Writing for reluctant writers

[mmasc]

What do you all like for your dc who don’t care for writing? 
 

My ds will be just-turned-13 at the beginning of our school year in August. We limped our way through IEW’s All Things Fun & Fascinating this past year. He really didn’t care for it, but I feel like the organization focus and outlining was good for him. We’ve worked extensively on topic sentences and supporting details sentences in paragraph writing also. 
 

What now??? I’ve looked at IEW’s program for 6-8 with the lessons taught by Mr. Pudewa, but I feel like ds would balk at it. I just don’t know what to get or where to go from here. Help please!

[PeterPan]

Is there anything he's into that you can use for source material?

Does typing help? 

Is there any writing that *does* work for him? How is his narrative language? https://mindwingconcepts.com/pages/methodology

My ds is pretty off the trail, so getting through an IEW program seems pretty stellar comparatively. That's why I'm thinking you might want to extend what he's learned to topics he'll find interesting. My dd when she was that age said she didn't like writing. She later had a spurt btw. We were doing a lot of metronome work where I would have her cross the midline while doing Heathermomster's activities and then bring in distractions, do digit spans, etc. I figured the challenge of writing (aside from having something to say, lol) is that it's so many components: put your thoughts into words, hold them, motor plan to write/type, deal with distractions. It's a lot! So I was trying to make all those things happen at once with the metronome work, and it did help. 

So think about where the glitch is. Is it the topic, the motor planning to write/type, the working memory, the EF, some narrative language issues (that his content just doesn't flow out, even if he just talks it), something else? 

I used the journaling prompts from the Jump In ™ with my dd around that age, and they were good. I think just some consistent crank out your thoughts writing can be good, because it makes some of those pieces easier. So journaling prompts, response journals, narrations, having him research a topic each week and write up a short thing about what he learns, anything. Creative is good too. My dd worked through the poetry series that PHP sells. Don't get too in the box and stuffy about this. Just writing with engagement may get him over some humps. 

Have you thought about doing something with tech? Pechakucha, powerpoints, something shorter...

[mmasc]

I did actually look into Jump In and Wordsmith (not apprentice but the other one) just today. I was looking into it to see if something ‘fun’ or ‘creative’ might be a nice break for him. He likes to know what’s coming up and what to expect, so I thought IEW would work well for that. It’s hard to know the source of the writing issue, bc he doesn’t really like any subjects! He didn’t *hate* it, but sure didn’t care for it either.  I don’t think he liked or ‘got’ why he’d re-write something that was already written. Like he wasn’t real into re-writing the story but adding his own -ly word and adjective lol. He seemed to like the unit at the end where he wrote from pictures. I guess I always figured he really needed to get the outlining/writing good sentences/paragraphs down and he could work on creative on his own if he wanted. Idk. Maybe we need both. Or a break from IEW. I guess I need to research some more stuff maybe. 
 

ETA: Re what writing he has liked. The only thing he has really enjoyed was this a few years ago. Then we did the Super Paragraph book. Next, we spent a year doing outlines from short reading comprehension non-fiction passages. Then it basically took us two years to get through All Things Fun and Fascinating. 

Edited May 22, 2021 by mmasc

[PeterPan]

Does he enjoy arguing? You can do these orally and then use them as prompts for essays. 

http://webspace.ship.edu/hliu/347/12current/50topics.pdf

10 hours ago, mmasc said:

He seemed to like the unit at the end where he wrote from pictures.

That's interesting. Did it do good things for him? Can he explain why he liked it? 

10 hours ago, mmasc said:

I guess I always figured he really needed to get the outlining/writing good sentences/paragraphs down

https://mindwingconcepts.com/pages/methodology  Here's a link on how narrative language develops and the link between narrative and expository writing. When WTM says to focus on narrations and outlining, they're right. And when your gut says he needs to build basic paragraphs (expository narratives) and outlining, you're right. But we have flexibility in how we get there. This link has charts so you can see the components and how they overlap. It doesn't matter whether he's writing fiction or nonfiction, personal narratives or technical tidbits about gaming, because the narrative language steps of development are still there.

That's why I asked what he likes. That's really interesting that he enjoyed writing from the picture prompts. I'd encourage you to ask why it seemed to work for him. Sometimes people who find writing hard actually have a lot to say. And maybe he doesn't, lol. But people are funny that way. Was it that the picture reminded him of the words he might use? Does he have trouble forming his own picture in his mind (visualization) and so seeing the picture made it easier? How could you use that to get to the next place?

If he's having trouble with visualization, you'd really like to know. Have you ever wondered if he has ADHD? Sometimes these kind of nothing works for me kids have ADHD and that's what is going on. You're saying he thrives on structure and clear expectations, which is super buzzword with ADHD. With my dd what it meant functionally was that I tried to have very consistent expectations. So the subject might change or the length or whatever, but it was like every week you're going to do 1 of these and 2 of these and 3 of these, kwim? 

With her WWS was really good but needed a LOT OF SUPPORT. Like I literally went through the student book and highlighted the important things, wrote notes, and put in enough that she could do it independently and not lose the point in the sea of text. You might consider WWS. Given that he likes pictures prompts and structure, I think he could surprise you. The main thing it lacks is CONTEXT or AUDIENCE. My dd would just sit there completely flummoxed why she was writing. Writing always has an audience, so you may need to make that up. 

Short, frequent assignments help him build comfort and VOICE. Does his writing sound like him? For those short assignments, I tended to bring in things like the Jump In writing prompts (not the whole curriculum, just the journaling prompts from the tm, there are enough to give you one a day the whole school year, just copy and pop in page protectors), research requirements (subscribe to good news emails and then research one topic farther each week and write up what you learned, response journals (read an essay from the Best Essays collection and respond to it in your journal, read another chapter from your philosophy book and write a response in your journal, etc.). None of this was stuff I was being picky about or editing or whatever. It was all about comfort cranking out her thoughts and having voice. Comfort and voice. So don't edit, don't criticize. Just praise and discuss. 

10 hours ago, mmasc said:

 I don’t think he liked or ‘got’ why he’d re-write something that was already written. Like he wasn’t real into re-writing the story but adding his own -ly word and adjective lol.

https://www.amazon.com/Writing-100-Days-Student-Centered-Composition/dp/0964904209  You might consider doing something like this TOGETHER. So you both write, then you trade papers and give feedback to the other person. I agree, there's this gap in telling kids to enjoy writing and then tearing it up. I knew someone trained as a writer who slammed that whole thought process up and down, saying it shouldn't be done at all. And some people draft in their heads so that when they get it down it's almost complete anyway. My dd had that ability to do startlingly clean drafts, and I tend to also. Then there are people who make horse manure drafts, haha. But we don't have to assume everyone writes the same way just because the curriculum says so. 

I think if he's having trouble using parts of speech in his writing, I would look for games to practice that. https://www.proedinc.com/Products/31025/50-quickplay-grammar-games.aspx  This is just to inspire you. Writing Tales 2 does an amazing job of using the principles that you liked from IEW but bringing in games and creativity. I don't know if you'd like it or not. It was great with my dd. It would be for an earlier stage than WWS. So if WT2 looks too simple, look at The 100 Days workbook and then WWS. 

10 hours ago, mmasc said:

he really needed to get the outlining/writing good sentences/paragraphs down

You're wise to continue having him outline. Does he have anything he enjoys that could be fodder for outlining? It will let him see how writers develop and argument. So for instance he might like to outline articles from Muse magazine. Your library will have it. That publisher has all kinds of magazines, so you're bound to find something. Or go to magazines in his areas of interest. (hunting, Makey Makey, whatever)

10 hours ago, mmasc said:

he could work on creative on his own if he wanted.

What writing will be useful or suit him long term? For instance, at a total extreme, I would say essay writing is completely superfluous for my ds but that some technical writing, the ability to explain the steps of a task or the components, is extremely useful. I'd like my ds to be able to write a repair slip for appliance repair or tell an employer the steps of what he did. 

So you might think hard about your ds and where this is going, what is really useful to him and then what steps will get him there.

Is he also a reluctant reader? Have you considered poetry? http://www.cdfieldtrips.com/05PPshow/index.html  This website does NOT deliver the books if you order, sigh. (paypal had to refund my order) However the materials are excellent and you can see every page in their very lovely poetry workbook. You might find it just the ticket. And if you make screenshots of each page you can then print and use them. If you decide to do WWS (which I'm not saying he is/is not ready for, I'm in the later is better camp with WWS), you could alternate weeks with this. 

https://www.evan-moor.com/daily-6-trait-writing-grade-6-teacher's-edition-print  I was just noticing your ds is the age of mine. What grade will you consider him in the fall? My ds will be 7th by age but he functions several years behind (ASD2). We've gotten immense mileage from this Evan Moor 6 trait workbook series. Given that the Scholastic workbooks worked for you, I think going through those publishers (scholastic, Evan Moor, etc.) is going to give you some gems. You can do that online or you can go into an education store if you're near enough one. I was just in a huge one and found all kinds of stuff for math for junior high/high school, which I had not expected. 

The 6 trait workbook I linked has very clear structure and you can see most of the book as a sample on their site. I linked the 6th and I suggest backing up as needed to make it comfortable. Just go with your gut. I like how clearly they lead the students into the thought process. As long as they have the language ability to do the writing (my ds' struggling point), they'll be fine. My ds' intervention specialist at the ps liked it so much when I showed her that she ordered them to use with her own kids. 

Scholastic, Teacher Created Materials, Evan Moor, Carson Dellosa, Teacher Created Resources, these are all some of my favorite spots to look for stuff. Given that he's done well with the structure of workbooks in the past, I'm thinking you want to try that route again. One of them (Scholastic?) had writing from historical pictures. You'll also start to find DBQ (data based questions) where they give a picture or graph and want you to answer essay prompts. It might fit with his liking the structure of the picture prompt in IEW. 

So keep looking, yes. It doesn't matter what he writes, so much as that he's getting comfort and finding his voice. 

[mmasc]

As always, loads of information for me to peruse and ponder. Thank you @PeterPan! I’ll come back when I have time to look at this stuff and answer questions. I guess I need to ask him more questions to gauge why he liked the picture writing. Oh, and we are considering him to be going into 7th. 

[mmasc]

Ok, I’m still reading through your plethora of resources and ideas, but I did want to pop back in bc I had a couple of answers to your questions finally lol. What does he like or find interesting? Well, that question made me remember that the absolute best paper he has ever cranked out was when I told him he could write about a video game he liked. He went into very good detail about it, and wanted to willingly type it up to look nice. It was also his longest paper ever. Sure, there was some editing involved, but he seemed willing to do it bc when I said something like ‘this sentence is written like I (or the reader) *knows* about this game. But since I don’t, I don’t understand.” He quickly ‘got’ what I meant and would re-write no problem. In contrast, when he’s re-writing IEW and I’m like “This sentence doesn’t make sense.” Or “This needs more detail, or better verbs...” or whatever, he’s just like typical tween eye roll, ugh, whatever. Lol. So I think this kid really, really needs to see the point or at least be interested in what he’s doing to care, but that’s not always easy with writing!
 

I still need to ask him about the picture prompts in IEW and why they worked. (We’re in the process of moving/summer mode so school talk is not my kids’ favorite conversation subject lol)

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, mmasc said:

He went into very good detail about it, and wanted to willingly type it up to look nice.

He had all the language preloaded in his brain.

1 hour ago, mmasc said:

I still need to ask him about the picture prompts in IEW and why they worked.

Keyword outlines preload the language.