intro to noir for sensitive children (background for our roleplaying game night)

[serendipitous journey]

Okay, so I'm betting this is a slim hope, but y'all ARE miracle-workers ...

Our role-playing group is running a noir-based mystery/system (City of Mist) and my boys have no cultural clue.  They are 14 and 9.  The 9 year old has basically dropped out of the game; he is pretty sophisticated in RPG when we are doing D&D or similar fantasy systems, but this modern urban noir makes no sense to him.  The older one is often mystified and is probably going to either quit soon or just disengage (ie, observe). 

This is our only non-family social outlet.  I'm working other angles, including beginning to prep a game that I could run for our group that the boys could be more active in, but would love any ideas for getting them familiar with the "noir" genre.  Everything I can find is inappropriately disturbing (surprise!). 

TIA. 

ps -- it is a Zoom game now, of course -- we moved online. 

ETA: elder child suggested Chicago 20's style gangster stories might work.  But he doesn't seem to know of any.  Apparently he doesn't like noir.  Or gangster stuff.  But he does like the superhero element of the RPG and the modern tech.  Anyhow: help appreciated.

Edited May 16, 2020 by serendipitous journey

[Lori D.]

Well, I would say that since they're not showing a lot of interest, I'd just wait on the game, and on noir. 

Noir comes out of the 1930s/1940s, and is built on amoral characters, "shady doings", and sometimes a moral ambiguity -- older/original noir films and books portray a world with strong sense of right/wrong, but characters are choosing wrong, and ultimately suffer consequences for it. More modern noir is more ambiguous morally. Since children usually have a very strong sense of right and wrong, and are used to main characters being morally good heroes, noir can cast that in a "shady light" (lol) for kids, which can be very distressing -- asking them, in some ways, to root for the guy who is clearly doing bad things and hurting innocent (or at least, "less bad") people.

Characters also engage in activities that children have been told are not good -- lots of drinking, smoking, and gambling, for example. Also noir plots in films and books tend to be very complex and not action-driven, and younger kids tend to need straight-forward plot without a lot of long, boring (to them) dialogue/angst/complications. And noir stories can end with the death of the main character -- which is NOT something kids are used to or expect -- so another element that can be very distressing.

In film, noir also has a strong visual style -- extreme light/shadow or pools of light and dark or diagonals of light/dark; rain and neon signs for atmosphere; cigarette smoke and shot glasses; and much of the story takes place at night, in the dark -- visually representing the dark morals/dark choices. Often costuming reflects a 1940s look -- suits and fedoras for men, pencil skirts with slits and matching jackets for women; trench coats for everyone.
 

Ideas for introducing tweens to traditional (1930s/1940s) noir...

- read this kid-friendly definition

- Calvin & Hobbes -- strips of Calvin as Tracer Bullet,a noir detective -- and a quick article about Tracer Bullet
If you can't enlarge the first link's image, try viewing the comic strips here:
May 16, 1987 strip
Feb 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 1990 strips
Feb. 25, 26, 27, 28, Mar. 1, 2,  1991 

- watch Pixar's short: Red's Dream (1987)
The music, lighting, and atmosphere, especially in the open/close of this 4-min. short are the mood and look of film noir. And the depressed mood of the main character is very much like characters in noir stories. (Which is another reason why your DC may not be clicking with noir -- it is not upbeat or redeeming.)

- maybe watch Detective Pikachu (2019)
from this article, it sounds like it's noir-influenced, and might be a way to show "beginner noir" to a kid... (no personal experience)

- or maybe watch Diamond's Edge (1988)
British action/crime film for tweens purposefully designed as a film noir that closely mimics The Maltese Falcon, with humor -- see this very short review (no personal experience)

- 1930s/1940s films "lite noir" (lol) -- like:
* The Thin Man movies -- private detective & wife, Nick & Nora Charles -- barely noir at the edges visually, dectective/mystery movies with humor & quipping (+ a TON of smoking and drinking, gah!)
* The Lady Vanishes (1938) -- only sort of noir (mostly in some of the film style) -- Hitchcock, with suspense + sparking/humorous dialogue between the lead male & female; esp. towards the end, parts of this will feel slow or too long


While these are great, and *possibly* might work for the 14yo, they are not for a 9yo:
* 1940s complex films: The Maltese Falcon; Double Indemnity -- although, honestly, these may just be boring or too opaque for even a 14yo
* 1930s hard-edge gangster noir: Little Caesar, or possibly Public Enemy; I would AVOID the 1930s Scarface -- it is surprisingly HARSH, as are a lot of the 1940s-1950s gangster films 

I will say that when I did an Intro to Film Analysis class a few years back with our homeschool high school co-op students, and included a lot of older films (1930s-1940s) -- including noir -- some of the teens had trouble tracking with these films: too many cultural references they didn't understand; the film editing pace is much slower than they are used to; and the historical times just threw them entirely.

Again, just me, but I would probably back-burner this game until the kids are older, and for now, focus on games that are a good fit for them right now. But that's just me. 😉 BEST of luck! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited May 16, 2020 by Lori D.

[serendipitous journey]

On 5/15/2020 at 8:25 PM, Lori D. said:

Well, I would say that since they're not showing a lot of interest, I'd just wait on the game, and on noir.

....
Again, just me, but I would probably back-burner this game until the kids are older, and for now, focus on games that are a good fit for them right now. But that's just me. 😉 BEST of luck! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Lori, when I first skimmed your answer I was thinking you didn't understand the problem.  When I re-read it carefully, I realized you understood the problem better than I had!  and felt rather chagrined. 

You were entirely right that this isn't a good game for them right now, even though the social element is so dear to me.  Upon reflection, I wrote the game master about my concerns.  Then he wrote the whole group, and it turned out we were not the only ones not enjoying it.  So now we'll be doing something high fantasy, and I may run a game in a couple of weeks (since the fellow who had planned out the noir game could use a break!). 

You helped a lot of people! 

And I'm going through the linked references you gave, finding ones that the boys enjoy.  Like Calvin & Hobbes -- always a hit here! 

Anyhow: thanks so, so much.  + e-hug!

Edited May 18, 2020 by serendipitous journey

[Lori D.]

5 hours ago, serendipitous journey said:

Lori, when I first skimmed your answer I was thinking you didn't understand the problem.  When I re-read it carefully, I realized you understood the problem better than I had!  and felt rather chagrined. 

You were entirely right that this isn't a good game for them right now, even though the social element is so dear to me.  Upon reflection, I wrote the game master about my concerns.  Then he wrote the whole group, and it turned out we were not the only ones not enjoying it.  So now we'll be doing something high fantasy, and I may run a game in a couple of weeks (since the fellow who had planned out the noir game could use a break!). 

You helped a lot of people! 

And I'm going through the linked references you gave, finding ones that the boys enjoy.  Like Calvin & Hobbes -- always a hit here! 

Anyhow: thanks so, so much.  + e-hug!

Woo-hoo! SO happy to have helped -- your group, in addition to your family! Hope you all enjoy the high fantasy role-playing. 😄 Enjoy the links.