poppy Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 My 8 year old is struggling. I think Teaching Textbooks would be a good fit, but, she can't pass the exam (starts at grade 3). We used Math Mammoth to pretty much exactly the point she got to in 2nd grade. Then she shuts down. I'm mostly just reinforcing math facts with games at this point ..... like adding within 10. We play Shut the Box and watched Education Unboxed videos. I've heard Touch Math can help kids who can't memorize math facts. Would love to hear experiences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 It depends on the kid and how it is implemented as far as I can see. DS did Touch Math in kinder. It helped in some ways, confused him in others. Is math fact memorization the only issue? Or are there struggles with conceptual understanding and/or understanding and internalizing algorithms too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 When you say she couldn't pass the exam for starting TT3, what exactly were the areas she was struggling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted February 11, 2017 Author Share Posted February 11, 2017 When you say she couldn't pass the exam for starting TT3, what exactly were the areas she was struggling? No number sense and no arithmetic. She gets concepts like evens/ odds, half vs quarter, the difference between hundreds- tens- ones. But she has no idea how to figure out 52-37. She will use her fingers to figure out 5+7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Personally? I would look at the Ronit Bird books and e-books and see about running her through some of the lessons in those first, before trying another curriculum. They are designed for anyone with numeracy issues and are very well done. The e-books are easier to follow than the books but this is honestly a great resource. http://www.ronitbird.com/ The other choice from my perspective might be MUS if you really want a full blown math curriculum that could help her. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted February 12, 2017 Author Share Posted February 12, 2017 Personally? I would look at the Ronit Bird books and e-books and see about running her through some of the lessons in those first, before trying another curriculum. They are designed for anyone with numeracy issues and are very well done. The e-books are easier to follow than the books but this is honestly a great resource. http://www.ronitbird.com/ The other choice from my perspective might be MUS if you really want a full blown math curriculum that could help heri i did a search on Ronit Bird because in these threads, I'm aware that some of the people suggesting curriculum are also the curriculum writer or on the staff of the curriculum writer. Basically wondering, is this suggestion coming from Ronit Bird herself? And I found a lot of very positive post about Ms. Bird. (Who I can say with confidence is not the same person as OneStepAtATime :)) If anyone has a suggestion where to start, I'd appreciate it. The "Dots" ebook doesn't seem like enough, but the Dyscalculia book is nearly $50........... is "Dots" a portion of the toolkit? Is the whole toolkit worth getting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 i did a search on Ronit Bird because in these threads, I'm aware that some of the people suggesting curriculum are also the curriculum writer or on the staff of the curriculum writer. Basically wondering, is this suggestion coming from Ronit Bird herself? And I found a lot of very positive post about Ms. Bird. (Who I can say with confidence is not the same person as OneStepAtATime :)) If anyone has a suggestion where to start, I'd appreciate it. The "Dots" ebook doesn't seem like enough, but the Dyscalculia book is nearly $50........... is "Dots" a portion of the toolkit? Is the whole toolkit worth getting? Well no way to know for sure I guess but I am an American, living in Texas, and Ronit Bird is British and I believe lives in England. My daughter is dyscalculic and I have posted about her many times. Ronit Bird helped with her math struggles. Since my input may not be trustworthy right now I won't respond further but Heathermomster and OhElizabeth have both used Ronit Bird materials and can easily break it down for you and help you figure out what might be worth the money/effort. I suggest posting on the LC board with specific Ronit Bird questions. You should get some helpful responses there. Best wishes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 i did a search on Ronit Bird because in these threads, I'm aware that some of the people suggesting curriculum are also the curriculum writer or on the staff of the curriculum writer. Basically wondering, is this suggestion coming from Ronit Bird herself? And I found a lot of very positive post about Ms. Bird. (Who I can say with confidence is not the same person as OneStepAtATime :)) If anyone has a suggestion where to start, I'd appreciate it. The "Dots" ebook doesn't seem like enough, but the Dyscalculia book is nearly $50........... is "Dots" a portion of the toolkit? Is the whole toolkit worth getting? Sorry I misread your post. I thought you were saying that you really believed I was Ronit Bird. :) Which is kind of flattering since she is sooooooo much better at math than I am. LOL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted February 12, 2017 Author Share Posted February 12, 2017 You didn't misread!! I did a quick search on my phone and saw your name & Ronit Bird connected a couple times, which made me think "I've found you out!" Then, I did an actual search. And felt silly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 You didn't misread!! I did a quick search on my phone and saw your name & Ronit Bird connected a couple times, which made me think "I've found you out!" Then, I did an actual search. And felt silly. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetpea3829 Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Have you had her assessed for learning disabilities? Does she struggle in other areas aside from math? So at your daughter's age, I was using MUS to address her significant weaknesses in math (she is diagnosed with dyscalculia). She is 11 now and this year I switched her back to Singapore, Grade 2, to fill in some conceptual gaps that I felt MUS was leaving. MUS was fantastic at giving her the basics of procedural math. But she was not learning conceptual math and I could see that, going forward, that would be a major fault for her. One other thing that I have done with her since she was very young, is to work on her number sense and spatial weaknesses. So she has had A LOT of practice with counting forwards and backwards (especially backwards....so hard for her). We spent a lot of time reviewing place value. I give her additional critical thinking and logic work, in the hopes that it will shore up her weak reasoning. She really seems to have come a long way in many of these things. For the longest time, counting backwards was nearly impossible for her. As was ordering numbers. She has mastered those concepts now. I haven't found anything on the market that really addresses these specific weaknesses for kids like my DD. Curricula for younger kids do teach number order and counting, etc., but not for a 9, 10, 11 yr old. And not specifically targeting those areas. Neither do they cover large numbers such as numbers in the thousands. I've had to target those weaknesses on my own. But it does make a huge difference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 (edited) Have you had her assessed for learning disabilities? Does she struggle in other areas aside from math? So at your daughter's age, I was using MUS to address her significant weaknesses in math (she is diagnosed with dyscalculia). She is 11 now and this year I switched her back to Singapore, Grade 2, to fill in some conceptual gaps that I felt MUS was leaving. MUS was fantastic at giving her the basics of procedural math. But she was not learning conceptual math and I could see that, going forward, that would be a major fault for her. One other thing that I have done with her since she was very young, is to work on her number sense and spatial weaknesses. So she has had A LOT of practice with counting forwards and backwards (especially backwards....so hard for her). We spent a lot of time reviewing place value. I give her additional critical thinking and logic work, in the hopes that it will shore up her weak reasoning. She really seems to have come a long way in many of these things. For the longest time, counting backwards was nearly impossible for her. As was ordering numbers. She has mastered those concepts now. I haven't found anything on the market that really addresses these specific weaknesses for kids like my DD. Curricula for younger kids do teach number order and counting, etc., but not for a 9, 10, 11 yr old. And not specifically targeting those areas. Neither do they cover large numbers such as numbers in the thousands. I've had to target those weaknesses on my own. But it does make a huge difference. Yeah, my daughter has dyscalculia too. She also has dyslexia. With the dyslexia we had to go all the way back to super basic stuff that mostly is never covered in any sort of curriculum because people just sort of already have those basic skills or acquire them intuitively as they are exposed to the world. Dyscalculia turned out to be similar. DD was missing some basic, basic, critical pieces that were not taught in standard curriculum and she was not able to effectively intuit. Learning is not linear. It is organic. Some areas she could still get through without those pieces. Without those basic pieces, though, math was a struggle and she was just limping along, not really able to thrive. That's why I recommended Ronit Bird. Just like Barton is a great resource for a dyslexic to be explicitly taught those missing building blocks for reading, Ronit Bird created material to do the same thing for kids with missing pieces in math. Her stuff isn't as user friendly as Barton's but it is still really supremely helpful (I just wish she would reprint the books with larger font and with more white space. The text is pretty dense for my bad eyesight). ETA: It sounds like you have done a terrific job of trying to fill in those gaps Sweetpea! Edited February 13, 2017 by OneStepAtATime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted February 13, 2017 Author Share Posted February 13, 2017 (edited) My daughter is dyslexic , yes. Sounds like dyslexia and dyscalculia often go hand in hand . I went to iBooks to check out Ronit Bird and she has two free books so we are going to give those a shot to start . 10 card games and 10 dice / domino games. Edited February 13, 2017 by poppy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetpea3829 Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 I love Ronit Bird's stuff, but I wish she would go further and I wish her stuff was more user friendly, lol. So for example, my daughter does understand the relationship between the numeral and the quantity. But she does not intuitively understand the relationship between the quantities. Her spatial weaknesses and slower processing make it very difficult for her to understand number sequence. Add in poor reasoning and low critical thinking and it makes for a very difficult math experience. Interestingly, she is not dyslexic. But her dad is. She is actually a pretty good reader and am excellent speller. But then that reasoning piece kicks in and holds her back in that arena. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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