Need a break, and a new start...relaxed schooling ideas? (Long!)

[matrips]

After a disastrous start back to school this week ( things have been simmering for a bit with one ds), I tried re looking at how we do school. We've been following a pretty structured/organized routine (student binders with all materials, daily/ weekly schedules etc). I am a box checker by nature, relaxed does not come easy to me with their school! It seemed to work okay, but not great. Two do alright with it, third does not. He doesn't like being told what to do and I don't want to spend his childhood battling or arguing; plus he has been saying he hates school, which saddens me. Though none want to stop homeschooling. So we need a change. I know there are different ways to achieve the same objectives. He just turned 10 last month, same as his triplet siblings. In general, they are great kids, intelligent, quick learners, and fun to be around. The one just is really pushing for more independence. (Or gets stressed at keeping such a schedule, I don't know). Self control has been something we've worked on for many years with him and he has made huge strides and improvements. He's also my kid who is always moving, standing, talking, ... (And yes, he gets a lot of exercise and we avoid all artificial stuff and preservatives)

 

So I'd like to finish out the year with a more relaxed and student led approach to see how things change. And I'm looking for ideas that have worked (or backfired). I would love for them to be excited about learning again. This is what I did after Monday, and we've had a peaceful, wonderful week. (Tuesday he told me how hard it was to be so good all day, but today he said it didn't take much effort at all. And all three agree they've loved the week. So something here is working.). but I still want ideas to be able to keep this interesting and not get stagnant.

 

- I told the kids it's their education and future. I am there to help, teach, and guide, but ultimately it comes down to them. They will have assigned 'school time', about 4-5 hours per day to work quietly on their choice of material (provided from a list). They do still need some kind of basic structure or boundaries. No more play when you finish; it will be based on a clock and nothing else. I will not hover though. :)

- I kept our math, but lost the schedule. I will teach lessons as they go at whatever individual pace they want (we did cover reasonable guidelines though and I will provide a dedicated timed session for them to work on math each day. After that, they decide how much more to spend on it). They are 4th graders in Singapore 5b and MUS Epsilon)

- I will continue AAS 5 with one lesson a week

- I will continue IEW SICC A with a lesson a week

- they will do one handwriting page a day (cursive practice and correct it themselves)

- grammar will be on their own with DGP (Daily Grammar Practice. It looks simple, they can self correct, it's quick. We finished FLL 4 earlier in the year and I just somehow want them to keep up with some grammar without my involvement. Their grammar is pretty good. Not super thrilled with what I see of DGP yet. Love the format, but verbiage is different from fll.)

- I wrote up a reading sheet for them to select books/topics that interest them or that they want to learn more about. (They love, really love, to read and have diverse interests, but this will direct them to specifically pick one biography, one science, one history, one music/art, and one literature book of their choice per week.). They are welcome to choose new topics each week, or pick new books from the same theme. Either from our home library, or I'll order them from local library. One is working his way through the Peterson Bird guide book this week, and has his eye on another bird book for next week. I realize I will need to be aware of their interests and follow through with some hands on opportunities.

- I'm dropping everything else (we had just finished GSWL, Building Thinking Skills 2, tons of mind benders, balance benders, math analogies and more) They still have CC (with a weekly presentation), 4h (with end of year demonstrations coming up), music practice, basketball, scouts etc.

 

If you've stuck with me this far, and any of it resembles something you've gone through with your children, I would love to hear your input and ideas. I learn so much from this board and admire those moms who seem to really get their kids, and can provide what they truly need. I'm still trying.

[Farrar]

I still see a lot of work on there. And not a lot of content. To me, the content stuff is the stuff that makes it all fun and interesting.

 

Off the bat, I'd say why not let them go at their own pace with the AAS as well as the math? I can't imagine trying to get my boys to be on the same level with that. And a lesson a week sounds slowish for some kids.

 

How do they feel about the IEW? Do they enjoy writing? To me, writing is a place that's easy to let kids have more control and follow their interests.

 

Why do you need grammar? If you're trying to lighten the load, that's the first thing I'd ditch, especially since you have kids who have completed through FLL4. I get that it's quick and easy, but I'd let that go.

 

Reading five full books a week is a heavy reading load for fourth graders. My boys would not be able to meet that, but they're not fast readers and it may be fine for yours. Just something to consider. Also, if the goal is to let them pursue interests, then requiring those categories may not be exactly what you're going for. It may be better to be able to read about one topic then move on.

 

I also think... there's a way in which just saying to kids, no go follow your interests! sounds like it's going to be great. And even the kids may be excited by it. But then I think for many kids there's a letdown that can follow because there's also something very special about someone having prepared to teach you and gotten materials ready and given you a structure. I guess what I'm saying is that your proposal feels a bit like a pendulum swing in the opposite direction. We also do a lot of interest led learning and we've shifted toward doing more and paring down to doing basic skills plus interest led, but I do a lot of preparing materials and projects based on what we talk about. If they ask for something, I go find materials, I listen to what they want, I propose possible projects, we work on them together. Your plan feels to me like you're going to be stepping back a little when I'm wondering if maybe you need to find ways to recommit, if you know what I mean.

 

 

 

 

[matrips]

Thanks for the reply.

 

What would you consider doing about the content stuff then?

 

Yes, they do like Iew and do well with it. That has never seemed to be a problem.

 

The five books is light for them, and still gives them time for other reading on their own. They are fast readers and they love to read; they will try to read any chance they get. My goal of the categories was to have them think about what they might want to learn; I have one in particular who otherwise would read nothing but old favorites (isn't one to try often new books on her own). I am fine with re-reading books; it's just i want her to be more comfortable with others too. Depending on topics they pick and seem to love, I figured we'd end up doing something with it. For instance, one ds worked his way through the Peterson bird guide this week and has his eye on another bird book next week. I am planning to schedule some bird watching field trips (our local parks often have birding groups). I guess I was just feeling that while they had lots of playtime, they didn't have scheduled time to pick something on their own and study it.

 

Grammar. That was just so they don't forget it; just as a quick and easy way to refresh their memories and not lose old skills.

 

And yes, you are right, I am stepping back. But I believe they need that right now. I think Ive been too on top of them, and that is what is causing the issue. I am still here with them each day, even in the same room. Just not hovering and directing. As I mentioned, I am not a relaxed style mama, though I am trying to be a bit more.

[CardinalAlt]

Would you be interested in reading about some child-led methods? Project-Based Homeschooling, or there's a great Big Ideas approach chapter in Creative Homeschooling by Rivero... I do direct a fair amount in our homeschool, but I really value and try to protect and support the child-led project time, too. Maybe you could communicate hey, this is the bare minimum on my list each day/week, and it should take about X hours. After that, let's figure out what's on your list to explore and do, and see how I can support you in that.

[Farrar]

I think maybe reading Lori Pickartt's Project Based Homeschooling could be helpful for you in terms of thinking about how to support them doing stuff they want and yet have it not be hovering.

 

For the birds, for example, I think I'd say, that's cool that you're developing this interest, do you want to go outside and look for birds? Do you want to do the Great Backyard Bird Count? You could sketch birds or start a bird journal. Do you want to maybe dissect owl pellets or eggs? Start a feather collection? Write your own guide to birds? Get binoculars? Start taking bird photos? Write a poem about being a bird, write a short story about a bird. Watch Attenborough's Life of Birds. Visit the bird house at the zoo. I'd want to branch out and suggest more in depth books. Maybe read Owls in the Family and My Side of the Mountain. There are a couple of Scientist in the Field books about birds. And the key is not to be invested for you - that's the not hovering piece. It's being able to say, hey, what about trying this... and being okay with it if they do or don't. You're there to be a resource.

[matrips]

I think maybe reading Lori Pickartt's Project Based Homeschooling could be helpful for you in terms of thinking about how to support them doing stuff they want and yet have it not be hovering.

 

For the birds, for example, I think I'd say, that's cool that you're developing this interest, do you want to go outside and look for birds? Do you want to do the Great Backyard Bird Count? You could sketch birds or start a bird journal. Do you want to maybe dissect owl pellets or eggs? Start a feather collection? Write your own guide to birds? Get binoculars? Start taking bird photos? Write a poem about being a bird, write a short story about a bird. Watch Attenborough's Life of Birds. Visit the bird house at the zoo. I'd want to branch out and suggest more in depth books. Maybe read Owls in the Family and My Side of the Mountain. There are a couple of Scientist in the Field books about birds. And the key is not to be invested for you - that's the not hovering piece. It's being able to say, hey, what about trying this... and being okay with it if they do or don't. You're there to be a resource.

Would this book help me come up with those kinds of ideas? I had mentioned to my son about sketching them, taking notes on favorites, or going bird watching. They've dissected owl pellets a few times in the past. But how do you come up with so many ideas?! I struggle with that. Is it that you're more creative? Or will these books give me suggestions on how to do that too? I can check boxes and read and do field trips, but I'm not good with the other stuff.

 

And if he comes back and says no to everything and that he just wants to read about them, then just leave it at that?

 

I feel like I sound a clueless newbie! But I'm appreciating the help! So I wouldn't expect them to come up with ideas on things to do with their interest, I would somehow try to come up with lots of ideas for them? Is that it? Sounds simple, but yet not. This will take practice.

 

Okay, other ds loves Edward Hopper. Aside from getting more books out of the library, I haven't offered more resources. Ideas for that one? :). Would I offer suggestions to paint in his style or learning about his time period? I'm stumped. I fear I'm truly non- creative, but I do think it is what we are missing.

[Farrar]

Would this book help me come up with those kinds of ideas? I had mentioned to my son about sketching them, taking notes on favorites, or going bird watching. They've dissected owl pellets a few times in the past. But how do you come up with so many ideas?! I struggle with that. Is it that you're more creative? Or will these books give me suggestions on how to do that too? I can check boxes and read and do field trips, but I'm not good with the other stuff.

 

And if he comes back and says no to everything and that he just wants to read about them, then just leave it at that?

 

I feel like I sound a clueless newbie! But I'm appreciating the help! So I wouldn't expect them to come up with ideas on things to do with their interest, I would somehow try to come up with lots of ideas for them? Is that it? Sounds simple, but yet not. This will take practice.

 

Okay, other ds loves Edward Hopper. Aside from getting more books out of the library, I haven't offered more resources. Ideas for that one? :). Would I offer suggestions to paint in his style or learning about his time period? I'm stumped. I fear I'm truly non- creative, but I do think it is what we are missing.

 

The Project-Based Homeschooling book is mostly useful for seeing examples of this sort of thing. And for relaxing and figuring out how to support kids and make suggestions without taking over. I think it's not so much that you don't expect them to come up with the ideas - they may - more that you want to keep being a partner in this endeavor and not just being passive. Sometimes they may know just what they want to do and you basically just encourage, provide the time and the transportation, and sit back and enjoy. But other times they may be like, I want to make a robot. And then nothing happens. So you have to find the books, suggest the specific steps, come up with ways that it can extend like writing a robot poem or something. But also be willing to have your ideas ignored and be okay with that. Not all projects have to come to fruition.

 

I have to note that I did find that book slightly frustrating at times in part because it was focused mainly on art and younger kids. Still, the spirit of it it really nice.

 

Hopper paintings are great to write stories about. You're right though that some topics won't offer as many avenues of exploration. But they might open up others - other artists of the time, history of the time, etc. Since you're a box checker, maybe you could have a list of types of ways of exploring and thinking preset for yourself: read books, watch a video, make a video, draw something, do a report, write a poem, write a story, etc. etc. And a series of questions: Are there any local clubs or resources that could help my child with this? Are there any field trips locally we could take? Is there any way we can experiment with this? What jobs are connected with this topic? Etc. etc. And maybe that sort of thing will help you.

 

I have to add... there are lots and lots of ways to approach this sort of thing - interest-led learning. People have very different takes on it. Some people would tell you to completely back off and just go with the flow, so to speak. Other people would tell you to plan a course ahead of time around what the kids want to learn and line up all the resources and assignments ahead of time. So my take is just one idea of how to make it work.

[CardinalAlt]

Yes, these books would help! So would googling unit study ideas for particular interests - not for you to take control, but to present some options... If he says no to everything, I might ask him just to think about how he wants to keep track of what he's learning (blogging, note booking, lists, cataloguing, photos, blogging, v-logging, other creative options/responses - keep the bar really low for this at first), and/or how he might want to share what he's learned with others eventually (you, family, friends, some other audience...). I think the second question is a little trickier sometimes at the beginning of a project, but can give purpose to tracking what you're learning.

 

This is part of what Rivero calls the project cycle...

 

Edited for typos :)

[matrips]

Would you be interested in reading about some child-led methods? Project-Based Homeschooling, or there's a great Big Ideas approach chapter in Creative Homeschooling by Rivero... I do direct a fair amount in our homeschool, but I really value and try to protect and support the child-led project time, too. Maybe you could communicate hey, this is the bare minimum on my list each day/week, and it should take about X hours. After that, let's figure out what's on your list to explore and do, and see how I can support you in that.

Thanks, I plan to try these out.

[matrips]

The Project-Based Homeschooling book is mostly useful for seeing examples of this sort of thing. And for relaxing and figuring out how to support kids and make suggestions without taking over. I think it's not so much that you don't expect them to come up with the ideas - they may - more that you want to keep being a partner in this endeavor and not just being passive. Sometimes they may know just what they want to do and you basically just encourage, provide the time and the transportation, and sit back and enjoy. But other times they may be like, I want to make a robot. And then nothing happens. So you have to find the books, suggest the specific steps, come up with ways that it can extend like writing a robot poem or something. But also be willing to have your ideas ignored and be okay with that. Not all projects have to come to fruition.

 

I have to note that I did find that book slightly frustrating at times in part because it was focused mainly on art and younger kids. Still, the spirit of it it really nice.

 

Hopper paintings are great to write stories about. You're right though that some topics won't offer as many avenues of exploration. But they might open up others - other artists of the time, history of the time, etc. Since you're a box checker, maybe you could have a list of types of ways of exploring and thinking preset for yourself: read books, watch a video, make a video, draw something, do a report, write a poem, write a story, etc. etc. And a series of questions: Are there any local clubs or resources that could help my child with this? Are there any field trips locally we could take? Is there any way we can experiment with this? What jobs are connected with this topic? Etc. etc. And maybe that sort of thing will help you.

 

I have to add... there are lots and lots of ways to approach this sort of thing - interest-led learning. People have very different takes on it. Some people would tell you to completely back off and just go with the flow, so to speak. Other people would tell you to plan a course ahead of time around what the kids want to learn and line up all the resources and assignments ahead of time. So my take is just one idea of how to make it work.

You've given me a lot to think about, and look up. Do you do this with any and all interests they may have? Or just ones that seem to persist a bit? I guess I always thought that kids would pursue or ask more about things they were interested in. Perhaps they've been waiting for me to give them more ideas.

 

Thanks for the help today. I appreciate you taking the time out to respond back.

[Farrar]

You've given me a lot to think about, and look up. Do you do this with any and all interests they may have? Or just ones that seem to persist a bit? I guess I always thought that kids would pursue or ask more about things they were interested in. Perhaps they've been waiting for me to give them more ideas.

 

Thanks for the help today. I appreciate you taking the time out to respond back.

 

My kids are about your kids' age - they're 10 yo. Until last year, we did more top down content and took a whole history and science cycle from start to finish. But by the end, we were talking together about changing our approach. A lot of the reason has been that we started when they were really little with me wanting to do interest led stuff and realizing that they didn't have any interests! That's a huge exaggeration, but my kids didn't have that "little expert" phase and were always receptive to learning about most anything and much happier when I picked out topics. So I did. But as they have gotten older, they have wanted to have the reins more and told me the sorts of things they've wanted to do. We agreed to run out the clock on the history cycle - they wanted to study the world wars and the Cold War and I wanted to require them to do the Civil Rights Movement anyway, so that made sense - but since then we've been trying to follow their rabbit trails. We just did a huge unit on houses - architecture styles of houses, how houses are built, researching our house. It was sort of fun. I still owe them a trip to Falling Water from that. They pick out their writing projects, they pick their math projects. We're part of a co-op that is student run - they pick the topics and decide what sort of projects to do together.

 

But sometimes they have an interest and don't want it to be part of "school." One of my ds is really into electronics. Both of them enjoy programming. I keep suggesting things I think will be fun and incorporate those interests, like I said we should all write an infocom style game together as a writing project and then they can do the programming for it. Nope, no dice. So some interests aren't allowed to be school interests too, and I just have to accept that.