Need help from gymnastics, acro, tumbling moms - octagon mat

[Ting Tang]

My daughter's ballet teacher told us of all the mats to buy, get an octagon mat so that she can assist my daughter with learning front walkovers.  My daughter has taken privates, classes, and clinics for over a year to learn this skill.  She has made progress but still struggles with the right landing.  I believe she is closer to having this skill.  I do not have any additional time (as you know) for any more extracurricular classes, so I love the idea of incorporating it into my daughter's private dance lesson.  Her teacher has a small studio, which is why she doesn't have matting, but she is knowledgeable on acro skills.

A few gymnastics people on a forum said DON"T get an octagon.  Nobody uses them to train front walkovers.  But sellers say they are a training aid.  Of course, I do trust our dance teacher.  Originally, I thought a wedge mat that folds into a cube and regular mat might be good for at home drills.  A Facebook forum won't even let me post the question.

Do any of you own an octagon mat?  What about an air barrel?  It does seem feet and hands would be too far apart.  Everything is expensive, and I hate wasting money.  

[Dmmetler]

The gym L was at used octagons, air barrels, and various other trainers a lot for handsprings, but not for walkovers, but I could see it if she's struggling with arching enough to land-she'd be using it to come out of the walkover, not into it. Wedge mats were used a lot for walkovers and handsprings to get a bir of gravity assistance, and folded regular mats were used for training aerials. 

 

I never got home mats because with a homeschooled kid and a gym close to home, we could just go to the gym almost daily, but If I were to do so, I'd probably look at the air filled versions because they can be deflated when not in use. I think they're a bit cheaper, too. The octagons they have at the gym would need to be used as an end table or something in my house! 

 

 

[Ting Tang]

28 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

The gym L was at used octagons, air barrels, and various other trainers a lot for handsprings, but not for walkovers, but I could see it if she's struggling with arching enough to land-she'd be using it to come out of the walkover, not into it. Wedge mats were used a lot for walkovers and handsprings to get a bir of gravity assistance, and folded regular mats were used for training aerials. 

 

I never got home mats because with a homeschooled kid and a gym close to home, we could just go to the gym almost daily, but If I were to do so, I'd probably look at the air filled versions because they can be deflated when not in use. I think they're a bit cheaper, too. The octagons they have at the gym would need to be used as an end table or something in my house! 

 

 

Thank you so much!  I do not want to undermine the dance teacher, but on the gymnastics forum, they are questioning her ability to work with my daughter.  This woman has danced all over the world, inclusive of acro/tumbling in her performances.  The air barrel knock offs are a lot cheaper on Amazon than the Octagons.  She said she still preferred we got the octagon over the barrel, maybe for stability?  I honestly feel like we need a wedge, foldable mat, and the octagon.  But my daughter isn't a gymnast.  lol  And that would be quite pricey!  I haven't found much used...  

[AmandaVT]

If she's struggling with the walkover, bridges and shoulder flexibility are going to be the key. She can learn bad technique with an octagon. Walkovers require a higher level of flexibility. (former competitive gymnastics coach)

[Ting Tang]

12 hours ago, AmandaVT said:

If she's struggling with the walkover, bridges and shoulder flexibility are going to be the key. She can learn bad technique with an octagon. Walkovers require a higher level of flexibility. (former competitive gymnastics coach)

Thank you! So if a dance teacher is requesting one, would you be concerned? Same with those air barrels? She can do back bends and is pretty flexible. I don’t want to undermine her—but I could spend the money on the other mats instead. I almost wonder if it’s strength and body awareness causing the delay in her learning this. 

[AmandaVT]

Can you describe what she's doing in the front walkover? Where does the struggle happen? Out of curiosity, how is her back walkover?

[Ting Tang]

@AmandaVT I haven't seen her back walkover in a very long time.  Here is a video of her best attempt in our yard.  *I may later delete the video*  Thank you for your observations and thoughts! (if anyone has been curious about her sport, the evidence is in the grass...lol)

Edited October 25, 2023 by Ting Tang

[AmandaVT]

Oh perfect - thank you! OK, her leading foot is landing too far from her hands. She can't shift her weight properly when it's that far away which is why (I think) she can't get up without the second adjustment. Notice how she needs to hop her feet closer to her hands before she can stand up? If she didn't do that, she'd fall on her back instead because it's really really hard to stand up with her lead foot that far away. I'm trying attach a video that shows what I'm talking about. At 1:03, you can see how close her foot lands to her hands. That's what allows her to transfer her weight from her hands to her lead foot and then stand up. She could try it with an octagon, but I think she needs to keep stretching her shoulders and probably more hip flexor flexibility as well. How are her stretches for splits? 

 

 

[Ting Tang]

3 minutes ago, AmandaVT said:

Oh perfect - thank you! OK, her leading foot is landing too far from her hands. She can't shift her weight properly when it's that far away which is why (I think) she can't get up without the second adjustment. Notice how she needs to hop her feet closer to her hands before she can stand up? If she didn't do that, she'd fall on her back instead because it's really really hard to stand up with her lead foot that far away. I'm trying attach a video that shows what I'm talking about. At 1:03, you can see how close her foot lands to her hands. That's what allows her to transfer her weight from her hands to her lead foot and then stand up. She could try it with an octagon, but I think she needs to keep stretching her shoulders and probably more hip flexor flexibility as well. How are her stretches for splits? 

 

 

Thank you so much!  Yes, that is the trouble she seems to be having.  She is pretty flexible and can get both of her splits flat on both sides.  She has started slowly working on oversplits.  She has a great split leap, does needles, illusions, etc.  I wondered if this could be solved by working with an octagon or roller.  But if it is a flexibility issue or a strength issue, she could work on that.  She does about 20 or 25 minutes of stretching each day before she works on various leg holds, back bends, etc.  

[AmandaVT]

Weird question - which way do her hips face when she's in the splits? Is she able to do them without her hips turning a bit? If she's in a right split, for example, are her hips twisting a bit to the left? This video isn't gymnastics specific, but I scrolled through it and it looks like she's demonstrating what I'm trying to explain. Her first splits have slightly open hips and then she demonstrates how she squares up. 

https://fitandbendy.com/what-is-a-square-split-and-why-should-i-care-how-your-position-in-front-splits-can-affect-your-back-flexibility/

[Ting Tang]

2 hours ago, AmandaVT said:

Weird question - which way do her hips face when she's in the splits? Is she able to do them without her hips turning a bit? If she's in a right split, for example, are her hips twisting a bit to the left? This video isn't gymnastics specific, but I scrolled through it and it looks like she's demonstrating what I'm trying to explain. Her first splits have slightly open hips and then she demonstrates how she squares up. 

https://fitandbendy.com/what-is-a-square-split-and-why-should-i-care-how-your-position-in-front-splits-can-affect-your-back-flexibility/

I will observe— but I can tell you she is naturally turned in and her ballet teacher has been working with her to become more square. But I will click this link because that’s interesting about it affecting back flexibility. She has lay backs and back bends in her metal stick routines (I just do not want people finding this lol.) Thank you so much for your help! 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Ting Tang