Stay with Barton or move on to what?

[Bookworm4]

3 hours ago, PeterPan said:

We've used two OTs for handwriting. Well actually that's not true. All 4 OTs who have worked with him over the years have worked on handwriting. He's diagnosed with SLD Writing, and at this point even the ps (spit spit) will acknowledge it as a significant disability. He can get single letters that he can combine into single words with assistance and enough time. So yeah, it could be an SLD. Definitely try OT. For my dd, there were some physical issues the OT could help. Our new OT has a phd and worked in vision therapy for her internship and specializes in visual connections to learning. Even she is like get this kid typing. So at some point it helps to have someone helping you make that call. I am not gonna guilt myself, because it just is what it is. 

Is that Angling or something else? I looked through a lot but things jumbled in my brain. In a side note, the ATP/HN people are doofusses. They sat on my order a WEEK after I placed it, so it hasn't even shipped. Blew my mind. The lady was like oh well schools had a holiday last week. So?!?! If I place an order, I mean for it to get shipped! What idiots. So people shouldn't expect orders in timely fashion from them I guess. They have men in caves writing all the books they send you apparently.

Thanks.  I am certain that younger DD also has several retained reflexes impacting her handwriting and other motor control (she still struggles with buttons, opens and closes her mouth as her hand opens and closes when using scissors, and more).  I am hoping to finish wrapping my head around some of the exercises this week to start working on integration.  Unfortunately, no one in this area is trained in integrating them outside of some work at the vision therapy center.  If what we try at home doesn't start helping, I will figure out a way to travel 3+ areas to the person that I'm aware of that does a lot of work in this area.  In the meantime, I'm hoping that a local OT and the exercises I do with her will be enough, but time will tell.  I took a class years ago on retained reflexes and have been digging through my notes from the class.  I am also checking into the possibility of Equipping Minds for DD.

It sounds like you have a great OT.  It is nice sometimes to have someone professionally trained in an area your child struggles help make decisions of when to move on and what will help your child best.  I wasn't very impressed with the OT my older DD worked with years ago and hope that we can find a good one for younger DD in the area.  I really should have DD start on typing as well this year.

Thanks for the forewarning to expect a possible shipping delay from HN.  I ordered level 2 last night and am still hoping it will ship this week.

[PeterPan]

I hate to say this, but you need to go ahead and get that OT/PT scheduled. If you need a referral from your ped for insurance, then let him sort out which. That buttons thing is not going to improve by working on retained reflexes. You need to go ahead and get evals and get some service. Even an imperfect OT would be a BIG HELP at this point with what you're describing. Like I meaning to be a little stern or serious here. I know things pile up and you have 20 things you could do and you get overwhelmed and are like ok well then I'll do this or that. I'm saying what you described is enough to move up that OT/PT eval. That's more than run of the mill and it won't improve just because you work your butt off on retained reflexes. The month or two you spend working on reflexes could have been doubly powerful in getting her going forward if you were working with an OT/PT. You need both. Even if the person is imperfect and you don't stay a long time, you're gonna get some useful help. 

What's Equipping Minds? Is that for a different dc or the younger with the reflexes, fine motor, etc.? 

And no, actually, I wouldn't say I have a great OT, lol. Seriously, it's a weird field where they work so hard, get degrees, and then don't have lots more knowledge that we, as consumers, would be like why don't you know this and this and this... So our current OT has some niche strengths and interests in visual processing, so she brings a lot on that to the table. I've challenged her on Interoception, because that's what I really, really need for ds, and I gave her a book and sent her links for training like hello, learn the thing I want you to do with ds!! She has a phd, sure, but she doesn't have a clue how to do what I really need. It's a simple concept and she has plenty of brains. If I were paying myself, I'd probably walk, just because I can't pay for that. But right now, the disability scholarship pays, and it's getting me a break where I drop him off for 2 1/2 hours and he gets high quality services. There are more reasons for him to be there than just the OT. The compliance is good, the social is good, the self-regulation (dealing with other people, transitioning, etc.) is good. But is she knowledgeable about everything I want? Nope, lol. You could say I'm training my OT, lol. Actually I gave her carte blanche, like he's yours for x time, do whatever you jolly well want. 

In your case, your younger dd's needs are so glaring and so within the purview of basic, entry level OT that right now ANY OT/PT could help you. You aren't asking for rocket science, just basic stuff they all learn in school. It's stuff that could have some improvement in 2 months (the 2 months you're suggesting you might wait) and it's stuff they'd probably give you homework for. You could walk into almost any OT/PT right now who does pediatrics and they'd help you and get you noticeable improvement in two months. So I'm saying don't wait the 2 months, get the referral, get in. And if the first person is worthless, try another till you click and get some help going.

I've had all kinds of OTs. The previous one we used had ABA training and she just kicked butt with making hard work engaging. She'd make these spy games and obstacle courses and do coding and it was just stellar. And her ABA training gave her great language/interaction skills. This phd chick doesn't have that pizzaz, but she's fine and has great toys (hammock, blah blah). So they're all a little different. You start, use 'em till they stop being useful, move on.

8 hours ago, Bookworm4 said:

I ordered level 2 last night and am still hoping it will ship this week.

Ooo, I hope you like it! I'll bet your ships when my stuff does. She said she'd run the batch today, so yours will probably come promptly. 

[summerreading]

I haven't read through everything but saw that you tried the trial of Nessy. I just posted about Nessy looking for similar advice. I don't think a program that puts spelling and reading together and won't let the child advance in both if there is an issue in one is a good fit. 

[Bookworm4]

On 9/11/2018 at 4:22 AM, PeterPan said:

I hate to say this, but you need to go ahead and get that OT/PT scheduled. If you need a referral from your ped for insurance, then let him sort out which. That buttons thing is not going to improve by working on retained reflexes. You need to go ahead and get evals and get some service. Even an imperfect OT would be a BIG HELP at this point with what you're describing. Like I meaning to be a little stern or serious here. I know things pile up and you have 20 things you could do and you get overwhelmed and are like ok well then I'll do this or that. I'm saying what you described is enough to move up that OT/PT eval. That's more than run of the mill and it won't improve just because you work your butt off on retained reflexes. The month or two you spend working on reflexes could have been doubly powerful in getting her going forward if you were working with an OT/PT. You need both. Even if the person is imperfect and you don't stay a long time, you're gonna get some useful help. 

What's Equipping Minds? Is that for a different dc or the younger with the reflexes, fine motor, etc.? 

And no, actually, I wouldn't say I have a great OT, lol. Seriously, it's a weird field where they work so hard, get degrees, and then don't have lots more knowledge that we, as consumers, would be like why don't you know this and this and this... So our current OT has some niche strengths and interests in visual processing, so she brings a lot on that to the table. I've challenged her on Interoception, because that's what I really, really need for ds, and I gave her a book and sent her links for training like hello, learn the thing I want you to do with ds!! She has a phd, sure, but she doesn't have a clue how to do what I really need. It's a simple concept and she has plenty of brains. If I were paying myself, I'd probably walk, just because I can't pay for that. But right now, the disability scholarship pays, and it's getting me a break where I drop him off for 2 1/2 hours and he gets high quality services. There are more reasons for him to be there than just the OT. The compliance is good, the social is good, the self-regulation (dealing with other people, transitioning, etc.) is good. But is she knowledgeable about everything I want? Nope, lol. You could say I'm training my OT, lol. Actually I gave her carte blanche, like he's yours for x time, do whatever you jolly well want. 

In your case, your younger dd's needs are so glaring and so within the purview of basic, entry level OT that right now ANY OT/PT could help you. You aren't asking for rocket science, just basic stuff they all learn in school. It's stuff that could have some improvement in 2 months (the 2 months you're suggesting you might wait) and it's stuff they'd probably give you homework for. You could walk into almost any OT/PT right now who does pediatrics and they'd help you and get you noticeable improvement in two months. So I'm saying don't wait the 2 months, get the referral, get in. And if the first person is worthless, try another till you click and get some help going.

I've had all kinds of OTs. The previous one we used had ABA training and she just kicked butt with making hard work engaging. She'd make these spy games and obstacle courses and do coding and it was just stellar. And her ABA training gave her great language/interaction skills. This phd chick doesn't have that pizzaz, but she's fine and has great toys (hammock, blah blah). So they're all a little different. You start, use 'em till they stop being useful, move on.

Ooo, I hope you like it! I'll bet your ships when my stuff does. She said she'd run the batch today, so yours will probably come promptly. 

Thanks.  Your experience with OTs makes sense.  I hadn't thought about it before, but I'm sure it's such a vast field of training that not everyone gets trained in all areas or understands all areas as well.  Somewhat like seeing a general practitioner vs a specialist for certain types of medical problems.  I actually brought up about an OT referral to our ped while we were there yesterday morning.  He suggested I check with the school first as there is only 1 place locally that does pediatric OT and has a long waiting list.  I was supposed to hear back from the school about a speech eval and haven't yet so that is on my list for tomorrow morning to follow up with them about both evals and find out why the SLP hasn't scheduled an eval yet.  If she doesn't qualify at the school, private with the long waiting list is our next option.  If our local school still uses skype for work with an OT (they didn't have one on site last I knew), then I will ask our ped to put in the referral this week so we can get the waiting game at the next place started.  It's also time to update her vision therapy exam due to a variety of changes since she was examined 3 years ago.

I don't actually expect everything to fix itself with integrating reflexes, but I feel like she will be able to progress more once those reflexes are integrated, whether with an OT or at home.  I also feel like those retained reflexes are inhibiting her from developing normally.  This weekend I remembered I had several books by OT Mom that I had printed and bound from when my older DD was going through handwriting struggles.  While I wait to get in with an actual OT, I will try those suggestions to at least do something.  As for buttons, I didn't word her ability well.  She can do some buttons that are easier (like on a dress sweater), but she struggles with larger harder buttons like on a pair of jeans.  I feel like she should be able to do the jeans buttons by now.  Tying shoes are an issue, but that is likely a combination of midline and fine motor issues for her.

I have to run but will be back to explain the rest later.

 

[Bookworm4]

On 9/11/2018 at 4:22 AM, PeterPan said:

What's Equipping Minds? Is that for a different dc or the younger with the reflexes, fine motor, etc.? 

 

Ooo, I hope you like it! I'll bet your ships when my stuff does. She said she'd run the batch today, so yours will probably come promptly. 

Equipping Minds is a type of cognitive therapy.  I first heard about them from a HSLDA newsletter.  They identify both strengths and weaknesses during an evaluation and then work to strengthen the weaknesses.  They look at areas of retained reflexes, visual processing, auditory processing, working memory, processing speed, and more from my understanding.  Obviously it won't be the same as a full exam from a vision therapy center, or an exam by an audiologist, etc.  I have read various reviews about how helpful it was in various types of struggles and how people also in other therapies at the same time made much faster progress in those other therapies than was typical.  They offer services that range from providing the therapy themselves 5 days a week to doing a mix of therapies with their therapist and the parents doing the majority of the therapy work to providing a program with video training and materials that a parent or other adult can buy, watch, and learn and then implement on their own.  They provide both in person and via skype services as well.  If you are an HSLDA member then they will even evaluate your child for free. 

I am going to have both my girls evaluated.  My oldest has a very slow processing speed and would benefit from the rapid naming work and while she has good working memory, it can always be strengthened.  I feel like younger DD could benefit from a mix of everything to be honest.  Younger DD was always "not quite bad enough" to qualify for different types of therapy services in the past, but as she has gotten older she has continued to fall behind peers her age and may qualify for some different therapies at this point.  Time will tell with evaluations this fall.

The developer of Equipping Minds was published in the Journal of Alternative Medicine Research this summer and also has other research linked on their website.  I also saw a few people mention using Equipping Minds in a Barton facebook group I'm and comments about how it helped these struggling students.  One tutor mentioned a student who even had a hard time going through Foundation in Sounds so she stopped it and worked through Equipping Minds material first and then the student had no problems completing Foundation in Sounds.  It's all interesting enough that I want to learn more and explore this option. 

I hope my High Noon order ships this week!  Hopefully they will email me when they do ship it, but don't know if that is normal for them or not.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Bookworm4