kids who need the most restrictive environment.  

I think that the most likely places for aggression to happen between kids are lunch and recess.  Splitting for instruction is great, and necessary, but I would ask about ratios at that time. 

I agree with @Lecka that having a clear sense of policies on restraint and seclusion is critical.  I would not allow my five year old to be in a program that uses seclusion, even with an agreement that they wouldn't use it on him.

I would ask for their track record on moving kids back to gen ed.  I taught Kindergarten in a highly restrictive special education program that told every parent that their goal was to return kids to gen ed in a couple years, but the majority of my kindergarteners were still there at high school graduation.  

[Lecka]

My daughter’s friend was in one where a lot of kids really did stay less than one year, but they would have to think they were ready with enough time to start spending gradually increasing time with a regular class.  
 

My daughter’s friend would get in trouble during this process and then they would reduce the time or stop it.  
 

So she never transitioned out of it while she was in elementary school.  
 

But I think it was a good program for her, she didn’t spend all her time in trouble.  

 

[Lecka]

I might not be right about this, but I think there can be a question of if he could be in the regular class with more support.  Could he have an aide or something in the regular class.  
 

I think it has to either actually be better for him or actually be necessary for him.  
 

There should be a serious discussion of this if he has been in a regular classroom with what sounds like “not good enough” support.  Have they tried increasing his support.  
 

The thing is if you are agreeing to this because it’s for one year, the truth is it is going to depend on how he’s doing.  You can’t go too much about the generic other kids in the program, what about the kids most similar to your son.  Not the kid with the least severe issue, unless that is a good comparison.  
 

It shouldn’t be skipped over because “this is just for one year” unless there’s really good reason to think that.  
 

Not that I think it means it’s not the right choice, just that it can be possible to just skip over a lot of things if the expectation is one year passes and everything is great.  Well, if one year passes and there are still some ongoing issues, it’s a possibility, it’s likely it will be the case for some kids in the program sometimes.  
 

Maybe you can ask how he fits into the class, or maybe you have got information like “he does do well with x, y, z” or he has made progress or he has issues that are very likely to decrease with age (like — if he is touching people in circle time, that seems to just go away for a lot of kids).  

[DawnM]

5 hours ago, Lecka said:

I would ask about the behavior needs of the other children.

They will not share anything about other children, even general information.

5 hours ago, Lecka said:

 

I would ask if they were trained in CPS (or crisis prevention or whatever it is called).  If they are not, I would ask why not.  
 

I would ask how they handle behavior issues.  
 

I would ask how they inform parents.  Consider stating in writing you want to be informed.

It is run by therapists and folks trained in trauma.   Most of their kids are either foster or former foster so they are very aware of the needs.

5 hours ago, Lecka said:

 

I would ask if they have a policy on restraint and seclusion.  Consider stating in writing you are opposed.  
 

Ask if they are doing the same academic level as in the regular classroom.  

 

 

I would ask if they have recess and lunch on their own or with the rest of the school.  I would ask if they go to music and PE.  I would ask if they will attend field trips with their grade level.  I would ask how they will appear in the yearbook (are they their own class with their own teacher in the yearbook, or are they technically assigned to another classroom).  
 

I would ask if this is the home school for all the kids.  I would ask what the next level is for kids who need a higher level of support (more for information in general than because it might come up for you — it’s an informative thing to ask I think).  
 

I’ll see if I think of more.  
 

I don’t know what his IEP looks like but I would ask questions about how they will follow his IEP.  

 

 

I was told to expect the academics to be a little behind.  However, he is kindergarten and I have no problem after schooling him.

They have already talked to me about his 504 and how they would deal with it.

 

What do you mean by ask if this is the home school for all the kids?   This is a specialized program and kids come from all over the district.   It is housed at a school but not really part of that school if that makes sense.   

[DawnM]

5 hours ago, Lecka said:

I would also ask for more details about their social-emotional program.  Is the stuff for 5-year-olds specifically for 5-year-olds.  I would ask if I could see samples.  I would ask what training was done by whoever will do this — did they go to a training, was it their major in college?  I would ask if they have specific goals and how they will monitor progress (will it be by observation?).

I would ask if with such a small ratio, they have a plan to transition kids back to the regular classroom size.  
 

I would ask if they are concerned about kids getting too dependent on the teacher with such a small ratio.  

It is all on their website.   They work with kids ages 3-18.    I am actually somewhat familiar with the actual organization as I have referred kids in the past to their residential program, I am just not familiar with their day treatment program as much, nor am I as familiar with the younger kids' program.

As far as transitioning back, A will be placed in an inclusion class when he returns to reg. school so he will still have a somewhat smaller class size.

5 hours ago, Lecka said:

Will he have a traditional morning time or circle time?  
 

I would ask if there will be a “least restrictive placement” determination — is it considered that kind of thing or not.  

What do you mean by a least restrictive placement determination?   They have one program and one way to do it, it is a restrictive environment.   

5 hours ago, Lecka said:

I would say “so, I’ve heard with programs like this, the hope is it’s one year or less than one year…. What are you looking for to show kids are ready to go back…. How do they transition back…. Do kids stay another year or so they move to another program, if they aren’t showing readiness.”

I will ask.   What they told me on the phone is that kids can stay for "up to a year."   I dont' know if they can return after failing at school again or not, but the hope is that they won't need that.

4 hours ago, Lecka said:

I would ask how much they are on screens, and if they use screens as rewards.  

Would screens as rewards be an issue?   

4 hours ago, Lecka said:

I would ask how often the lead teacher is out doing meetings, and who is there when the lead teacher is out.  
 

What happens when there is a sub?

I will ask

3 hours ago, Drama Llama said:

I would ask what the ratio is now, and what the plan is for ratios when there are 12 kids.  There is no way that 12 to 2 is an appropriate ratio for kids who need the most restrictive environment.  

I think that the most likely places for aggression to happen between kids are lunch and recess.  Splitting for instruction is great, and necessary, but I would ask about ratios at that time. 

I agree with @Lecka that having a clear sense of policies on restraint and seclusion is critical.  I would not allow my five year old to be in a program that uses seclusion, even with an agreement that they wouldn't use it on him.

I would ask for their track record on moving kids back to gen ed.  I taught Kindergarten in a highly restrictive special education program that told every parent that their goal was to return kids to gen ed in a couple years, but the majority of my kindergarteners were still there at high school graduation.  

I think there are more than 2 in there, but I will ask.  He seemed to imply it was 1:3 or 1:4, so it may be that as they grow, they get more supports in place?   Not sure though.

I highly doubt they do any seclusion because it is actually against the law here, and there is no space in the school, but I will ask.

3 hours ago, Lecka said:

My daughter’s friend was in one where a lot of kids really did stay less than one year, but they would have to think they were ready with enough time to start spending gradually increasing time with a regular class.  
 

My daughter’s friend would get in trouble during this process and then they would reduce the time or stop it.  
 

So she never transitioned out of it while she was in elementary school.  
 

But I think it was a good program for her, she didn’t spend all her time in trouble.  

 

There is no time for going to a "regular class" because none of them are in their home assigned school and dont' have a reg. class to go to.   They do this and then go back to their schools.   The max they can stay is one year, however, I don't know if they can return again or not.

 

And thank you for all the input!   

Edited October 27, 2023 by DawnM

[DawnM]

Thank you @Lecka for all the help.