OnceUponAFullMoon Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 After doing some research to target comprehension/inference/main idea/working memory/auditory processing/social skills, I narrowed down to the following products: *Linguisystems Spotlight on Listening Comprehension: Details, Main Idea, Inference, Consequence, Reasoning *Linguisystem Spotlight on Social Skills Primary: Conversation, Emotion, Making Friends, Nonverbal, Social Inference, Consequences *Linguisystems HELP: Memory, Auditory Processing *Linguisystems Hyperlexia level 2 *100% Listening *No Glamour Problem Solving *Tasks of Problem Solving *Spotlight on problem solving Did you have experiences with any of those books? Which of them were the most helpful and necessary? Is there an order which book to use first? I read the samples and they look like they could help my hyperlexia/gifted/adhd kid, but they are too expensive to buy all to test out. They also seem to have some overlapping among each other. I am also lost in what Super Duper decks to get. Some of the decks are similar to the Spotlight series and has similar pricing per deck/book. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer-72 Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 I have used a good majority of the items on your list. For problem solving both the no glamour and TOPS are great books and you certainly don’t need both. I would suggest though, you may want to take a look at the no glamour problem solving cards instead. I liked those and think the cards are more engaging and bring about a more natural conversation about the situation which works on so many other language goals. I have to go now but will try to write out some more comments later this afternoon. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 What's the age of the child? And what have you done so far on the hyperlexia? Super Duper is a mixed bag. As you're realizing, it's better to start small. Linguisystems doesn't price break for shipping, so there's no advantage to placing a large order over a small. Price it out, but that's how it usually works for me. Are you buying ebooks or print version? I bought ebooks, so again it was easy to buy just a bit at a time. Are they having a sale and I don't realize it? A few times a year Super Duper runs a 20-30% off sale. I've seldom seen a sale from Linguisystems. My ds was hyperlexic also, but his was more the secondary, where I taught him to read (he's dyslexic) and then there was zero comprehension, sigh. We ended up going through everything I could find from Linguisystems for vocabulary, concepts, you name it. I like your enthusiasm, btw. :) I agree on starting with one choice for problem solving. I haven't used the cards but keep eyeing them. I think they're a fabulous suggestion. 1 hour ago, OnceUponAFullMoon said: *Linguisystems Spotlight on Listening Comprehension: Details, Main Idea, Inference, Consequence, Reasoning *Linguisystem Spotlight on Social Skills Primary: Conversation, Emotion, Making Friends, Nonverbal, Social Inference, Consequences *Linguisystems HELP: Memory, Auditory Processing *Linguisystems Hyperlexia level 2 *100% Listening *No Glamour Problem Solving *Tasks of Problem Solving *Spotlight on problem solving Ok, so looking at my stash, we did spotlight on listening main idea and it was good. The sequencing book was HARD. You can buy these as individual books or ebooks, so there's no rush. Maybe start with 1. Spotlight on Social, we had the emotions book, haven't done the rest yet. I think we stalled out in it. Now that we've done some interoception work, we're ready to go back and work on emotions. HELP. The HELP series is great. I'm looking at samples of the auditory processing and wondering if you've seen this? http://www.e4thai.com/e4e/images/pdf2/100_vocabulary_primary.pdf The hyperlexia kit level 2. The equivalent would be doing Verbalizing/Visualizing (or Talkies) and doing simple workbooks for sequencing stories. It looks like great stuff in the kit, sure. We haven't done 100% Listening, but the other books in the 100% series are good. Listening has been a rougher one for us, and I was pretty focused on the expressive language and reading comprehension. I had him reading every word on every worksheet we were doing to make sure he actually UNDERSTOOD the words. Start small. If you get one set of the problem solving cards, hyperlexia level 2, use the oop pdf I linked, and the HELP Auditory Processing, it could be a good start. Then what you do is *apply* these skills via little games you make up. Jen here shared about Pickles to Penguins, so we used that quite a bit during this kind of work. It's just an endless pile of pictures to use lots of ways. There's a really terrific little book Word Callers: Small-Group and One-to-One Interventions for Children Who "Read" but Don't Comprehend (Research-Informed Classroom) that was useful to us. It comes with cards, which is why you will probably need to buy it new. Or I guess if the library has it, make your own cards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnceUponAFullMoon Posted August 5, 2019 Author Share Posted August 5, 2019 @PeterPan: wow thanks so much for all the links. I'll definitely check them out. My son is turning 7. I cannot find a pediatrician or language therapist who is familiar with hyperlexia where we live. They cannot see his struggles past his giftedness. I was able to get IdeaChain and Visualizing Verbalizing workbooks used online and just started out on that. It seems it may work for him on reading comprehension. I still think I may need Main Idea (and Inference & Consequence eventually when he progresses)? He desperate needs to learn social skills (how to maintain a conversation,) problem solving, and control his emotion. I heard about Superflex and Zone of Regulations, both of which are very expensive, and have no sample pages. We read We Are Social Detective from the same publisher but my son was bored of his mind and refused to finish. So I decided to go with Spotlight on Social Skills for Primary instead. What Super Duper decks did you find most useful? What about their (cheaper) apps? Jennifer-72: if you can write more on your experiences on those books later, it would be great. It is so hard to find these linguisystems book used. They either don't exist or at higher price than getting them new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 There's another series, also called Spotlight, from Carson Dellosa that I really like https://www.carsondellosa.com/104550--cause-effect-resource-book-grade-1-2-paperback-104550/ It's a little tricky to find on their site, but there are a bunch of books and they have them for each grade level cause/effect central message cmpare contrast inferring summarizing They're something like an intervention specialist might use and they were good for us. I also really liked the Spotlight on Vocab series from Linguisystems and their SPARC books. You'll see the Spotlight on Vocab series hits the same topics as that Rothstein workbook I linked you to. So I used Rothstein as the spine and expanded each topic with the Linguisystems workbook, games, etc. Working on language has helped my ds' reading comprehension, his actual comprehension. For him, comprehension improves with a larger sample. So he wasn't understanding a single sentence but might be able to answer multiple choice questions about a multi-paragraph sample. It was crazy. And he had enough prior knowledge to fake out the questions anyway. Drawing a Blank: Improving Comprehension for Readers on the Autism Spectrum This is a book is sold by AAPC, endorsed by big names. Personally I thought it was crap worthless, but there you go. It added nothing to the conversation and said what we already know. She clearly never taught my dc. But it's a book on the topic if you want to try. It's not like anything she was bad. She just doesn't get it yet, hasn't figured it out. That's my tacky, underqualified opinion. (In other words I was annoyed at having spent money on it and have it say nothing more than what I already knew, stuff that was generically obvious.) I already recommended Word Callers to you. This woman is in the trenches, the cost is low, and it's highly implementable. It's not EVERYTHING, but the pieces it has are good and worth doing. She actually brings to the forefront the pivotal idea of multi-processing or processing words, etc. multiple ways. You do these multi-sorts. She has other goodies too, great stuff. It's not a complete SLP thought process on all of language development, but the pieces she brings are solid. HIGHLY recommend. http://www.judyendow.com Judy Endow (on the spectrum herself) has a new hodgepodge book Autistically Thriving coming out that is going to include a literature review by someone else on the topic of hyperlexia. I have no clue if it will be worth anything. https://www.northernspeech.com/autism-treatment/natural-language-acquisition-in-autism-echolalia-to-self-generated-language-level-1/ The free, short videos at this link made the issue of my ds' language click for me. You can see if it resonates for you. I have NO CLUE what causes other people's hyperlexia, as I've only dealt with my ds', kwim? For my ds, this was the issue. He had massive amounts of memorized language and with his super bright brain could bluff, script, use echolalia, and fake his way through. He had learned language whole to parts instead of the more typical parts to whole. He could MEMORIZE but he didn't have way to UNDERSTAND. Even geniuses don't learn their native tongue that way. If you're doing field methods in linguistics, a totally whole to parts method, you'd still want to be able to ask questions, talk to a native, break it into parts and build those parts into the whole again. So my ds had memorized spelling, but you could tell it wasn't clicking, didn't make sense to him. He was memorizing jibberish, sequences of data, and since he could he did. So I decided, in the absence of any better advice, to go BACK TO THE BEGINNING. I took that Rothstein book, fleshed out every chapter, put him through every page in the SPARC series (vocab, concepts, grammar). We were working on things like is, are, you, he, etc. And you might say it wasn't needed, but it was giving him a chance to see language afresh, to build from parts to whole, to MAKE SURE EVERY PART HAD MEANING. That's why I had him read aloud every line on every page. I had him answer everything in complete sentences. I wasn't particularly nice about it, kwim? If the HELP worksheet had yes/no, sorry you answer in a complete sentence. It worked. He started using original language and uses it the majority of the time now. If he's scripting, you can ask and he'll tell you where he got it from. Spelling magically started being interesting to him and he started asking about it. I also really like the Grammar Processing Program from Super Duper. It's one of my favorite things from them. I own a number of their decks but I don't find them terribly useful. You'll use them, especially for odd little things you want to make fun. But when you're saying what is your backbone, your major intervention that is going to get you over a hurdle, those decks aren't it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 I have a whole thread I made on language and another on narrative where I chronicle everything we did. We have more to do, sigh. Definitely look at narrative language as well. Don't blow all your wad on piddly things, because there's going to be more stuff to use your money on. Narrative language is a biggee. You can learn a lot for free on the Mindwing Concepts/Story Grammar Marker site if you just start reading. They have a generous blog and tons of free videos on youtube. Avail yourself. His language development and narrative development are intricately linked. In other words, you are going to work on the skills in language and apply them with narrative. https://mindwingconcepts.com/pages/methodology This has the charts to get you started. Think about it. A descriptive sequence needs adjectives. So you're going to work on what ABA calls Feature/Function/Class or what SLPs call attributes, function, categories, etc., and then you'll APPLY them by having him form descriptive narrations. Boom. So that was another lightning bolt for me, when I realized the autism people and the SLPs are saying to work on the same stuff, just using different terms. And when you say the people aren't taking your language concerns seriously, it maybe means that they thought he didn't need a VMPAC, didn't need some of that typical early intervention done with ABA, didn't get it, and now has these holes. And then he scripts and *seems* to have tons of language, so they say he's just one of those variants of autism with no language issues. Idiots. At least that's what happened to us. I'd say VMPAC and they'd look at me funny. He was 6 and they're like he's fine, why bother. Idiots. So we did it when he was 9. You're just smarter than me and doing it sooner. So you're on the right track. Just think about what precedes what skill wise so the tasks don't seem too hard to him. We want it in reach, always doable, low stress, easy. Even if he seems to know it, does he USE it? Independently in narratives? There's a big gap between sorta and solid. The SPARC books were super duper magic for my ds on that. https://www.linguisystems.com/Products/31159/sparc-for-attributes.aspx You would start here and use it alongside the attributes chapters in Rothstein. It's going to build you from using the words individually to sentences to narratives. Powerful, powerful stuff. It was wicked hard for my ds but in a good way, kwim? https://www.linguisystems.com/Products/31162/sparc-for-grammar.aspx My 2nd favorite. Imagine not just being able to use the components but to PUT THEM IN NARRATIVES by the end. This is therapy on steroids, rocket fuel!! https://www.linguisystems.com/Products/31161/sparc-for-concepts.aspx This one was a little looser but fine. I think go with your gut, but think through precursor skills, keep it easy. I don't know your ds to know what he needs. The nice thing about the Rothstein book is the pricepoint. :) If he flies through it and can do it all, answering everything in complete sentences, then you're pretty solid. But if he's not comprehending what he's reading there, I'd be backing up, just my two cents. If you just buy a dab at a time, you're not going to make huge mistakes, kwim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 (edited) 55 minutes ago, OnceUponAFullMoon said: He desperate needs to learn social skills (how to maintain a conversation,) problem solving, and control his emotion. He wants to or you want him to? I was actually curious, because I first read this as HIM being desperate, which I thought was really interesting. So conversation is a huge deal. There are some really *simple* things you can do now, like the popsicle stick conversation thing. Maybe it's on Social Thinking so you can do it for free. That would be something to farm out to an SLP. Does he get in-home ABA? That would be something to farm out to them. Do you have a socially typical relative, teen, person in the church, whatever, who would spend time with him? That would be another way to work on conversation. A lot of conversation is built on narrative, so it may kinda fall flat till you get a little narrative work going. Controlling your emotions, Zones, etc., yes, good stuff. https://www.kelly-mahler.com/product-category/online-courses/ Kelly Mahler has her new online course on Interoception ready, and this is THE BEES' KNEES. This is the one you want. The book is fine, curriculum great. The online course will help you connect the dots so you can apply it and innovate and customize. If you want to make a radical difference NOW and have $100 to spend, that's where I would put it. Like just me, but if you only have $100, put it there, use the free Rothstein pdf I linked you, and save up for more speech therapy materials later. Interoception is the precursor to Zones of Regulation. Zones will work fine for kids who have decent interoception, who can tell what their bodies are telling them. But if the person's interoception is glitched, they're getting too small, too BIG, or distorted inputs. How are they supposed to use those to self-monitor and apply the zones?? They don't, they can't, doesn't work. So that's why you want to work on Interoception FIRST. Then the Zones are just a concept, boom, easy to apply, don't even really need the book. I mean, I've been to the training, it's fine, and I would go to her advanced if Kuypers came back, sure. It's good stuff, but you have to develop the interoception. 55 minutes ago, OnceUponAFullMoon said: What Super Duper decks did you find most useful? What about their (cheaper) apps? I don't strongly recommend any of them. I've got scads I've collected, and they're sort of mildly useful, not life-altering. Unless you have $k$k to spend, your money is better put into learning about Interoception. 55 minutes ago, OnceUponAFullMoon said: It is so hard to find these linguisystems book used. I imagine most people are buying them as ebooks now. 55 minutes ago, OnceUponAFullMoon said: We read We Are Social Detective from the same publisher but my son was bored of his mind and refused to finish. So I decided to go with Spotlight on Social Skills for Primary instead. Have you looked into RDI? If you happen to have a consultant around who could do an intake assessment, it's interesting stuff. They work on non-verbals, starting with joint attention. Think about how much of the social dynamic revolves around non-verbals. Conversation requires non-verbals. If you can't find a consultant, you can get the book and do it yourself. It's all done as games, it's foundational, and it won't get in the way of anything else you're doing. You might like it. We had our assessment done some time ago, worked on the homework she gave, and never went back. We're scheduled for sessions starting this fall and I'm actually going to let the therapist do it. Normally it's just the parents with the homework tasks and training from the consult, but I wanted some extra help, a little cloning, lol. This lady has a lot more non-verbals than me and is really bringing it. I'm interested to see what happens. Some other therapists my ds was using tried a co-treat on him (2 therapists, 2 students) and he got horribly stressed. I think he couldn't follow the non-verbals to know who was going next, who was in charge, etc. More than language, non-verbals would have been driving that. And those therapists took it as a chance to break his will, to stop his controlling habits, blah blah. I'm like no, I really think he's not getting the non-verbals and is STRESSED. So we'll see what happens. That's what I mean about backing up, looking for the precursor skill, figuring out why it's not working. There is a really great book on conversation (by Mataya, endorsed by Aspy), but it's more than you need right now. There's a kit I got that we stared and didn't finish. It's from Northern Speech Services that I linked you to earlier and uses kinesthetic, multi-sensory instruction for conversation. And there's Conversation Club that AAPC publishes. I got that to use next, after we finish the kit from Northern. Edited August 5, 2019 by PeterPan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 https://www.socialthinking.com/Articles?name=add-thought-teach-essential-conversation-skill Here's the popsicle stick thing, I think. I didn't watch the video, but this should be it, lol. Super simple to do and something SLPs will do as their go-to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnceUponAFullMoon Posted August 5, 2019 Author Share Posted August 5, 2019 My son is a lot like yours. His school didn't 't believe me when I tried to explain he was using his background knowledge and echolalia to fake through MCQ and somehow landed himself on a 3rd grade level. They looked at me as if I were crazy. He couldn't understand a single sentence, or sometimes the individual words in it. He learnt his native language like a second language (like I did), not as a native speaker. Sorry I mean I want him to learn social skills. He doesn't know how to start a conversation, take turn, bounce back, keep things on topic, any of that. He just likes to talk non-stop instead of engaging in an actual conversation. Every time I try to follow up or bounce back with him, he switches topic and goes on by himself again. He did the same thing with extended family members talking to him over the phone. When my friends came over and tried to have a conversation with him, asking him questions, he just said "I don't know" then ignored them or walked away. He is only interested in numbers and board games topics. 1 hour ago, PeterPan said: I have a whole I made on language and another on narrative where I chronicle everything we did. Can you send me the link to those threads? Or were they the ones in your replies? 1 hour ago, PeterPan said: Have you looked into RDI? No. I've never heard of it. Does it work for hyperlexia type III with no official ASD diagnosis? Thanks a gain for all the useful information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer-72 Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 I am finally back. Similar to what I mentioned above about the problem solving books, both HELP for Auditory Processing and 100% listening are great books but you don’t really need both. I found the spotlight on listening comprehension series very helpful. The social skills set gave me some direction of areas I needed to work on with ds, but I think there are other things you can use instead that would lead to better gains. Given your son is only 7, you may want to look at something like The Question Challenge game from Super Duper (see link below) It targets a lots of areas you are looking to work on. if you keep checking the super duper site, you may find it on sale, as they regularly offer good sales on their materials. Also, if you have a iPad the between the lines app is a great app for targeting social skills Another set of apps to check out are by Happy Frog. She has some great reading comprehension apps and some social skills apps. I believe she has a few books out as well on both comprehension and social skills (see link). https://www.superduperinc.com/products/view.aspx?pid=GB42&s=the-question-challenge-card-game#.XUemFMrF2hA https://www.amazon.com/Six-Minute-Social-Skills-Workbook/dp/0995320829/ref=sr_1_1?crid=8TS7NKGML8AC&keywords=6+minute+social+skills&qid=1564976554&s=gateway&sprefix=6+minute+social%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-1 i found the hyperlexia kit very helpful for my ds and we then moved on and did visualize and verbalize. The hyperlexia kit is rather pricey, but I feel ds made great gains with it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer-72 Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 Oh one other resource to check out. Have you looked at any of the language materials on great ideas for teaching? Their materials are excellent, engaging and quite affordable. They are all good, but I particularly like the auditory processing in dinosaur land one. https://greatideasforteaching.com/product/auditory-processing-in-dinosaur-land/ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 59 minutes ago, OnceUponAFullMoon said: with no official ASD diagnosis? Are you planning on getting him diagnosed? You might be able to get some county funding or insurance coverage for ABA, SLP, something. Our children's hospital runs a day camp during the summer where they work on language and social skills. You might have some opportunities open up for you like this with diagnosis. 1 hour ago, OnceUponAFullMoon said: His school didn't 't believe me when I tried to explain he was using his background knowledge and echolalia to fake through MCQ and somehow landed himself on a 3rd grade level. I missed it, he's in school or homeschooled? The school officials will want to see testing. On my ds what showed it was the SPELT=Structured Photographic Expressive Language Test, and the CELF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnceUponAFullMoon Posted August 5, 2019 Author Share Posted August 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Jennifer-72 said: Similar to what I mentioned above about the problem solving books, both HELP for Auditory Processing and 100% listening are great books but you don’t really need both. So would you suggest HELP for Auditory Processing over 100% Listening? Have you tried Help Memory to improve working memory? 22 minutes ago, PeterPan said: Are you planning on getting him diagnosed? You might be able to get some county funding or insurance coverage for ABA, SLP, something. Our children's hospital runs a day camp during the summer where they work on language and social skills. You might have some opportunities open up for you like this with diagnosis. I missed it, he's in school or homeschooled? The school officials will want to see testing. On my ds what showed it was the SPELT=Structured Photographic Expressive Language Test, and the CELF. I am, though both his doctor and psychologist don't believe he has ASD. He matches every single description for hyperlexia though. He's in school. I was trying to convince the school to test him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer-72 Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 I would probably lean to the HELP book over 100%. I didn’t use the auditory memory one, so I don’t have any comment on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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