bfw0729 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 I am slowly transitioning from SWR to Spalding. I have talked to the company a few times looking for some answers. I recently purchased and read through WRTR (4th edition). I'm still trying to fully understand the text - my goal is to read it at least two more times through. To be completely honest, I don't find their company to be "user-friendly" in terms of getting access to information about the program. In order for me to get my questions answered, I need to email my questions to the phone person/receptionist and she then asks one of the trainers the questions and takes down the answers. That receptionist then emails me back. What I really need is just to talk to someone on the phone that really knows the program. Anyway, I haven't purchased all of the items yet - still transitioning - and wanted to know your thoughts about my approach so far. On Monday, I dictate 20 words and the children write sentences on the first 10 words. On Tuesday, I quiz them on the first ten words (remediate any misspellings) and they write sentences on the second 10 words. On Wednesday, I quiz them on the second 10 words then on the first 10 words and remediate if necessary. On Thursday, I quiz all 20 randomly. Right now my 3rd graders are on list M and my 2nd grader is on list K. Do we continue to work on Spalding until they reach the end, list Z? If we work at a good pace, could we complete the book by the end of 4th grade? Does this mean that we are done with Spalding and only need to review? Also, I haven't moved from 20 words to 30 words a week - we are starting that this week (at least hoping to...). At 30 a week, we would reach list z in no time. We could potentially finish by mid 4th grade. What is Spalding's goal? If we followed Spalding and her recommendations, which grade should we complete all the list words in WRTR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MouseBandit Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 I am sure Elle will respond soon - she knows all things Spalding! I am very curious, though, what prompted your switch from SWR to WRTR? :-) MouseBandit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 I am slowly transitioning from SWR to Spalding. I have talked to the company a few times looking for some answers. I recently purchased and read through WRTR (4th edition). I'm still trying to fully understand the text - my goal is to read it at least two more times through. To be completely honest, I don't find their company to be "user-friendly" in terms of getting access to information about the program. In order for me to get my questions answered, I need to email my questions to the phone person/receptionist and she then asks one of the trainers the questions and takes down the answers. That receptionist then emails me back. What I really need is just to talk to someone on the phone that really knows the program. Anyway, I haven't purchased all of the items yet - still transitioning - and wanted to know your thoughts about my approach so far. On Monday, I dictate 20 words and the children write sentences on the first 10 words. On Tuesday, I quiz them on the first ten words (remediate any misspellings) and they write sentences on the second 10 words. On Wednesday, I quiz them on the second 10 words then on the first 10 words and remediate if necessary. On Thursday, I quiz all 20 randomly. Right now my 3rd graders are on list M and my 2nd grader is on list K. Do we continue to work on Spalding until they reach the end, list Z? If we work at a good pace, could we complete the book by the end of 4th grade? Does this mean that we are done with Spalding and only need to review? Also, I haven't moved from 20 words to 30 words a week - we are starting that this week (at least hoping to...). At 30 a week, we would reach list z in no time. We could potentially finish by mid 4th grade. What is Spalding's goal? If we followed Spalding and her recommendations, which grade should we complete all the list words in WRTR? No. Why are you having them write sentences?? P. 141 says that a separate period should be scheduled for this. It is not part of the spelling lesson. Assuming they know all 70 phonograms, you will do oral and written drills daily (not necessarily at the same time that you're teaching the spelling words). Your older dc will keep a spelling notebook.(chapter 4, especially pp. 127, 128), complete with rule pages. Your 2nd grader does not, although he may write the words in a spelling notebook; he just doesn't write the rule pages. 30 words a week are recommended. It is also recommended that children do Spalding at least twice (once with writing the rule pages), but you might not need to do that. Chapter 6--be sure to read it multiple times--includes a testimonial from a teacher who had a good schedule for teaching the spelling words. P. 264 says that third=graders should learn the words at least to Section X. In fact, Chapter 6 is full of information. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 And really, all you need is the manual (Spalding is the method; WRTR is the manual) and a set of Spalding phonogram cards (which are slightly different from SWR's). You do NOT need the teacher guides. You could use the McCall-Crabbs books if you want to, but they are not necessary (if I were teaching in a classroom, I would use them, because it would help me be more sure of what the children are learning; when it's just your own, it's much easier to know). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfw0729 Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 Thank you for responding. I wanted to quickly respond to Ellie's comments. On page 126, WRTR mentions that the younger students should write the words from Sections A-H on separate sheets of paper. These words are again dictated, but this time the child writes them in his/her notebook? Why twice? Reinforcement because the child is just starting to learn to write? Also, I have not dictated the first 7 notebook pages, yet. We had done this with SWR, although differently, and I'm trying to approach this delicately because I have one child who likely will fight me on this one...I really like how WRTR lays out the beginning notebook pages right from the start. My question is, do we fill in the columns as I dictate the words from the List? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfw0729 Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 Ellie, you asked why I have the children write sentences. What other way do you "work on" the first 10 ten words after dictating 30 words? And so on for the remainder of the week when learning the other words. Also, when dictating the words, do you emphasize using the fingers to represent the phonograms? I wonder if there is a good youtube video of dictating using the Spalding method. There are plenty of LOE or SWR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfw0729 Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) I am sure Elle will respond soon - she knows all things Spalding! I am very curious, though, what prompted your switch from SWR to WRTR? :-) MouseBandit I just didn't like the flow of SWR. I read the entire book a couple of times casually and then again for teaching. After reading WRTR, I just feel the Spalding approach is more straightforward. I also like that the rule numbers are included with the dictated words, at least for the ones that have a rule. I'm still trying to figure it out, but knowing all I need is this book and the new phonograms, I'm set! Edited February 1, 2016 by bfw0729 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfw0729 Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 And really, all you need is the manual (Spalding is the method; WRTR is the manual) and a set of Spalding phonogram cards (which are slightly different from SWR's). You do NOT need the teacher guides. You could use the McCall-Crabbs books if you want to, but they are not necessary (if I were teaching in a classroom, I would use them, because it would help me be more sure of what the children are learning; when it's just your own, it's much easier to know). I do have the Mcall Crabbs books. I bought them with the SWR program. The 3rd graders do one or two of them per week. I have been using them since the start of the school year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Ellie, you asked why I have the children write sentences. What other way do you "work on" the first 10 ten words after dictating 30 words? And so on for the remainder of the week when learning the other words. Also, when dictating the words, do you emphasize using the fingers to represent the phonograms? I wonder if there is a good youtube video of dictating using the Spalding method. There are plenty of LOE or SWR. Writing a sentence is not working on the words. It involves punctuation and capitalization, and putting things together with subjects and verbs. You do that another time of the day. Did you read chapter 6 yet? :-) Especially pp. 260-261. I didn't always use my fingers, but it really isn't all that tricky. There are videos available to purchase on the Spalding web site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfw0729 Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 Writing a sentence is not working on the words. It involves punctuation and capitalization, and putting things together with subjects and verbs. You do that another time of the day. Did you read chapter 6 yet? :-) Especially pp. 260-261. I didn't always use my fingers, but it really isn't all that tricky. There are videos available to purchase on the Spalding web site. I'm looking at pages 260-261 right now. Monday: Sounding out and writing thirty new words, then reread the first 10 words. Tuesday: "On Tuesday the children were given a twenty-word test, ten review words and the ten they had studied. On Tuesday, the children studied and sounded the second column of ten." My understanding of this is... study and review the second ten words and test those 10 ten along with the first ten words they had studied from the day before? Wednesday: Test the first and second ten words. There is no mention about the third set of ten words. Do you study and review the third set of ten words? Friday: Thursday is not mentioned. On Friday, you test all thirty words. I would like to include composition with the 30 words learned that week. Can this be done as soon as the spelling lesson is "over"? For example, using all thirty words on Friday and writing a short story after they had taken their test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfw0729 Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) About the phonograms - when do you practice reading and writing the phonograms? Do you suggest before or after their spelling lesson? Presently, I am picking phonograms that are related to the words we're studying that week - anywhere between 12-20 phonograms. We work on them three times a week. About the rules - do you discuss the rules only if/when it applies to the word? I ask this because SWR has preliminary work, which is to be done before dictating the words. Edited February 1, 2016 by bfw0729 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 I'm looking at pages 260-261 right now. Monday: Sounding out and writing thirty new words, then reread the first 10 words. Tuesday: "On Tuesday the children were given a twenty-word test, ten review words and the ten they had studied. On Tuesday, the children studied and sounded the second column of ten." My understanding of this is... study and review the second ten words and test those 10 ten along with the first ten words they had studied from the day before? Wednesday: Test the first and second ten words. There is no mention about the third set of ten words. Do you study and review the third set of ten words? Friday: Thursday is not mentioned. On Friday, you test all thirty words. I would like to include composition with the 30 words learned that week. Can this be done as soon as the spelling lesson is "over"? For example, using all thirty words on Friday and writing a short story after they had taken their test. You can do it the same day as the spelling words are introduced; you just don't make it part of the spelling lesson that day. IOW, in the morning you could do spelling; in the afternoon they could write a short story with the words they studied earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 About the phonograms - when do you practice reading and writing the phonograms? Do you suggest before or after their spelling lesson? Presently, I am picking phonograms that are related to the words we're studying that week - anywhere between 12-20 phonograms. We work on them three times a week. About the rules - do you discuss the rules only if/when it applies to the word? I ask this because SWR has preliminary work, which is to be done before dictating the words. Do it any time you want. Although Spalding doesn't talk about "practicing reading and writing the phonograms." There are daily oral and written drills; you can do those any time you want, as well. But you practice all the phonograms, not just the ones that are being used at that specific time. Chapters 4 and 5 cover the rules and how to teach them. In general, yes, you discuss the rules when they apply to specific words. P. 132: "A spelling rule (pages 118-121) is taught when a word illustrates it. In this way the children come to understand a rule and use it, instead of having a mere parroted memorizing of it--an important difference." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfw0729 Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 You can do it the same day as the spelling words are introduced; you just don't make it part of the spelling lesson that day. IOW, in the morning you could do spelling; in the afternoon they could write a short story with the words they studied earlier. I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions. I find it a little difficult getting in touch with the company to help me out. Understandably, they are pushing the 6th edition book with the teacher's guide. They said the updated version includes teaching the meanings of the words. No thanks, if I can get it done reasonably well with the 4th edition. Lastly, do I study the third set of words on Wednesday? The book doesn't state it clearly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions. I find it a little difficult getting in touch with the company to help me out. Understandably, they are pushing the 6th edition book with the teacher's guide. They said the updated version includes teaching the meanings of the words. No thanks, if I can get it done reasonably well with the 4th edition. Lastly, do I study the third set of words on Wednesday? The book doesn't state it clearly. Oh, you don't need to talk to SEI. There used to be a forum. I haven't checked it out in a long time so I don't know if it's still there or not. The fifth and sixth editions have helpful things such as an alphabetical list of the words, but I still love the fourth edition. SEI sent me copies of the first teacher guides to review and to give feedback from a homeschooler's POV. They like the way I defend and explain Spalding. :-) I have thought about writing TPTB and implore them to reprint the fourth edition... You can do whatever you want. Spalding is meant to prescriptive, in the sense that the teacher makes some decisions on her own based on the needs of her students (although of course she would follow the Method faithfully). Yes, if you like the way the teacher in chapter 6 did it, then the third column of words would be reviewed on Wednesday. Thursday there would be a test on all 30 words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carriede Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Here's another thread with Spalding discussions. Hope it's helpful and not just more confusing. ;) http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/218515-another-spalding-review/ And one more nugget from another thread: My dd, who is doing WRTR 1st grade, spends about 5 minutes on oral and 5 minutes on written phonogram review. (We use Anki for that though.) About 10 minutes on her spelling notebook--three days a week. That is all the spelling and handwriting we do (I am not doing the spelling tests/assessments for 1st). The writing lesson, which is the part of Spalding/WRTR with most of the explanations, takes another twenty minutes. She reads aloud for about 15 minutes a day. So 45-55 minutes a day for all language arts. Each of those things took twice as long for the first 3 weeks! From <http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/280943-the-wrtr-and-spell-to-write-and-read/?hl=spalding&do=findComment&comment=2808271> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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