bluedarling Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 My boys are doing MUS Geometry, but I'd like to add Algebra II concurrently. One boy could handle Foeresters last year, but the other one could not (too many problems even doing every other). He does, however, believe he could handle MUS Algebra II on top of geometry. I'd rather not spend $150 right now, though. What are my other options? I may be able to get the TT disk on loan from our charter, but that was about the only thing I saw available. Should I try TT? or is there something better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 MUS is only $100 new for both the teacher and student packs combined. You could buy the MUS teacher pack used and whatever student books you need new at $32 each. If you want them both to use it and money is tight, they can share a student pack by writing on paper instead of in the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedarling Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 Yes, $150 was for two student books along with teacher pack with shipping. If I could find used teacher pack like I always have in the past it wouldn't be such an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndOfOrdinary Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Algebra-2-Math-U-See-Complete-Set-Three-Books-and-DVD-by-Steven-P-Demme-1608-/400790198693?pt=US_Texbook_Education&hash=item5d50f519a5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedarling Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 Well, I'm glad I didn't rush to purchase yet.....my 2nd child is complaining that MUS Geometry is REALLY easy, and wants to know if he can test out. (He does a lot of geometry he says in his Blender/3D art.) He likes MUS, but now I'm questioning if I should have separated the boys, and given this child more challenging curriculum!! MUS will be appropriate for eldest, regardless, but its much more economical to keep them together. Suggestions? 2nd prefers MUS because its quick and easy, I'm just wondering if its really what I should be requiring. He'll start DE next year at CC, hopefully placing into pre-calc, meaning he needs to complete both geometry and algebra II this year if possible. Both boys will be doing the same, its just that I know eldest struggled in Foerester last year, but not in MUS. MUS would make completing both more feasible...but if geometry is just busywork?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 MUS Geometry is just the geometry needed for ACT/SAT testing. It is formula driven and has very few proofs and those only come at the very end. It is the easiest geometry I am aware of on the market. I say that having used it twice as it was exactly what we wanted in a geometry program. Neither of my kids ever intends to take a calculus class. They just needed the basics to get through college entrance exams. MUS Algebra/Algebra 2 is a bit more complete than that, but still light. We upped Algebra to Lial's instead of MUS. It is super inexpensive and just a moderate step up, not nearly as difficult as Foersters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedarling Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 MUS Geometry is just the geometry needed for ACT/SAT testing. It is formula driven and has very few proofs and those only come at the very end. It is the easiest geometry I am aware of on the market. I say that having used it twice as it was exactly what we wanted in a geometry program. Neither of my kids ever intends to take a calculus class. They just needed the basics to get through college entrance exams. MUS Algebra/Algebra 2 is a bit more complete than that, but still light. We upped Algebra to Lial's instead of MUS. It is super inexpensive and just a moderate step up, not nearly as difficult as Foersters. Thanks! So perhaps both boys could do Lials? My eldest's problem seems to be too many problems (even having him doing every other). He's a slow worker, and needs carefully selected problems, which I wasn't sure how to do with Foeresters. MUS was perfect because it was always 15-20 problems, including review. Do you think Lial's would work for him, or should I keep him w/MUS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Thanks! So perhaps both boys could do Lials? My eldest's problem seems to be too many problems (even having him doing every other). He's a slow worker, and needs carefully selected problems, which I wasn't sure how to do with Foeresters. MUS was perfect because it was always 15-20 problems, including review. Do you think Lial's would work for him, or should I keep him w/MUS? Lial's has lots and lots of problems and selecting just enough but not overwhelmingly many may be a chore. Do you have someone who could go through and circle all the problems he should do, if you don't trust yourself? Maybe a math teacher friend or something? I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Lial's has lots and lots of problems and selecting just enough but not overwhelmingly many may be a chore. Do you have someone who could go through and circle all the problems he should do, if you don't trust yourself? Maybe a math teacher friend or something? I Agreed. We do odds with Lial's, and divide each lesson across two days. It is typically 15-25 problems each day that way, but sometimes its more, sometimes quite a bit more. If he doesn't mind looking at big pages of problems with you assigning odds only and maybe even removing more than that, it could work. The fact that MUS had fewer problems was one of the reasons was one of the reasons I used it with ds when he was younger. He has multiple LDs and long pages of problems were a bad thing. The one warning I would give is that the year you switch from MUS to something else is going to be a challenging year. Every lessons in Lial's starts with what they expect to be review and then moves to new material. Coming from MUS, more will be new, less will be review. Because Lial's teaches every concept from step one, it is a great program to use to step up, but the switch year does take longer. Dd switched at Algebra 1 and that was a long year, but she is flying through Algebra 2 this year. Ds switched at Algebra 2 and it took forever to get through. He didn't go on, but I think he would have had the same experience she is with it leveling out the following year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedarling Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 Thanks, Momto2Ns. We did sort of switch last year (or tried, at least....with Foeresters.) Anyway, it shouldn't be a total shock...I'm just not sure its worth switching my eldest. Last year with Foeresters is still too fresh, and I think he'll fight returning to the textbook approach. He's willing to do more with MUS, so I think I'll just go with that! So MUS for him, and Lial's for 2nd child, if I can manage it. I have a plan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndOfOrdinary Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Just out of curiosity, have you explained to your eldest that even Community College PreCalc is going to probably be a very dense textbook with stacks of problem sets? Granted, he can take as many hours in the week as he needs to do the problems, and he can self select which ones he does, but it will more than likely be a rather significant leap from MUS in a situation where the grade really matters. That might steer my choice to start stepping out of my comfort zone at home rather than at college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Just out of curiosity, have you explained to your eldest that even Community College PreCalc is going to probably be a very dense textbook with stacks of problem sets? Granted, he can take as many hours in the week as he needs to do the problems, and he can self select which ones he does, but it will more than likely be a rather significant leap from MUS in a situation where the grade really matters. That might steer my choice to start stepping out of my comfort zone at home rather than at college. Yep, I would seriously reconsider that decision. After doing Geometry and Algebra 2 this year, what about having him do MUS Pre-Calc over the summer and first semester next year, then doing Pre-Calc at the CC in the spring? Pre-Calc is typically a class that combines College Algebra and Trig in a rush through pass. Most kids taking it have had exposure to some of the topics before. If not, taking the two classes separately is a better idea so they have a full year to get through the material instead of one semester. You can cross that bridge later though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Am I reading wrong? I thought that it was the second one who was going to do DE and hoped to place into pre-calc, and that was why he needed a more rigorous algebra 2. I would agree that MUS alg 2 is not suitable preparation for college precalculus for most students. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Am I reading wrong? I thought that it was the second one who was going to do DE and hoped to place into pre-calc, and that was why he needed a more rigorous algebra 2. I would agree that MUS alg 2 is not suitable preparation for college precalculus for most students. You may be completely right here Kiana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedarling Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 Actually both sons are starting DE next year, and both will need pre-calc. For eldest, that may be his only required math class (unless he decides to go on to university). For 2nd child, he will need as much math as he can get (physics). Both children like physics/engineering, but math is holding up eldest. His plan is to get an AA in electronics, then decide if he wants to go on from there. The funny thing is that eldest is actually a better math student, grade-wise. 2nd child rushes through and mis-reads or forgets things (add), but loves a good theoretical discussion of math! Eldest is perfectionistic, and is willing to try another program than MUS if I'll let only tests count (so he doesn't have to do so many problems...only as many as needs to understand concepts.) This was the method K12 used when we tried it when he was younger....I felt he learned/mastered very little with that approach because he's a good tester and tested out everything without doing any work. No work=no long term retention imo. Oy! I thought this was all decided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Ok, I really don't think that DE precalc is a good choice after MUS alg 2. I would start with DE college algebra instead, or as others suggested complete MUS precalc and then do DE precalc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedarling Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 Ok, I really don't think that DE precalc is a good choice after MUS alg 2. I would start with DE college algebra instead, or as others suggested complete MUS precalc and then do DE precalc. If we did Lials...would they go right into DE Pre-Calc? Would that change things? ETA: I'm not against them starting with DE College Algebra...it won't count for their degrees, though. It would get them used to college level math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I think starting with college algebra would be a superior choice -- college algebra + precalc covers what's in a PS precalc course. If you DID want to go straight into precalc, I'd find out which precalc book they use and what chapters they cover, and do the chapters prior to that in the book, am I making sense? For example, my precalc course uses lial's, but we start in chapter 5 after one day of review of important topics from earlier chapters. Someone who'd self-studied Lial chapters 1-4 would be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedarling Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 I think starting with college algebra would be a superior choice -- college algebra + precalc covers what's in a PS precalc course. If you DID want to go straight into precalc, I'd find out which precalc book they use and what chapters they cover, and do the chapters prior to that in the book, am I making sense? For example, my precalc course uses lial's, but we start in chapter 5 after one day of review of important topics from earlier chapters. Someone who'd self-studied Lial chapters 1-4 would be fine. So does it matter Lial's vs. MUS at this point? Only if they are going to try to skip college algebra? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 So does it matter Lial's vs. MUS at this point? Only if they are going to try to skip college algebra? Imo, Lial's will prepare them better for college algebra than MUS will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedarling Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 Also need advice on the idea of "testing out" so he doesn't have to do so many problems. Eldest is willing to do Lial's with this condition. Thoughts? (My gut says fine, then stick with MUS...at least the number of problems is set and doable...) That said, I started letting 2nd child test out of some of the geometry that he felt was way too easy....so I haven't totally followed my own philosophy!! If I'm letting one "test out", now I've opened a can of worms! Help!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Also need advice on the idea of "testing out" so he doesn't have to do so many problems. Eldest is willing to do Lial's with this condition. Thoughts? (My gut says fine, then stick with MUS...at least the number of problems is set and doable...) That said, I started letting 2nd child test out of some of the geometry that he felt was way too easy....so I haven't totally followed my own philosophy!! If I'm letting one "test out", now I've opened a can of worms! Help!! I'd get Lial's for both of them. Let them try it and see how it goes. Let your oldest do every other odd problem as a minimum and "test out" from there. It won't be a lot of problems. Each lesson is designed to be two days long. It is meant for college so taught Monday, then homework Monday-Tuesday, next lesson taught Wednesday etc. It works very well that way. Some lessons are short enough (especially the early ones in each chapter that have a lot of review) that we may do the whole lesson in one day, but we divide most to keep it lighter. If the format and quantity or difficulty of work is overwhelming - switch to MUS. If LIal's goes well, they will be much better prepared to go straight into Pre-Calc. Lial's Intermediate Algebra Solutions manual eta links in case you need them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedarling Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 Thank you. I just ordered Lial's. It's inexpensive, so if I made a mistake, at least its an inexpensive mistake! I may need to brush up my skills to teach/grade it, but hopefully it comes back to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Thank you. I just ordered Lial's. It's inexpensive, so if I made a mistake, at least its an inexpensive mistake! I may need to brush up my skills to teach/grade it, but hopefully it comes back to me! This is the way I feel about it. If they try it and hate it, you've lost nothing but a little time. If you need to switch back to MUS because they hate it or are overwhelmed, I found they cover topics in very similar order and you will probably be able to just let them test out of the first chapters of MUS, place in and go. For the few dollars it costs, it is worth a try. Khan Academy can be a great place to go for some video supplementing of the Lial's lessons. There are videos that go with Lial's and they are cheap too, but after MUS videos, my kids watched just a couple and refused to watch more. They were just exactly what was in the book and boring. I have seen one person on these boards who said their kids were helped by them though. If you end up needing them, PM me. I think I have them and would send them to you for shipping cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedarling Posted November 11, 2014 Author Share Posted November 11, 2014 Looking ahead to CC next year. After we finish Lials Intermediate Algebra, which college class should they take? I'm not finding "College Algebra" on the CC's website. They appear to offer (trimester system) intermediate algebra (099) then it appears the next class is Pre-Calculus? (It is 2 trimesters...first trimester is algebra and 2nd is trig.) Is this the same? My eldest placed into pre-calc last year without geometry or Alg II, so I'm not worried about placement...just worried about them going into a course they aren't prepared for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Are there two precalculus classes (i and ii), or potentially precalculus algebra and then trigonometry? There should be two courses between intermediate algebra and calculus 1. Anyway, they should take whichever course has intermediate algebra as the prerequisite, assuming they pass the placement test (which sounds likely) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedarling Posted November 11, 2014 Author Share Posted November 11, 2014 Yes, there are two...so it sounds like college algebra was renamed Pre-Calculus algebra. We started Lial's today. Very first problem for ds2, and we have a disagreement over the answer. I can solve the problem and get the textbook answer. He agrees with how I got it, but he explained his logic and how he approached the problem, and his seems right, too....I see no errors in his logic (though he didn't get the right answer.) :( This is going to be rough! Where do we go for help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Post a cellphone pic or similar of the problem and describe what he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedarling Posted November 11, 2014 Author Share Posted November 11, 2014 He was doing it on the computer, so I had him annotate and send to me: 1. The length of a rectangle is 3 in. more than its width. If the length were decreased by 2 in. and the width increased by 1 in., the perimeter of the resulting rectangle would be 24 in. find the dimensions of the original rectangle. L = W + 3 The perimeter of the new rectangle is 24. Since P = 2W + 2L, I Decreased by 4 and increased by 2. This results in 22. P = 24 - 4 + 2 P = 22 Since half of the perimeter is equal to length plus width, I divided by 2 L + W = 11 the two numbers that add up to 11 are 7 and 4. These are the only valid numbers since all other pairs of numbers would not conform to the equation, L = W + 3. L = 7 W = 4 7 = 4 + 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedarling Posted November 11, 2014 Author Share Posted November 11, 2014 Never mind!!! Staring at my reply I saw the problem. He did the opposite of what he should have in calculating the original perimeter. The original perimeter is P = 24 + 4 - 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 yep! other than that his reasoning works fine. I like his reasoning a lot actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dereksurfs Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 We used MUS and found it too easy and therefore not challenging ds13 enough. He also is interested in a STEM profession. From MUS we switched to TabletClass and it was the best sinlge decision I've made for him. It's an excellent program with very good online lessons. And right now they are having their half off sale! Check it out. This would definitely prepare them for college and provide all the instruction built-in. http://tabletclass.com/homeschool/tabletclass-math-discount.aspx http://www.tabletclass.com/courses/algebra2.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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