Is IEW a good choice for our situation?

[forty-two]

This is for my oldest, 12yo and 7th grade.  She's always been a reluctant writer - both the "putting ideas into words" and the "putting words on paper" steps have always been hard for her (and I have wondered about both stealth dyslexia and dysgraphia).  We did WWE2 and half of WWE3 in 4th and 5th, which did wonders for her.  Last year we started WWS1 mid-year, after doing mostly-daily written summaries on books of her choice, but the summaries/narrations - i.e. the parts that I thought had been mastered - became like pulling teeth.  (She did pretty well at the outlining (easy), and at the writing from an outline (a manageable sort of hard).)  So I went back to WWE3 to shore it up, but it was both too easy and too hard.  She could do any given assignment easily, especially the oral narration, but doing it day in and day out was too much - after a week or so of written summaries, she started baulking and resisting.  After several fits and starts, I ended up finishing out the year with daily free choice writing - either copywork (book of her choice) or whatever she wanted to write.  She usually picked copywork, and it was mostly fine so long as it was her choice of book.  This year I started back up with WWE3 just until I bought this year's writing program (was originally thinking LToW), and a week into it and she's easily giving an oral summary and melting down at the prospect of writing it down.  Sigh. 

My best guess is that the combo of easy/uninteresting thinking with hard physical-act-of-writing is giving her too little to think about other than how hard (and pointless) the writing is.  She's a voracious reader, and in the past year has developed an interest in creative writing.  Every so often she pecks away at a story on the computer in her free time.  She says she has tons of ideas, but getting them down is hard.  When we watched the intro video to LToW, introducing the three canons, she said that the ideas part of writing was easy for her (invention), but the arrangement and elocution parts were hard.  (I don't think she consciously thinks about it anymore, but the physical act of writing is still hard for her, too.  As is spelling.  We've started typing this year (Touch, Type, Read and Spell), which is also hard for her.)

Anyway, I had been planning to start LToW - it's a program I really want to use, plus I think she needs something different from what we've been doing.  I've been hitting her weaknesses pretty hard with writing so far, and haven't really tapped into her strengths.  WWE/WWS1 gives you the ideas to work on, so you can just focus on finding the words and writing the words without having to do the work of coming up with something to say.  And this was really good for her at first, when she was rather inarticulate, and she loved the stories in WWE.  But now she is bursting with ideas and really wants to write what she's interested in.  (Or she says she does, but given the choice she does straight copywork of a favorite book.  That gives maximum interest with minimum thinking.)  In any case, ideas seem to be her strong point.  But I've been worried that she really doesn't have a strong enough foundation in basic writing skills to get the most of out of LToW.  Her intuitive sentence structure is good and varied, and her instinctive paragraphing is good, but we've done no formal study of either (and my various grammar program failures have now ruined grammar for her, which makes me really sad, because I love grammar; we've going to have to get it through Latin).  We've done no editing (minus correcting copywork), because just getting the words on the page is so darn hard that the prospect of finding weaknesses and making improvements is demoralizing - she cries at the thought.  (It's also hormone central here - she cries all the time, at the slightest frustration, whenever anything gets the slightest bit hard.  But writing is a long-standing kind of hard.)

But I ran across a discussion of IEW and SWI, and I'm wondering if SWI-B might not be the ticket (and do LToW next year).  Thoughts?

Edited August 24, 2018 by forty-two

[monalisa]

For what its worth, Classical Conversations uses IEW for 4th - 6th and then transitions in LTW 1 in 7th (Challenge A).  Apparently, its a good combination.  My own dd did not do CC, but did several years of IEW and took LTW last year (online) through CiRCE (they won't allow students younger than 14 in their online classes, btw). Also, she did WWE up through level 3 before starting IEW.  It went well for her to take LTW 1 at that point.  Based on what you've described (and having used SWI A myself), I'd say its worth trying.  If you buy the IEW SWI B directly from IEW, you can return it at any point for a 100% refund (including shipping), so you really have nothing to lose.

[smarson]

It would definitely be worth trying IEW. We’ve only done it one year with my then 3rd grader and I like that it gives them some structure and provides them with the source material so they’re not having to come up with the story themselves. I’d give IEW a call for placement, they’re amazing! This would be a good choice if your kids do well with structure. If they need something a bit more creative and open ended I’d consider Bravewriter but it sounds like IEW would at least be a place to start. You (they) don’t have to do it forever but it lays some good groundwork.

[smarson]

One more thing I just wanted to share. I’m. It trying to be rude or insensitive here, it’s just something that is on my heart to share for whatever reason.  Take what you like and leave the rest. ?.

It might just be that writing is going to be a challenge you both have to take on.  I have a friend who has a 13 yo and writing/reading have always been a battle with this specific child. She mostly listens to all her books via LibriVox, audible, etc.  My friend will even will record herself reading it aloud for the daughter to listen to later.  For writing, they mostly do a text to speech thing where she speaks it into her phone. It’s just something they’ve worked out together and it’s a way they’ve made it for for them. Is it a perfect solution?no way. Is it a solution that will work for every family. No way. But it’s a compromise they’ve found and her daughter is able to continue learning.  

i pray you’re able to find a workable solution and IEW really is a great program that I feel ALL kids can at least benefit a little from. 

[forty-two]

Thank you all :).  I went ahead and got SWI-B.  I had dd watch the samples with me, and she figured it would be "ok", although she preferred LToW.  But she's willing to give it a try, especially because it's not like we aren't going to do LToW at some point anyway.  I think it will be good for both of us to have a year of building up the basics.

@smarson, you're right that writing might just be a challenge no matter what.  I know a few years ago I came to the realization that school being hard didn't necessarily mean we had a problem or that we needed a change - it could just mean that it was hard and was going to require work and discipline.  AKA I learned that "hard" isn't the same as "bad".  It was a very necessary lesson.  Last year I did let writing slide, but it wasn't so much because I thought that writing being hard was itself the problem, but that last year was a hard year life-wise (job insecurity and then a cross-country move), and between the life stress and the habit-unsettling nature of starting a new writing program, I didn't have (or didn't want to have) the energy to figure out how to make writing happen despite dd's resistance.  Obviously not something I can afford to continue, but God willing, I'm in a better place to make writing happen this year, even if dd isn't any more motivated to make writing happen this year than she was last year <sigh>. 

But, yeah, I've been in the "if it's hard, it must be a problem with the curriculum" frame of mind, and I agree that it's a damaging one.  And it's easy fall back into - that the right curriculum will make everything be sunshine and roses.  It's good to be reminded that even successful homeschooling is still hard work, no matter how you slice it - there's no easy button, and chasing after one just gets you into trouble.

Edited September 1, 2018 by forty-two

[cintinative]

You might consider scribing some for her if it helps her get the ideas from her head onto paper faster. Or using a talk to type app.

I am not sure if you bought SWI-B from IEW directly, but if you did, they have a 100% money back, no time limit guarantee.

We have been using IEW exclusively but this year (for 7th and 6th) we will be trying LTOW.  I am glad we did IEW first after looking over the LTOW materials. The outlines and steps will not be intimidating, leaving our energies for the creation portion.  This is just my opinion of course, but on paper at least, I like the model for the persuasive essay presented by LTOW better. However, it is one of the last models you learn in IEW. So I think your plan to do IEW and then LTOW should be great.  ?

 

 

[Faith Dean]

We did IEW SWI and SWICC for both levels A & B. The essay instruction was satisfactory but we found that the focus was pretty rudimentary. However, when we did IEW's Elegant Essay, my dds finally started creating well-organized, well-worded essays. It was nice to take a full course and really focus on essays, which included intros, conclusions, and well-constructed body paragraphs.

I don't have experience with LToW but it looks like Elegant Essay would be similar and it keeps with some of the same style techniques taught by SWI and SWICC. Just another option to consider.

[cintinative]

6 hours ago, Faith Dean said:

We did IEW SWI and SWICC for both levels A & B. The essay instruction was satisfactory but we found that the focus was pretty rudimentary. However, when we did IEW's Elegant Essay, my dds finally started creating well-organized, well-worded essays. It was nice to take a full course and really focus on essays, which included intros, conclusions, and well-constructed body paragr

 

This is really good to know. We are just finishing SICC-B and I hope that after we do LTOW we will hit Elegant Essay. I want to detox a bit from dress ups and sentence openers.