KJB Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 This is cross-posted to the accelerated learners board, but I have a feeling the voice of experience might be hanging out here.:D I'm wondering if there would be any reason to pursue early college entrance exam testing for my dd. Are there advantages to taking the SAT or ACT in jr high? Are there any disadvantages? How many times are you allowed to take either exam before it "counts"? And while I'm here, I would also like some advice about high school for my daughter. When we first started home schooling, I was pretty sure my children would go to high school outside the home. As we've progressed, I began to think we'd manage high school at home but supplement with community college when appropriate. At this point, the second plan is my preference. However, we are going to be moving like fools over the next 5 to 10 years. (My dh is in the military.) For the next three years we will most likely move at least three times. This means my dd would (were she to enter high school) go to at least 3, possibly more, high schools. I also am exhausted at trying to think of how we'll do community college when the schools will end up being different each year. Given this information, what would you do? My dd is very bright, and most likely could enter a university early. She might even qualify to enter very early. But, I don't want her gone. I don't want to miss her high school age years. I don't want to send her away to college or boarding school. So, how do you manage a student like this who will need community college but will not be able to use the same cc for more than one year? Do you typically have to advocate for cc entrance for a younger high school aged student? Am I going to run into trouble trying to find cc that will transfer credits for dd? I'm not sure exactly what I'm asking. I'm just feeling overwhelmed at the prospect of all of our moving and trying to have dd have an excellent high school experience. Any words of wisdom are welcome. Sigh.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ria Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 This is cross-posted to the accelerated learners board, but I have a feeling the voice of experience might be hanging out here.:D I'm wondering if there would be any reason to pursue early college entrance exam testing for my dd. Are there advantages to taking the SAT or ACT in jr high? Are there any disadvantages? How many times are you allowed to take either exam before it "counts"? And while I'm here, I would also like some advice about high school for my daughter. When we first started home schooling, I was pretty sure my children would go to high school outside the home. As we've progressed, I began to think we'd manage high school at home but supplement with community college when appropriate. At this point, the second plan is my preference. However, we are going to be moving like fools over the next 5 to 10 years. (My dh is in the military.) For the next three years we will most likely move at least three times. This means my dd would (were she to enter high school) go to at least 3, possibly more, high schools. I also am exhausted at trying to think of how we'll do community college when the schools will end up being different each year. Given this information, what would you do? My dd is very bright, and most likely could enter a university early. She might even qualify to enter very early. But, I don't want her gone. I don't want to miss her high school age years. I don't want to send her away to college or boarding school. So, how do you manage a student like this who will need community college but will not be able to use the same cc for more than one year? Do you typically have to advocate for cc entrance for a younger high school aged student? Am I going to run into trouble trying to find cc that will transfer credits for dd? I'm not sure exactly what I'm asking. I'm just feeling overwhelmed at the prospect of all of our moving and trying to have dd have an excellent high school experience. Any words of wisdom are welcome. Sigh.... I'm not sure why having your dd attend various community colleges is a problem. We haven't moved, but one of my twins took classes at a local university and a local cc prior to entering college. The colleges your dd will apply to won't care - a simple explanation of your military/moving status will be sufficient. You should know that many colleges will NOT accept cc classes for credit. Schools that do accept cc credits may only accept cc credits from their own state. Don't ever assume that a cc credit will count at a 4-year school...every college is different. If your dd has access to a local university those credits would be more likely to transfer, but again, all schools are different and some won't even accept those! As for the SAT/ACT, I'm having my 9th grader take the SAT in Dec. He's a bright kid, and I'm curious to see how he'll do. There's no disadvantage for taking it "early." As far as entering college early, there's a lot more to this than just being bright. The child would also have to be extremely mature. You could talk to Jenny in FL on the accelerated board about this; her dd is in college (I think she's 13 and a sophomore). Ria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie in AR Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 (edited) I'm wondering if there would be any reason to pursue early college entrance exam testing for my dd. Are there advantages to taking the SAT or ACT in jr high? Are there any disadvantages? My boys took the ACT through the Duke TIP last year when they were 7th graders. It was a good experience for them, and I'm planning for them to take it every spring for the next few years. They didn't do any extra studying for it at all, though I am sure that will change once they're ready for the results to "count." We may add in the SAT at some point so they can get a feel for that exam, too. ETA: At this point (now 8th graders), we are unsure whether they will be pursuing early entrance or dual enrollment, so that wasn't really our motivation for them taking the test. We just thought it would be worthwhile for them to get acquainted with a college entrance exam. Edited October 25, 2008 by Jackie in AR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJB Posted October 25, 2008 Author Share Posted October 25, 2008 I recall that your Dad is retired from the service. If I remember correctly, his rank is high enough that I'm assuming your family wouldn't have been able to escape the moves in the name of a child finishing school one place or another. Did you move around through high school as a child? Did you have to change high schools once or more? And, if so, how did those moves impact your college application process and your overall high school experience? I'm just dreading trying to find adequate resources to get my daughter an excellent education through high school while relocating every year. It's already exhausting to have to find a new piano teacher every time we move and up until now we've only had to move every three years. Now, I'm looking at finding new extra curricular opportunities, music teachers, community colleges, etc. every year when she's in high school. And it's not like she's my only child (she's the eldest of our 5), plus my dh's career is going to demand more of me in the coming years (sounds crazy but it's true). It almost makes early university sound good but I have a host of reasons I'd prefer not to travel that path. If for no other reason, we may live some interesting places with great travel/experience opportunities. I'd hate for dd to miss out. Plus, I don't know if she'd be mature enough to handle being away just yet. I don't think *I'm* mature enough to handle her being away, if nothing else. Oh well. Thanks for letting me complain and thanks for your help. Kate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJB Posted October 25, 2008 Author Share Posted October 25, 2008 You answered a question I've wondered. I didn't know if a child could be penalized by taking the test multiple times. I'm assuming at no point will the younger student scores be used or averaged. You know, it's interesting, because it seems like early admission testing gives kids (who are already smart since they're being allowed to test) an advantage over bright kids who don't qualify to take the test as a youngster. I wonder why this is allowed. Thanks again, Jackie! I think we're going to try to test next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ria Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 KJB, My dad was an engineering duty officer, and from 5th grade on we lived in Northern VA (he worked at Crystal City, the Navy's version of the Pentagon in the DC area...he now lives here in PA and still commutes down to Arlington each week to consult for the Navy...), so I have no experience with changing high schools, sorry! One thing you could consider are online AP classes. I know PA Homeschoolers offers a lot of them, and they are very challenging. In fact, some of the colleges that will not accept cc credits will accept good AP scores. Do you think that might be an option? http://www.pahomeschoolers.com/courses/index.html Ria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAR120C Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 It used to be that the SAT reported all scores taken after the end of 8th grade (or something like that -- basically all scores unless you were really really young) but they've changed that just this year, so now SAT and ACT both allow you to report only the scores you want reported. We're in NC and have an annual testing requirement.... DS has been taking the Explore ("pre ACT") for the past few years and I suspect this year he'll be reaching the end of its usefulness and we'll switch to the ACT for our annual testing. If that's the case, he'll have an ACT score every year until he graduates or we move. If it weren't for the testing requirement I wouldn't do it annually, but I might consider it a couple times starting whenever I thought it wouldn't be overwhelming. We'll probably throw in an SAT somewhere or other... it doesn't count for our annual testing, so I'm not really in a hurry, but probably whenever we switch to the ACT we'll take a shot at the SAT too. DS is younger than yours, so I can't say anything about high school from experience... only that if I were moving I think I'd generally be more tempted to homeschool just for the stability (and consistency of classes/ requirements), but on the other hand if you were moving to somewhere that had no established homeschool group, PS might be a good "settling in with a social group" scene... and at some point that could be more important than consistent academics. CC might be a good alternative, since I think consistency would be less important there... but I don't know anything about the social scene and whether it would help things or not. I'm not much help, eh? ;) Good luck!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharon in MD Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 using the SAT or ACT. I believe that JHU uses just the SAT, but I don't know about Duke. I am not sure about testing early with out the benefit of being in one of these programs as far as the scores being kept by the college board. If you test through a gifted talent search, the scores don't get kept, but rather are only used to gain entrance to the gifted program. We did the test in 8th grade and I do think it was worth it. If you haunt the accelerated board you can find a long post by me over there that explains fully why we were so pleased with the results. An additional thing about the SAT, they are changing the way they report scores to schools in the Spring. After the March test, I think, they will allow students to choose which day's scores are sent to colleges. So if you decide not to pursue the gifted testing, I'd check the date this new plan goes into effect and wait until then to test. If you want to pursue the gifted testing, I think they have to test while in 7th or 8th grades. Here's the thread by the way http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=564755#poststop My husband is retired military. And while we were blessed with being forced to retire by not being willing to accept a bad post, we had been planning to homeschool through high school if possible because of the continuity it would provide in our son's education. One of the things we were not happy about with the military lifestyle was bouncing the kid through nine bazillion different schools and the constant stress of the changes. By homeschooling you provide an additional level of security and stability in your kids' lives. I'd shy away from the early college, as in live there, idea. That would bring even more separation and your dd is likely to really need you in her high school years. At least that is my opinion. Our son is a senior now and I would not trade the time we've had with him at home for the world. I really believe it has helped him to have that time to mature and become more solid in his convictions before he goes out the door. There are so many options out there for homeschooling through high school. There are dvd based courses like Chalkdust for math, Bob Jones Satellite courses, cc courses, on-line options. You can do this. I just want to encourage you that you don't have to fear that it will be beyond your abilities. Just focus on the prize, a well educated, secure young woman. Hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outtamyshell Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Considering highschool for a gifted child who moves frequently, here are a couple things I would consider... SAT Testing Some recommend all 7th graders take the SAT. You don't need to 'qualify' to take it. Anyone can sign up. There are lots of scholarships and gifted programs that could open up for you having your child take the test early. Check out "What High School don't Tell You" for some specifics. Online Courses There are lots of online classes that could move with you around the country. If you find one that is a good fit for you, you could stick with it even while you move. This may give you the stability you are looking for. Community Colleges / Early College Consider what your objectives are. Are you considering this option for highschool credit? Or do you want to get started on college credits early? Some schools have a minimum age for community college enrollment. Ours is 16. You may choose to accelerate highschool and finish in two years. Or you may choose to dig deeper in depth. I haven't paid attention to what college credits my daughter can transfer. I count her cc classes for highschool credit. And if she has to start from scratch when she goes to college, that is fine with me. My goal is a broad, liberal arts education. I would like her to take as many survey courses as she can get. I loved Charles Murray's book "Real Education." He describes exactly the kind of education I want my daughter to have. We are doing our best to provide it with the resources we have available. I wish we could have planned a four year curriculum and stuck through it for all of highschool. But we haven't been so lucky. I take one year at a time. I consider all of the options available to us... co-ops, online courses, classes at home, college class schedules, extra-curriculars, etc. And we choose what's the best fit for us for this year. DD bounced around 7 schools from fifth through 9th grade. I could spend my time regretting decisions we made that gave her such a scattered education. Or I could appreciate her experiences for what they gave her and work with what we've got. If you are planning a highschool education for a gifted child, I highly recommend Elizabeth Wissner-Gross's booked 'What High Schools Don't Tell You' and 'What Colleges Don't Tell You'. Your goals may be very different than hers (she's focused on the ivy league), but it will give you lots of ideas for thinking outside the box and taking advantage of opportunities that are available. Best of luck. And stick around here for inspiration and wisdom. The ladies here are great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kareni Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 KJB, One thing you could consider are online AP classes. I know PA Homeschoolers offers a lot of them, and they are very challenging. In fact, some of the colleges that will not accept cc credits will accept good AP scores. Do you think that might be an option? http://www.pahomeschoolers.com/courses/index.html This was going to be my suggestion too. And there are also on line providers of courses other than AP classes that you might wish to consider. Your child would have the continuity of being able to continue classes even through a move. Regards, Kareni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJB Posted October 26, 2008 Author Share Posted October 26, 2008 Thanks for the link and idea. My plan is slowly coming together. I do have another question. How many years can you "do" high school? My dd is ready for high school level work and next year I would like to start her in high school level classes. She is furthest behind in math, but even there she'll start Algebra maybe as early as this spring. She's about half way through her Pre Algebra book now. She is really working about two years ahead across the board. I see no reason not to let her start high school officially. The "problem" is that I wonder if you can count classes on a high school transcript before you are high school age. In other words, can you be in high school, and collecting credits towards the high school transcript, for more than 4 years? I'm wondering if the last two years of possibly a 6 year "high school" course of study, she could just be collecting college credit through AP classes/exams through something like the website you provided or cc if we're living somewhere where that is an option. Thank you all for helping me think this through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharon in MD Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 I'm gathering from what you've written that she is not yet really at the high school age. I know that there are many proponents of starting high school early and starting college early. But, I think you and your dh must set aside a time to think and talk and pray. What are your goals for her? Is there a real advantage to completing, or even starting "high school" early, or finishing early? You can accomplish significantly advanced coursework and still not advance the grade level kwim? I have had the blessing of sitting at the feet of a really godly, knowledgeable homeschool mom....she has said to me....."This is not a race.....there is no prize for finishing early." That stuck a chord for me. Perhaps that will not have an application for you and your dd. But just stop and think what do you want to accomplish and what is the best for you, dh and dd. There are times when it is best to push ahead and finish early and there are times when that doesn't really help. It is very individual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJB Posted October 26, 2008 Author Share Posted October 26, 2008 I am sure I'll be back with more questions as I sort out a plan for next year and beyond. I appreciate the suggestions and book recommendations. We're going to pursue SAT/ACT testing for certain and I think we'll plan to begin high school officially in the fall. Continuity of education is a huge reason we started home schooling originally and I agree with everyone who pointed to that as an advantage. I always thought (dreamed, hoped, prayed) we'd be done moving by the time dd was old enough for high school, but to keep life interesting, we will be moving much more in the years to come. We may pursue the Talent Search programs, but we're overseas now and I'm not sure if it's worth the effort given that dd has almost outgrown their usefulness. Especially, now that I know she can take the ACT/SAT without their endorsement. We may end up at Johns Hopkins for a year in another two years, so I may look into their program since we might be living there. (Unless she drums up some major scholarship $$ to an ivy league school or some such, we have already bought her a prepaid Florida tuition education. I think she'll be headed to a university in Florida unless she wants to foot the bill herself.) I'm feeling a little less nerve wracked by reading all of your posts. Thanks very much to everyone for taking the time to offer suggestions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJB Posted October 26, 2008 Author Share Posted October 26, 2008 "catch up" too often causing dd's high school experience to be less than ideal. I want a rich deep education for my daughter and I'm pretty sure achieving that goal is beyond what I'm able to provide and is going to take outsourcing. DD is 12 and we just work at her level. I initially began thinking about ACT/SAT testing to get a real feel for where we are in terms of grade level. From there, I began to think about high school plans which led to my posts. It takes me a year after we move to feel kind of settled anywhere. It takes me that long to find out where the local grocery stores are and when I can get my car worked on. Now, I am going to need to find resources outside our home for my dd in potentially 4 different locations. As I posted before, I'd thought for a long time that we'd plod along until dd was high school age and then enroll her in an excellent high school. I went to a really good high school and I know regardless of classes we've done at home, she could find challenge and reward at an excellent high school. I really didn't want to do high school myself. Then, because I realized we'd have to move at least once during her high school years, I began to think we'd just do community college when we got to the point that I didn't feel I could meet her needs adequately. Now I know we'll be moving every year for at least three and possibly more years after next year and both of my possible plans are turned upside down. It's hard enough to find a new piano teacher when we move let alone find resources for an excellent high school experience. Anyway, thanks for your thoughts and help. It's just frustrating to not be able to have a plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outtamyshell Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 I think you are looking at is the same philosophical question we all face. Do we want to accelerate through highschool and move on to college sooner? Or do we want to dig deeper into the subject mattter while in the highschool years? If your child is ready for highschool math and science and language in middle school, there is nothing wong with jumping in and getting started. You aren't going to run out of learning opportunities in highschool. You will run out of time and money long before you run out of material to study. I've heard that highschool transcripts should only cover four years. So if your child skips 8th grade and starts right into highschool level work, then you can count that year on the high school transcript if they graduate four years later. But if you continue to the age-appropriate graduation date, then that year would drop off the transcript. That may require taking another science and math course to complete your highschool requirements. Our transcript actually includes 8th grade as a reference to include all highschool level courses, but I don't count those courses toward highschool credit. I am following the same format as the local public school for my transcript. I see nothing wrong with using highschool level work in middle school and college courses for highschool credit. But if you find yourself with a 16 year old that needs to go to college full-time, and she's ready, then that's an option you could exercise later. We didn't homeschool until 10th grade, and by the end of the year, I wanted to start highschool over again. There are so many great resources available, online and otherwise. I would love to take dd through the Great Books series. Of course, there is no time for that. We also haven't taken advantage of PA Homeschoolers. Their courses look great. But we decided for social reasons to take advantage of Classical Conversation seminars. I tried to talk her into starting highschool over again this year, but she said no. So I have to make my decisions based on our family circumstances and what best meets her needs. Keep plugging away and you'll find the right solution for your family! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lwilliams1922 Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 my dd is 12 as well. I had her take the SAT last year as a 7th grader. It gave me a good idea of where she is and some things we can do for the next year. I did sign her up for the johns hopkins CTY but the program cost is something we'll have to save a bit for. I think the bigest draw is 5 years of experience taking the tests. I'd like her to be in a position to get into schools as well as get offers for aid. I go back and forth on taking cc early. Today I'm thinking we may do science at the CC and writing on line. best of luck to to we're also military but DH just retired Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyL Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 I would be curious if the Florida PrePaid tuition program could be used for graduate school or would you pass it along to one of the other children if there was unused tuition? At the Washington schools if you have a lot of prior college credits they really push to get you out of the system in about 3 years. (so 18 year olds that have done CC will enroll but they will have to have a graduation plan right away.) For some kids they're not ready to commit to a major at 18. Of course, this isn't an issue for private schools, they're happy to have you stay the entire 4 years. I was thinking it would be great if you have a leftover year in the tuition plan to help you get a head start for graduate school, if allowed. Ours in WA HAS to be used over 4 years if you bought 4 years worth. In other words, you can't use it double fast if you are in college for less than 4 years. You CAN use ours for graduate school, but at only the undergrad amount per year. (so it cover only a portion of the tuition as grad school is more expensive) Lastly, I am taking a distance ed. college (think remedial!) math course at LSU--and I think it's a terrific value for the money. The books are several years old and are very reasonable. ($30 used with solution manual) You do a lot of homework and the teacher checks over everything. The test was tough, but fair. I am using it as a prerequisite for their other courses. They have a nice collection of courses.The cost for 3 semester credits is $250, still, I believe. They also offer high school courses, but not a HS diploma. LSU credit would be readily transferred I would think. The community college courses here charge about $150-$200 for the books alone for the courses with all the special homework sites. HS students can get free tuition but the cost of the books has been shocking. For High school students that want to take LSU college courses you need to take the ACT --they will look at the math and English portions and tell you which class you would be able to take. They are very helpful. www.is.lsu.edu I also have been fond of Indiana Univ. courses and they have certain areas they are very good in. However they have recently raised their prices and now charge an out of state fee for undergrad, but not high school courses. The high school diploma program is great, and they encourage you to mix in some of the undergrad courses. They said they don't have students saying the Indiana Univ. courses aren't accepted. HTH www.scs.indiana.edu Nancy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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