Latin for foreign language requirements

[HMM]

 

Hi my 9th grader finished second form Latin (memoria press) for her freshman year, on her transcript I had this set for 1 credit for her foreign language requirements.  I was going to have her do third form Latin her sophomore year, and fourth form/henle 1 junior year and maybe henle 2 senior year…. This would then be 4 credits for her foreign language correct.  I just wanted to make sure that each years worth of curriculum would satisfy the credit and take care of her foreign language needs.  I know she will end up with more foreign language credits than she needs but I am hoping if we get through henle 2 she will have the strong base to move to another language in college. Thank you for your help!

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[cintinative]

second form is listed as a fifth/sixth grade product on the MP website.  I would really hesitate to give a full high school credit for a middle school course.  

[Bonnie]

7 hours ago, cintinative said:

second form is listed as a fifth/sixth grade product on the MP website.  I would really hesitate to give a full high school credit for a middle school course.  

I agree with this, and I would seriously consider switching her to the second half of Henle I for 10th grade. Then she could do Henle II for 11th grade and another upper-level course senior year, more appropriate for high school study. However, this would involve some effort to make a smooth transition from Second Form to Henle I, and you may want to just leave her in the Forms. I think the most total credit you can claim for all four Forms would be two high school credits. And yes, Henle II would definitely be a high school credit.

Edited June 13, 2022 by Bonnie

[TheAttachedMama]

I will be the voice of decent. 😉  I think it is fine to give 4 Foreign Language credits for that Latin sequence.   In fact, I've seen people give Foreign Language credits for a lot less!

I wanted to point out that if a student takes Second Form Latin at Memoria Press's Online Academy in 9th Grade, it counts for 1 high school credit.  (See this page:  https://www.memoriapressacademy.com/second-form-latin/).    In fact, even if they take First Form Latin in 9th grade from Memoria Press Academy, they can count it as a Foreign Language credit.  (NOTE:  This just works if it is taken in 9th grade.  I would not suggest pulling up early credits for 1st-3rd form taken in middle school.)     Colleges seem just fine accepting this Foreign Language credit.  (Again, you should SEE some of the stuff I see homeschoolers try to count as a Foreign Language credit! ).  

I also want to point out that if you are following the lesson plans at home, you are probably doing more at home than is required by Memoria Press's online academy.  We've done both options, and we always do more Latin when I am teaching as opposed to the online instructors.   When I went through the Form series, we spent at least an hour per day for 36 weeks doing our Latin studies---which is plenty of hours to count as a credit if you are taking the class in your 9th grade year.   

Another reason I personally say that you can claim this as a high school credit is that my son took First-Third Form Latin in middle school and then I moved him to CLRC High School Latin, which uses the Oxford Latin books.  It is hard to switch textbooks with a foreign language since what is covered at each level is not standardized.   I had to make a guess, so  I started him in CLRC Latin II and most of the year was review.   He covered very few new things.   He also is an NLE Gold Medal winner for the various levels after just covering the form series (plus the MP NLE prep books), which I think helps back up the fact that you can count these for high school credit too!   (Just a note:  I highly recommend that you study for and take the NLE tests.  It will help back up your credits and grades. )

 

[frankincense]

nm

Edited April 11, 2023 by frankincense

[cintinative]

I stand corrected. I do think it is odd that they list it as a 5th/6th grade course and then use it in the online academy for high school.

[Bonnie]

I see the arguments on both sides of this issue. Yes, if you are in the middle of the Forms, you may as well complete them and then move to Henle II. I have no doubt that most colleges would give credit for the Forms in high school. I agree that, across the board, with all the different Latin programs, the work actually done to claim high school credits must vary widely from student to student. A student who has done four Forms may claim four credits, and a student who has done Henle I (usually done over two years), Henle II, and either Henle III (Cicero) or AP Latin, can likewise claim four credits. And yet the latter student will have had the opportunity to progress much farther in understanding Latin and in developing the ability to read authentic Latin literature.

 

A student who has completed either the four Forms or Henle I has learned basic Latin grammar and is ready to go on to Henle II, where they will learn intermediate and advanced syntax and begin to read Caesar. I would encourage you to keep Henle II in your long-range plans. That is the year that the student pulls all the grammar and syntax together and reads extended passages of classical Latin. I think your student will really enjoy it.

 

23 hours ago, TheAttachedMama said:

I also want to point out that if you are following the lesson plans at home, you are probably doing more at home than is required by Memoria Press's online academy.  We've done both options, and we always do more Latin when I am teaching as opposed to the online instructors. 

Excellent point just above.

[TheAttachedMama]

19 hours ago, cintinative said:

I stand corrected. I do think it is odd that they list it as a 5th/6th grade course and then use it in the online academy for high school.

I didn't mean to correct.  I just wanted to share my opinion.    🙂

I am not an expert.  I am learning this all right along with you.  But there are several ways to calculate a high school level credit.

The reason we are going back and forth on this is that a Foreign Language credit isn't standardized.  It isn't like an "Algebra I" credit for example.  It is more similar to granting a Fine Arts credit for a year of learning to play the piano.   Let's say you want to grant your High Schooler a fine arts credit because they spent 180 hours over the school year practicing and learning the piano.   Someone might argue, "Yeah, but they only were able to play a simple version of Für Elise by the end of the year, and my third grader is playing that same song." or "My fifth grader has been playing for 180 hours also and they are so much more advanced than your high schooler."    (Hopefully, no one would actually say these things, but you get my point.)   Obviously, their third grader started learning to play earlier.  And obviously, some people can make quick progress with learning an instrument or a foreign language.   You don't earn the Fine Arts credit based on natural talent or ability.    PLUS, and perhaps more importantly, different High School students have different goals...and colleges know and understand this.   A future classics major would probably want to study more Latin than just the Form Series in High school.  Whereas a STEM-focused student would probably be just fine going through the Form Series in high school.   

In fact, at Highland's Latin School (the private school that uses Memoria Press's curriculum), Grades 3-6 are learning Latin Grammar (the Form series), then they go through the Henle series in Junior High, and finally, they spend all of High School (grades 9-12) reading/translating actual classical texts in Latin (Caesar, Virgil, etc.).     So you can't go on grade level recommendation alone... especially when you are talking about an advanced/rigorous school like Highland's Latin.  If you went by that logic, one might argue that you shouldn't grant a Foreign Language credit for high school Latin unless they are translating Virgil---and that even the Henle series shouldn't count since its recommended age is 7th grade.  We know that isn't the case since many people use Henle in High School and count it for credit with no problem.   Plus, students need to start somewhere with Latin.  Some start earlier and some start later.  Both paths are OK.   If a student hadn't been through the Form series earlier, it would be close to impossible for them to start reading classic books in actual Latin in grade 9.   

All this to say:  I think that as long as her student is spending at least 180 hours per year devoted to their Latin studies, they can count it as a Foreign Language.  

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By the way, this question has been asked so many times at Memoria Press Online Academy that they have a whole FAQ devoted to it.  https://www.memoriapressacademy.com/frequently-asked-questions/

Edited June 15, 2022 by TheAttachedMama