theflyingbunny: response to your "ASU requires only live labs" thread

[Lori D.]

Hi theflyingbunny!

 

For some reason, I was not able to respond to your thread, as it is only allowing "group members" to respond… So, for anyone else interested in ASU and the science lab requirements, I just wanted to point to you a previous thread that addressed this: Obnoxious lab science requirement.

 

Hope that helps! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Angie in VA]

Would virtual labs not count, then? (Sorry if this was mentioned already. I didn't see that original thread that Lori can't post on.)

 

What about the states that are legally obligated to offer virtual labs (at least for dissection). Would those not count?

 

 

 

 

 

[SilverMoon]

Dude! My rising 6th grader simply assumes that *will* be his school someday. Like little Mike Wazowski in Monsters University.

 

Mental note: Start collecting "real" lab equipment now.

[Dina in Oklahoma]

Perhaps outsourcing them to Landry Academy or a similar resource would be the easiest and surest way to meet their unreasonable requirements.

[Lori D.]

Here is flyingbunny's original post: "ASU only accepts "live labs" on high school transcript. Advice?"

 

AND, flyingbunny: in answer to your original post -- you will only need to write up the years of science done at home, since 9th grade science was done in a school setting, and the 12th grade science you plan on doing through college dual enrollment. Be sure to indicate that in the science paperwork, that the other years were done in a school setting.

 

 

Would virtual labs not count, then? (Sorry if this was mentioned already. I didn't see that original thread that Lori can't post on.)

 

What about the states that are legally obligated to offer virtual labs (at least for dissection). Would those not count?

 

No, virtual labs are not accepted by ASU for homeschoolers in place of physical labs -- virtual labs would be fine in addition to some physical labs in which students "at least 1 class period each week… manipulate equipment, materials, or specimens, or develop skills in observation and analysis, and… discover, demonstrate, illustrate, or test  scientific principles and concepts." **

 

(Note: Only homeschoolers are required to provide the additional lab information, because it is assumed that science done in a traditional school setting includes physical (not just virtual) labs as part of the scheduled coursework.)

 

 

Here's the backstory to this requirement:

 

The 3 AZ public universities are governed by the AZ Board of Regents. The Board writes all of the policies, including those for undergraduate admission requirements, for all 3 schools. The above quote (**) is from section 2-121 (undergraduate admission requirements), p. 2-4 (requirements for a laboratory science). On page 10 of the policy, the AZ Board of Regents requires homeschoolers to follow the undergraduate admission requirements outlined in the policy for each of the subject areas (science, math, english, etc.).

 

Of the 3 public universities, only ASU has taken this policy as "letter of the law" and has created the additional paperwork as proof from homeschoolers that they meet the science section of the undergraduate admission requirements. The other 2 public universities, U of A and NAU, do not require additional paperwork or proofs from homeschoolers.

 

 

It's not as big a deal as it sounds -- just an extra hoop of paperwork to jump. If you plan to attend ASU, then

 

1. As you do your science each year, do whatever labs are included as part of your science text/program, or do some TOPS units or Home Science Tools supplies/kits for other actual hands-on experiments that match up with your science subject.

 

2. Write up a few of the experiments as lab write-ups (consider using the Lab Sciences Evaluation Form and example ASU provides on page 2 of the form, so you'll already have lab write-ups in their format, ready to go).

 

3. When you apply to ASU, print off one of these ASU forms for each year of science done at home as part of your homeschooling:

- Page 1 = list textbook, give a course description, explain the methodology of labs -- be sure to use REAL LAB EQUIPMENT words (beakers, flasks, graduated cylinders, bunsen burner) rather than kitchen items (glass jars, measuring cups/spoons, the stovetop).

- Page 2 = provide a typical lab report (they provide a sample scenario and steps)

 

4. Submit one science form for each year of science, along with:

- a Homeschool Affidavit (as proof of high school graduation)

- meet the same admission requirements as other freshmen (list of required courses for entrance, and either meet minimum scores on ACT or SAT or have minimum 3.0 in competency courses or be in top 25% of class)

 

 

 

BTW: a homeschooling friend whose DD graduated in 2011 got a full music scholarship to ASU.  :)

 

For each science class, she just photocopied the textbook cover, copyright page and table of contents; printed a list of all the lab equipment (with the "scientific" names, lol), and all the lab kits used for each science class, plus photocopied a few of the lab reports and sent it all in as a packet as proof of real lab science, along with the required form.

 

I don't recall she had any issues. It just took a little extra time and effort to jump the hoop.

[SilverMoon]

So a weekly lab or outsource. For that matter it's on my rising 9th's maybe list. Hm...

[Lori D.]

So a weekly lab or outsource.

 

SilverMoon, if you do the 2 dozen or so labs that most science texts/programs include, you will be fine. You are WAY over-thinking this. :)

 

Re-read the last paragraph of my previous post on what my friend did, having used Apologia and just doing the included labs, and they had NO troubles getting into ASU.

[SilverMoon]

Okay. :) I have been reading in brief snippets between a constant flow of kids/subjects. I'll read deeper when I'm planted on the pool bleacher. For now my 6yo is complaining that I never did spelling with her..lol

[Laura in CA]

 

- Page 1 = list textbook, give a course description, explain the methodology of labs -- be sure to use REAL LAB EQUIPMENT words (beakers, flasks, graduated cylinders, bunsen burner) rather than kitchen items (glass jars, measuring cups/spoons, the stovetop).

 

 

 

One of the things I really appreciate about TOPS is how they use simple things from around the house ... based, they say, on having done their science activities in Africa, where fewer resources were available.

 

My advisor at Princeton was very pleased with himself for using in his lab, instead of a $300 "warming bath," a $25 kitchen appliance such as an electric skillet. (He also had lasers that cost $250,000, haha -- and this was in the 1980s.)  As Lori said (in the other thread?), Marie Curie and others seemed to do just fine without "real" equipment.

 

Our engineering friends at Silicon Valley startups use all sorts of wacky items from the hardware store and thrift stores and, yes, from around the house when building their initial prototypes. 

 

Lori -- thank you, as always, for making sense of this requirement. A friend of mine's homeschooled daughter was just accepted into ASU's online program, after jumping through some hoops. 

 

Ironically, my husband is a (fairly proud) ASU grad, but neither of our sons was interested in applying ... these lab requirements were one disincentive, along with the hot weather and the size of the school. :)

[SilverMoon]

The summers can be pretty mean, but the *other* 3/4 of the year our weather is awesome. :P

 

I actually wouldn't mind being told it'd be easier to outsource HS science for DS/5th. Ha! The red quote saying weekly made it seem even more likely. There is no doubt he will pass my ability to keep up with him before he finishes high school. BSA's new Nova program is getting him mingling with some really kewl scientists, which feeds/fuels him in a way I just can't. :) (This will also provide proof he's performed real experiments alongside real scientists.)

 

The bright side is it's easier to know and document as we go rather than years later. And it's not a big loss if they end up somewhere else.

[homeschoolkitty]

Not for the same university, but one of my students of our CoOp just added my syllabus that mentioned the labs we were going to do along with detail way to write a laboratory notebook. then they checked her lab notebook and accepted it.