Zelda Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 This is what I believe as well. I absolutely believe that healthcare is a right. I agree. In my opinion, those who don't feel this way have never faced serious health issues themselves that they couldn't afford to treat or have never had anyone close to them who has experienced them. Then you would be VERY VERY wrong on that point. Very. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Then you would be VERY VERY wrong on that point. Very. So you or a very close family member has hundreds of thousands in medical bills that you can't pay, and now you're having a difficult time finding a doctor who will even see you for a routine visit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aubrey Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I see it like education. Is it a RIGHT? No. But society is better for *everyone* when we all have a basic education. Am I impressed w/ the job gov't is doing of handling education? No. But I know that no matter what happens to me (whether or not I'm able to hs), my dc will have some semblence of a hs education. As far as healthcare, we can't say that it's a RIGHT, either. Because, yeah, then that would extend to food, housing, etc. (But I'd argue that for the poor, there are food stamps, housing assistance, etc. whereas there is not the equivalent of healthcare for the poor unless you happen to be pg or under 18.) Think about it, though. If you get a URI & need antibiotics, w/ ins, you'll pay maybe $20 copay at the dr & say $4 for meds at WM. If you've got ins, chances are, you can take a sick day if you need to. Maybe 2. Not always, but generally. Otoh, w/out ins, that dr visit is at least $70. If you have to miss a day of work, you can double or triple that dr cost. Chances are, you can't afford even the $70, so you wait. You wait until you are absolutely sure that you will die w/out antibiotics, kwim? By that time, the $4 meds might not be enough. By that time, 10 of your friends & coworkers are sick. They're paying copays & missing work, etc. And here's the thing. It's not really a responsibility issue--not everyone w/out ins is wanting to live off the gov't or something. If your employer doesn't offer ins, it's astronomically expensive to buy on your own. Sometimes that's true even if your employer *does* offer ins. So my point was (sorry) that if we want to be a first-world country & if that means providing free, quality education for all children who live here, how on earth can we not see healthcare the same way? Maybe we need to start back at the beginning. What *would* a good gov't provide? What is their responsibility? To build roads? Maybe that is a good function because it requires our cooperation. We can't very well all build our own piece of the road. To maintain the military, police, firefighters? Again, we can't really ea hire private security forces. It makes more sense to work together, even though many of us live in places that are unlikely to be robbed or attacked. We're *all* safer when we defend ourselves together. Healthcare is like that. It makes more sense when we cooperate. For everyone. Huh. I wasn't sure how I felt about universal healthcare. LOL I guess now I know. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aubrey Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 People have never survived solely on their own. There has always been reliance on other community members, tribal members, etc. I believe education is a right in this country. I believe that being safe in our communities is a right. Since not everyone can homeschool, in many instances, that service must be provided by someone else. In the instance of safety, we have those services provided by policeman and firemen. Even though those services are provided by others, they're still rights of members of a society. Oh, goodness. I should have just read your post! :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelda Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 You know, I had a very long response to this typed up and when I went to submit, my mouse battery died. I'm glad it did because my response was too personal and I don't owe you any explanations. Please feel free to think that I have no idea about life threatening chronic illnesses and debt related to medical costs. I'm just sitting in my ivory palace keeping all the goodies to myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aubrey Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Yeah, I know that people who smoke and get lung cancer made their own decisions. But I also don't agree with simply turning a cold shoulder on them and saying, "Too bad for you." Exactly. It's not always about the sick person. Sometimes it's about *our* own humanity. MAYBE there are some who deserve to be left in the streets to die? But I don't want to be the one who makes the choice to leave them there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 You know, I had a very long response to this typed up and when I went to submit, my mouse battery died. I'm glad it did because my response was too personal and I don't owe you any explanations. Please feel free to think that I have no idea about life threatening chronic illnesses and debt related to medical costs. I'm just sitting in my ivory palace keeping all the goodies to myself. I'm truly sorry that you or someone close to you has had problems. However, I honestly don't understand how someone who has "been there" can think it's okay for people who can't afford to pay for healthcare to be left to suffer and/or die. I don't expect an explanation from you, but I don't understand it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelda Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I'm truly sorry that you or someone close to you has had problems. However, I honestly don't understand how someone who has "been there" can think it's okay for people who can't afford to pay for healthcare to be left to suffer and/or die. I don't expect an explanation from you, but I don't understand it. This is getting worse. I have never said that they should be left to die. I said that it wasn't a right but it was a responsibility. And it isn't "has had", I wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawn of ns Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Healthcare is like that. It makes more sense when we cooperate. For everyone. Huh. I wasn't sure how I felt about universal healthcare. LOL I guess now I know. :lol: I think you made a key point though. A lot of talk about healthcare gets framed in economics terms what what about in terms of our humanity? What about in terms of our responsibility for our neighbours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenKitty Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 No way is healthcare a right! Even basic healthcare! :iagree: absolutely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6packofun Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I want to live in a country where there is a bottom line guarantee that I have food, shelter, and adequate medical care were I in a situation where I couldn't get it elsewhere. I think that only the government can guarantee that. That doesn't mean that I think they are always the most efficient at it, but the government is the only entity that can provide that guarantee. Here is where I get curious. What situations are you referring to where you could not provide food, shelter and medical care for yourself and is the "guarantee" you want regardless of any effort or work that you put into finding those things for yourself? Or are you just wanting to expand the welfare system to include more help for people to pay their mortgages, etc.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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