OrganicMom Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I shelved WWE2 months and months ago. My daughter (9 years old 3rd grade) would hit a wall every time when it came to summarizing/giving main points in story... even when helping her a little... she is a perfectionist and it produced HIGH volumes of tears and panic... I don't know how to help her past this... this morning i had an idea though to bring it back in, but this time, actually give her the answers, with us working far closer together than we have in the past.... part of the idea was to go through the whole level this way, even if that means we have to re-do the level... she has NO problem taking a whole paragraph with dictation though... and she can copy paragraphs.... but it is just the other exercises.... does anyone have any advice in HOW i can do my idea or REALLY even telling me another way i can approach it using other tools, or just our daily readings in other subjects? I also need hand-holding as you can tell.... :) I also am VERY limited on time right now, so i'm busting this out quickly and will also respond briefly as well. here's to trying it another way instead of avoiding this skill all together for a few years! ha! PS i currently have on hand killgallon, hake, caps fables, the arrows, other copywork resources, WWE text, as well as WWE level 3, and level 1, and other LA resources... just incase i can utilize these too. As of right now we have only been doing copywork and HAke grammar 4 lessons, with thoughts of adding in killgallon, until i thought of adding back in WWE2 differently... we have thoughts of her joining CC Essentials in the fall, her 4th grade year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I have two kids who are perfectionist, but not to the level that you are dealing with. I do know how difficult it can be...the screaming rage is really something to behold. I am so tempted to tell you to ditch it...but I can't. I think that narration is a very important skill that comes into play as they get older and have to write papers etc. I also think that anyone who is dealing with perfectionism needs to learn coping skills. So, you have two important skills coming into play here. Can you talk about it, call it what it is? I think I would be having lots of discussion like 'That strong feeling you have inside when you make a mistake or can't get something exactly right, it has a name. It's called perfectionism and sometimes it can be helpful, but sometimes it is not your friend. We need to find ways for you to use it to it when it is helpful and ignore it when it is not." There are a couple books on helping kids with perfectionism and you might want to check them out. I can't make a specific suggestion, I am sorry for that. Some coping skills I have used with my sons is talking about what is important and what is not. Getting a narration perfect is not important. It is not worth getting upset. We have talked about breathing through the frustration, walking it off, learning about cues from his body before things get to a crisis etc. I also did a fair amount of normalizing feelings of frustration. My older boy is very used to things coming very easily. So, when something was a challenge he just didn't have the skills to deal with the frustration. I would talk about how those feelings are normal, that you need to work through it and no rip up your work etc. As my older son approached middle school age it could be daily 'pep talk' sessions about how to cope. Really, coping skills, coping skills, coping skills is my motto. And now that he is in high school he is So Much better, so I do think it was helpful. I started with my younger boy much earlier b/c I knew what I was dealing with and it is much better with him eta: did you use WWE1? The narration is more like "tell me two things" so you can't really get it wrong. That might be a better place to start. Or what about using that tact? Just say "tell me three things you remember about what you read". Maybe try that for a year with WWE2 and then move on next year to WWE3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganicMom Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 Love your idea for yalking about the feelings more in the way that you described. We have talked, bit putting a name to it I think will be empowering and about how it can be your friend or ne against you. I'm on my phone, so forgive typos, etc. We did WWE 1, and honestly I remember us maybe even having to put it aside for a time too... So you think for now I can still use the WWE examples and samples, but stay at the steps of yell me three things that happened instead of what they ask...dont have it in front of me... ? Iguess since the current WWE books stages are not alligning with her development, it is making me scratch my head to see what I can do yo bridge the gap... Maybe she will take a leap btwn WWE 2 and WWE 3....? I think maybe I need yo familiarize myself with the stages of learning how to narrate and summarize...it was also a very big weakness for me too...thus the difficulty in breaking down how to help her. Thanks for your reply! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganicMom Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 So, maybe I can do what Susan says to do when it comes to skills if something is difficult, make it fat simpler, bit increase the volume of it...so we can maybe bring this skill back to the three things, or something similar, but instead of once or twice a week, do it in different subjects at least once a day...? I'm still open to any other thoughts or opinions, also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jens2sons Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 What I do is write down what ds tells me (his narration) on the whiteboard, correcting his grammar and sentence structure as we go. Then I have him copy it off the whiteboard on to his WWE page. Since I have started doing the narrations this way, ds has had an attitude change for the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByGrace3 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Well, we were in that same situation when dd was in 2nd grade -- WWE 2. Tears and tragedy every time. I did drop it, and really don't regret it. My ds is using WWE 2 with no problem. It works for him. It didn't for her. Writing was such a sore spot with dd after WWE that we had to regroup. I did a year of Brave writer to reignite an interest of writing, and then we did CAP Fable. Narrations via Brave Writer and then CAP were much gentler for my dd. I believe in WWE, and wish it would have worked for her. But the tears and relationship being ruined were not worth it. If you can tweak it so its not stressful, great, if you can't-- move on. Narrations are still important, but can be learned other ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamamindy Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 We had a similar problem. My daughter is also a perfectionist. So I am. It's painful. We dropped it and just used the TB instead. Unless you really want it, I wouldn't run out and buy it just yet. Sounds like you've listened to SWB's lectures, and that's the most important info in the book IMO. So, for the rest of the year we chose copywork/dictation from whatever we were reading, and also did narrations from what we were reading. For me, I had to really RELAX. My DD felt like she was being tested with those scripted questions and specific narrations. That is an anxiety producing situation for a perfectionist. Summary style narrations are a skill that require a lot of time to develop. (Like you mentioned above - it's probably hard for YOU to do it. It is for me, especially if I'm not engaged with the material.) I think SWB herself would tell you to drop it (for the time being) because if it makes your DD (or you!) cry, then it's just not the right fit. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamamindy Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 ..snip.. here's to trying it another way instead of avoiding this skill all together for a few years! ha! PS i currently have on hand killgallon, hake, caps fables, the arrows, other copywork resources, WWE text, as well as WWE level 3, and level 1, and other LA resources... just incase i can utilize these too. As of right now we have only been doing copywork and HAke grammar 4 lessons, with thoughts of adding in killgallon, until i thought of adding back in WWE2 differently... we have thoughts of her joining CC Essentials in the fall, her 4th grade year. I think what you're doing right now is great. If it were me, I would just add in narrations from whatever else you are reading, and have her copy part of her narration. That would be a good start. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanikit Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 My DD (2nd grade) is doing WWE2 - I do what is essentially outlining with her now in SOTW3 and for that I do handhold very much - I just read a paragraph and then ask her to tell me in one sentence what the paragraph was about - if she cannot I will ask a question that brings out the main point and will write the key words for her. Can she answer the questions that are given in the early lessons that bring up the main points in the story? If she can, perhaps you could write down her answers to these and give them to her so she can read them (even initially only the ones that are relevant to the summary) as she narrates and then teach her how to formulate multiple answers into only one or two sentences (or whatever is required). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganicMom Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 I feel so much better after posting today and getting responses. Deep exhales here. Sound judgment and advice. Love bravewriter, love WWE, love keeping it simple though too. Side question, do you think a student that we have described could do well in an IEW class? (cc essentials). I have no experience with IEW and have stayed fat away until now. I'm sure it is hard to know for sure how it will fit a student...but from what you guys have read, would it also hold a chance to produce overwhelm, or his approach serve better, or just a shot in the dark. Forgive me if this is not clear as I'm on the go still... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganicMom Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 Thank you thank you all who posted!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganicMom Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 You know, she answers the questions correct almost every time in simple yet pretty sentences, so maybe that is just it she needs to see the answers to the other questions to bring it together.... Maybe that step is it... The place where she gets lost... I'm rereading again what each person has said and it is such a help. I have tools, and the freedom to let it go, too!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitterpatter Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I don't know whether I'll have suggestions, but I do wonder very specifically what she's having a hard time with? If it's that the sentences are not as detailed and pretty as the samples in the book, could you just write down what she says on scrap paper or a white board and then go back with her to pretty them up? (Remember, a learned adult has written the samples.) Maybe say that you really like such and such part. Let's add another detail to make it even better. Or, what's an even fancier adjective/word we could use here (what would Fancy Nancy say)? If she produces three simple sentences, maybe work on really prettying up just one of them right now. (Of course, you would want to correct grammatical errors too, but maybe just fix those without fuss.) You know, she answers the questions correct almost every time in simple yet pretty sentences, so maybe that is just it she needs to see the answers to the other questions to bring it together.... Maybe that step is it... The place where she gets lost... I'm rereading again what each person has said and it is such a help. I have tools, and the freedom to let it go, too!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganicMom Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 I don't know whether I'll have suggestions, but I do wonder very specifically what she's having a hard time with? If it's that the sentences are not as detailed and pretty as the samples in the book, could you just write down what she says on scrap paper or a white board and then go back with her to pretty them up? (Remember, a learned adult has written the samples.) Maybe say that you really like such and such part. Let's add another detail to make it even better. Or, what's an even fancier adjective/word we could use here (what would Fancy Nancy say)? If she produces three simple sentences, maybe work on really prettying up just one of them right now. (Of course, you would want to correct grammatical errors too, but maybe just fix those without fuss.) This helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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