taraxacum5 Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Is there someone with a child in the Essentials level of Classical Conversations who can tell me if an additional grammar program is necessary? My daughter will be in the Essentials program next year. She will be a fifth grader. I have heard that the Essentials English is quite challenging. I am planning a big upheaval in curriculum choices for next year, trying to consolidate so that I am able to teach my 3rd grader and fifth grader grammar at the same time. I would like to use Shurley Grammar for both of them, but do not know if this will be too much for my daughter, with the Essentials program. Any thoughts? Thanks for help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBP Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 I would pick either Essentials, which uses Leigh Bortins's Essentials of the English Language for grammar, OR Shurley. Definitely not both. We haven't used EEL, but my understanding is that it is very challenging and would definitely be too much either to combine with another program or to use with most 3rd graders. If you're set on keeping the 3rd and 5th grader together, I'd suggest maybe going with Shurley 4. There's a great deal of repetition in Shurley 3, 4 & 5, and my 3rd grader did fine in Shurley 4. Hope this helps, rather than just muddying the waters :). SBP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 You only need one of the grammar programs. If you want to do well with EEl, you're suppose to do it 3-4 times for 45 minutes and then you do writing (IEW), too. You also are to be doing Latin to prepare for Challenge A. That will take time each day! If you want to start early, I recommend you talk to the tutor about Essentials and what you should start to go over. I would not buy another program, if I was going to do Essentials, next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 (edited) I'm an Essentials Tutor, and you'll have plenty to do. Most of the moms in our group use their own spelling program, but otherwise Essentials is all you need. Essentials does include spelling lists if you want them. You can actually use the Essentials materials with your third grader if you focus on the definitions and dictation/labelling assignments (i.e. just the early steps of it). Our campus actually has 2 levels of Essentials, and I teach the lower class of mostly 3rd and a few 4th graders. Essentials works fine for 3rd graders if you're able to scale it down and have reasonable expecations. The definitions in Shurley are slightly different than Essentials, so I wouldn't mix them. It's a 24-week program, so you'll need to decide if you need to add something to get a full 36 weeks or not. I use the Essentials materials to review with my kids over the December holiday (they also do several extra IEW assignments), and then we work through Our Mother Tongue (the optional grammar textbook) and do a few more IEW assignments, doing some over the summer to keep sharp. I may have them do a grammar review textbook this summer instead, but I haven't decided. Edited November 21, 2008 by GVA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLJen Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 My fourth grader started Essentials this year, and we actually do the Shurley grammar question and answer flow on the weekly task sheets. Our teacher also introduces the Shurley jingles and encourages the students to memorize them. I've never used Shurley grammar, so I don't know all it entails, but these are the two components from it that I know are included in Essentials. I also sporadically use FLL 4 with my fourth grader, because it's what I'm using with my 3rd grader, and I really enjoy doing it with both. But I don't know how necessary it is. Hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawneinfl Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 I am a CC Director and my Essentials Tutor thinks Shurley English is a great prep for Essentials. I definitely wouldn't add another program to it - it's intensive enough, especially the first year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 I am a CC Director and my Essentials Tutor thinks Shurley English is a great prep for Essentials. I definitely wouldn't add another program to it - it's intensive enough, especially the first year. So is Shurley Grammar as good as Essentials? Or just different. How do you all find Essentials' Grammar different and better than Shurley Grammar would be...if used in a group situation. And, lastly, how long have you had it on your campus? :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taraxacum5 Posted November 22, 2008 Author Share Posted November 22, 2008 Another question- if the end plan is Essentials in 4th grade, how is FLL vs. Shurley for preparation? We use FLL for 1st and 2nd grade, and enjoy. Not sure if I should start Shurley for 3rd grade before Essentials, or stick with FLL. Sorry to be so nit picky- I do tend to obsess!!! Frustrating when my "knowledge" is mere theory and not yet functional reality! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLJen Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Another question- if the end plan is Essentials in 4th grade, how is FLL vs. Shurley for preparation? We use FLL for 1st and 2nd grade, and enjoy. Not sure if I should start Shurley for 3rd grade before Essentials, or stick with FLL. Sorry to be so nit picky- I do tend to obsess!!! Frustrating when my "knowledge" is mere theory and not yet functional reality! We used FLL and FLL3 for 1st through 3rd, and I thought it was a good preparation for Essentials. But my son catches on very quickly, and enjoys the classroom setting. He isn't familiar with everything in EEL, but he is comfortable with learning it because he's already learned some of the "grammar" of grammar from FLL. In the EEL curriculum, they point out that for 4th graders, EEL is all about exposure. They do the exact same curriculum next year, and the year after that. And while he is, at times, unsure about what's going on in class, the beauty is that I'm there with him, and can help him later at home. I will say that the kids in the class who've had Shurley are quite adept at the grammar portion of the class. They participate in the question and answer flows very comfortably. But I see that as something we can look forward to, and now know how to practice at home. To answer an earlier question, this is the second year our campus has had EEL, the first year my son is doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda...inOwasso Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Taraxacum: I would highly recommend using Shurley 3 in 3rd as I feel it provides a much stronger preparation for Essentials! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawneinfl Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 The children with some exposure to the Shurley question and answer flow seem to have an easier time transitioning to the first year of Essentials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Another question- if the end plan is Essentials in 4th grade, how is FLL vs. Shurley for preparation? We use FLL for 1st and 2nd grade, and enjoy. Not sure if I should start Shurley for 3rd grade before Essentials, or stick with FLL. Sorry to be so nit picky- I do tend to obsess!!! Frustrating when my "knowledge" is mere theory and not yet functional reality! If you want a "canned" program, definitely Shurley. It's closer to Essentials than FLL. The one disadvantage is that the definitions are slightly different, so you might consider doing Shurley with the Essentials definitions. My oldest did Shurley and then Essentials, and he struggled the first year because of the different wording. My 3rd grader is in my Essentials class now (our campus has two levels), and I actually taughter her the Essentials definitions last year and then had her do 2-3 Essentials sentences per week with the labelling. This year she's doing diagramming as well. Her grasp of the parts of speech is very solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughing lioness Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 I agree with Linda! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taraxacum5 Posted November 25, 2008 Author Share Posted November 25, 2008 Good stuff, very on point! Many thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.