What to use btwn MM1 and BA3?

[hisforhomeschooling]

My son is doing MM1 and basically hates it. We are on page 91 of 1B and I think we are just stopping and doing the Star Wars 1st grade math workbook for the rest of the year. My older son is starting BA next year, I think, and is looking forward to it after reading the samples, but I am trying to decide what to have my 2nd son do to get ready for BA3 that is NOT Math Mammoth. I want him to be ready for BA3, and I think MM does a good job preparing, but we need math to not be a fight until then. Wish 2nd grade was out! 

 

Thanks!

[SilverMoon]

Math in Focus 2?

[Farrar]

MEP? Singapore? Do a year of Right Start? Do all of Miquon? Miquon prepared my kid who ended up liking Beast really well.

[MDL]

When do you want him to start? BA 2 is scheduled to start publishing. This summer, I think, for A.

 

 

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[hisforhomeschooling]

Math in Focus 2?

 

That's Singapore, right? I have heard mixed things about whether Singapore is a complete curriculum or not. I am looking for a sample. I need something that is completely different than Math Mammoth as far as looks go so he will give it a chance. 

 

MEP? Singapore? Do a year of Right Start? Do all of Miquon? Miquon prepared my kid who ended up liking Beast really well.

 

Out of those, which is fun but also open and go? I need it to be fewer problems and more color than MM, but not ten billion manipulatives and super teacher-intensive. Just brought home our first daughter from China and looking to simplify where we can for the rest of this year and for next year. I know the transition to 4 kids is partly why he is fighting me on everything right now. He doesn't transition well in general, and this is a huge transition for all of us. 

 

When do you want him to start? BA 2 is scheduled to start publishing. This summer, I think, for A.

 

 

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September. I looked at the schedule and am worried we will go through it faster than it is ready. 

 

Thanks for the thoughts and advice, everyone!

[hisforhomeschooling]

I am considering Bob Jones because it is not a lot of problems and is very colorful. We did it for K and it was way too much for me, but they learned a TON. But I am a more experienced homeschooler now then I was then, and think I could cut back on the "stuff" of Bob Jones without losing the skills. But when I look at Bob Jones for 2nd compared to ABEKA for 2nd, ABEKA seems way harder. So I am worried that BJ isn't as thorough and wouldn't be a good stepping stone from MM1 to BA3. Thoughts?

[Farrar]

That's Singapore, right? I have heard mixed things about whether Singapore is a complete curriculum or not. I am looking for a sample. I need something that is completely different than Math Mammoth as far as looks go so he will give it a chance. 

 

 

Out of those, which is fun but also open and go? I need it to be fewer problems and more color than MM, but not ten billion manipulatives and super teacher-intensive. Just brought home our first daughter from China and looking to simplify where we can for the rest of this year and for next year. I know the transition to 4 kids is partly why he is fighting me on everything right now. He doesn't transition well in general, and this is a huge transition for all of us. 

 

 

September. I looked at the schedule and am worried we will go through it faster than it is ready. 

 

Thanks for the thoughts and advice, everyone!

 

Math in Focus is the American version of one of the two approved Singapore math programs. Singapore Primary Math is the other. They're pretty similar at their core, but pretty different in their presentation and various components. More homeschoolers use Primary Math, but it just depends on what you want.

 

Let me be honest... You kid just ended up hating the most open and go program. Most early math programs are teacher intensive for a reason. Most second graders won't be picking up math on their own. Beast was certainly not a very hands off program when we did it.

 

Of course, some programs have a million parts or require more of your time than others in order to work. So, not Right Start (it's all manipulatives), probably not MUS (also very manipulative based with lots of parts). I found Miquon to be super easy to use, but most people find it more teacher intensive and at the very least there's a learning curve with it, so probably not that.

 

MEP is very straightforward and has great lesson plans that, in the early years, you can sort of do or not depending on the kid. That might suit you. And it's free (once you print it). Singapore Primary Math or Math in Focus can be relatively open and go as well. CLE might be another option - many people find it very open and go and simple. On the other hand, it's not considered as conceptual and for a mathy kid who's going to do Beast next, it might be doing him a disservice (though increasing your family so much means everyone has to compromise through the adjustment sometimes). Ditto Saxon - it's more open and go, but it's also repetitive and drill based, which is the exact opposite of Beast, so I'm not sure it would prepare him very well.

 

Don't count on Beast to be ready. They will likely not stick to the schedule 100%. Just treat it as a bonus if you manage to use parts of it then move into the 3rd grade books when he's ready.

[hisforhomeschooling]

Math in Focus is the American version of one of the two approved Singapore math programs. Singapore Primary Math is the other. They're pretty similar at their core, but pretty different in their presentation and various components. More homeschoolers use Primary Math, but it just depends on what you want.

 

Let me be honest... You kid just ended up hating the most open and go program. Most early math programs are teacher intensive for a reason. Most second graders won't be picking up math on their own. Beast was certainly not a very hands off program when we did it.

 

Of course, some programs have a million parts or require more of your time than others in order to work. So, not Right Start (it's all manipulatives), probably not MUS (also very manipulative based with lots of parts). I found Miquon to be super easy to use, but most people find it more teacher intensive and at the very least there's a learning curve with it, so probably not that.

 

MEP is very straightforward and has great lesson plans that, in the early years, you can sort of do or not depending on the kid. That might suit you. And it's free (once you print it). Singapore Primary Math or Math in Focus can be relatively open and go as well. CLE might be another option - many people find it very open and go and simple. On the other hand, it's not considered as conceptual and for a mathy kid who's going to do Beast next, it might be doing him a disservice (though increasing your family so much means everyone has to compromise through the adjustment sometimes). Ditto Saxon - it's more open and go, but it's also repetitive and drill based, which is the exact opposite of Beast, so I'm not sure it would prepare him very well.

 

Don't count on Beast to be ready. They will likely not stick to the schedule 100%. Just treat it as a bonus if you manage to use parts of it then move into the 3rd grade books when he's ready.

 

Absolutely appreciate the gentle honesty! Thanks! 

 

Yeah, I have 2 mathy kids, and MM works great for us because they are both fluent readers and I can sit with them but they do it on their own, asking for help when they need it. I think maybe he wants more attention and being more hands-on would be good for him. So I am resigned to more teacher-intensive than MM for sure. And thanks for mentioning that about BA. Are there a lot of manipulatives, or is it teacher-intensive because it is just intense generally speaking? Like I said, I am sitting with them while they are schooling, and just switching my attention to whichever kid needs it at the moment. I don't mind things being teacher-intensive, but I need a balance because of the 2yo and 3yo being extremely needy. And still figuring out the 2yo (she has only been home 2 weeks). And she mouths everything, so manipulatives freak me out right now. I think CLE would be the opposite of what we need based on what you said. Someone gifted us Saxon and I looked at it last night, but it is exactly what you said. it actually doesn't seem very challenging, and I think he would get bored and hate it, too. I will look into MEP and Singapore/MIF. Thanks!

[Farrar]

Absolutely appreciate the gentle honesty! Thanks! 

 

Yeah, I have 2 mathy kids, and MM works great for us because they are both fluent readers and I can sit with them but they do it on their own, asking for help when they need it. I think maybe he wants more attention and being more hands-on would be good for him. So I am resigned to more teacher-intensive than MM for sure. And thanks for mentioning that about BA. Are there a lot of manipulatives, or is it teacher-intensive because it is just intense generally speaking? Like I said, I am sitting with them while they are schooling, and just switching my attention to whichever kid needs it at the moment. I don't mind things being teacher-intensive, but I need a balance because of the 2yo and 3yo being extremely needy. And still figuring out the 2yo (she has only been home 2 weeks). And she mouths everything, so manipulatives freak me out right now. I think CLE would be the opposite of what we need based on what you said. Someone gifted us Saxon and I looked at it last night, but it is exactly what you said. it actually doesn't seem very challenging, and I think he would get bored and hate it, too. I will look into MEP and Singapore/MIF. Thanks!

 

I think MEP and the Singapore maths can potentially work like that more or less... if you have a kid who is okay with being independent for that age (which is to say, with you right there, but not walking them through everything all the time) and who catches on to math quickly.

 

Beast was teacher intensive for us because of the intensity of the program and the difficulty of the problems. Zero manipulatives. I've only heard of a few people using it very independently and in those cases, I have to admit I kinda questioned the person telling the tale because they were like, Beast is so simple, my kid just does a whole lesson in a couple of days, la la la. Which... some of this math will make *you* think in the third grade book. It's not stuff typically taught to kids this age. That said, if the kids read independently, they can read the comic book part solo and there are always easy lead in problems in every section of the practice book. It's just that some of the concepts and some of the problems are genuinely difficult - they're purposefully meant to be problems that kids really sit with for a long time. And most kids will need someone to walk them through the solution for some of them or to work some of them together.

 

I admit I do have an obsession with a particular manipulative. Cuisenaire rods are soooo good. But if you're afraid of having small things around at the moment, have you seen the We Want To Know apps if you have a tablet? They make Dragonbox, which is amazing, but also a younger kid app that came out too late for us, but which is based on the Cuisenaire rods.

[Cake and Pi]

I vote you check out MEP.  It's free online, so you can read through it, print a few pages, let your kid try it out, and see if it fits your needs.  It it's not a good fit you can move on without any major losses.  I'm using it with my DS#3 with the intention of starting him in BA3 as whenever he's eventually ready for it, and I intend on cycling back to the BA2 books as they're released.

 

I agree about the BA production schedule.  They almost always run at least month behind what they plan for each book.  They average about 5 months per book, but have taken 8+ months on occasion.  That said, I imagine the 2nd grade set could potentially stay on schedule just because it'll be easier concepts and so (maybe?) less work for them to create.  As you move up through the grades, the solution manuals get thicker and thicker.  

 

How independent BA is will depend on the kid, their age, what level you have them working in, and their previous math experience.  My DS#1 did BA 3 independently (except for me reading the guide to him) and very quickly (one month per book), buuuut, he'd already done RS A-E.  Now in BA 5, he's requiring a lot more attention from me.  I still read the guide to him and we do the problems in the guide together.  Then when he's doing the practice pages, every time he hits a page with an example problem at the top, I work the example on the board with him, modeling the process and proper written work (an area in which he struggles because of dysgraphia).  We often end up attacking the stared and double stared problems as a team now.  The program goes way beyond what they need to know for grade level math.  Near the end of 5B we figured out how many trailing zeros there are in 500! (500 factorial), which I'd never seen before.  Heck, I'd never even considered its existence as a problem to be solved, and I've been up through diff equations and linear algebra in college. 

[SeaConquest]

MM1 bombed for my mathy kid. Way too many problems, and I only had him doing half! We did Singapore IP and CWP only for 2nd, and switched to BA for 3rd.