My ds has hit a wall in Saxon Advanced Math - what to do?

[Tenaj]

My 17yods has hit a wall for some reason in Advanced Math.  We've slowed down to only doing half a lesson a day but he's still struggling.  He's done Saxon since 8/7.  We've already started the book over once after he began struggling on the tests (that's when we slowed down the pace) but he just took Test #6 (after Lesson 28) and he really bombed it (twice - LOL!.  I had him retake it just to see if he had an "off" day).  

 

My approach has always been to repeat previous lessons.  In this case, he would back up to Lesson 20, redo the lessons and retest which is the plan but I'm getting the sense that it it may be a better choice to branch off into something different for this year?  He's using Saxon teacher this year so he does have additional instruction apart from the book.  

 

Any ideas, suggestions or similar experiences?  Thanks!

[Teachin'Mine]

Is it possible that he learns better directly from the book than from the video?  Our experience was that the Advanced Math lessons were more time consuming than any of the previous texts.  I think dd spent about 2 hours on each lesson.   Would ChalkDust pre-calculus work?

[mom31257]

Well, I hate the Saxon Advanced Math book, so my advice would be to ditch the program. I taught a co-op class using it. I had students who had used Saxon throughout all of school who couldn't understand it. I would present the "Saxon" way of doing problems, and after blank stares and not being able to get it, I would show them the way I learned. Nine times out of ten, they would ask me why Saxon didn't teach that way.  

 

I've not used a video math course for high school because I have a math degree, so I can't really recommend any particular program. 

[kiana]

If you've already backed up and restarted once I'd look for a different curriculum.

[Tenaj]

So what options to I have?   With Saxon's Geometry sequence all mixed up in the Algebra II and Advanced Math books, I'm at a bit of a loss to even begin placing him into a different program.  Maybe speed through a geometry program and then into pre-calc????

[dbmamaz]

honestly, I'd try to find videos on youtube which explain what you are covering.  There's some great free stuff out there. You can start with Khan academy, but you'd be surprised how many math teachers have put videos out on youtube.  I'd start by supplementing the book you have to see if you can help him understand it better.

[Brenda in MA]

So what options to I have?   With Saxon's Geometry sequence all mixed up in the Algebra II and Advanced Math books, I'm at a bit of a loss to even begin placing him into a different program.  Maybe speed through a geometry program and then into pre-calc????

Jan,

 

I had exactly the same experience with my oldest son. He used Saxon from 87 - the first part of Advanced Math. The Advanced Math lessons were taking a long time, but he was doing well on the tests. Then he started physics, and I realized that he really couldn't apply the math he'd learned. With Saxon, he had learned to memorize their methodology and not really think about the problems. Advanced Math became tougher because there is just so much content to memorize. He was also frustrated with the book and how much I had to help him.

 

At this point, I gave him the Aleks placement test just to see where he would fall in another program. He ended up testing part way into Algebra 2. I had him use Aleks for a few weeks over the summer to bolster weak areas, and I began looking for another curriculum. I ended up going with Chalkdust PreCalc. My son loved the video instruction and did very well with the book. He went on to use Chalkdust Calc and did well with that, too. He ended up majoring in engineering in college and was well prepared for the math, but thank goodness that we switched away from Saxon when we did.

 

Regarding the Geometry -- That is covered in Saxon through Alg 1, 2, and the first part of Advanced Math. If I were you, as long as you feel pretty comfortable that he understands Geometry, I think I'd give him the credit for that and move on to a different PreCalc text.

 

Best wishes,

Brenda

[Teachin'Mine]

If he did well with Saxon Algebra II by using the book alone, is it possible that he's relying too heavily on watching the Saxon DVD lessons and not doing the problems himself?   I'd thoroughly investigate if he's doing anything differently with this text vs past ones before dropping it.   If you do decide to drop it, maybe you could do a stand alone geometry text and do double lessons to finish this year and begin a different pre-calculus next year.  Or if you have community college as an option, he could take classes there and make up for any lost time as the classes move much more quickly.

[mom31257]

I agree with Brenda about Geometry. I will say that I am loving the books by Margaret Lial. They are very good with concise, easy to understand examples. I believe College Algebra and Trig is the pre-calculus book. They are usually very affordable used and student solutions manuals are available. 

 

 

[kiana]

I also agree with Brenda about Geometry.

 

I find Lial's, Stewart's, and Cohen's precalculus textbooks well-explained and readable.

 

Here's what I'd do:

1) Identify any holes. For this I would get an intermediate algebra textbook (Lial's is widely available used. Bittinger's and Martin-Gay are other popular choices at community colleges, and so should also be widely available used) and test through, using the chapter tests. I wouldn't worry about (using the table of contents from Lial here) systems of linear equations other than two-variable systems, inverse/exponential functions, conic sections/nonlinear systems, and sequences and series. These will be taught in precalculus and so it isn't necessary to go back and cover them. Looking at the Lial's TOC here: http://www.pearsonhighered.com/educator/product/Intermediate-Algebra-11E/9780321715418.page, I would do the chapter tests for 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9. I would also do a few homework problems from 4.1. If he is weak on any topics in these chapters I would do homework problems related to them. Student solutions manuals for these are also widely available and give solutions to the odd problems.

 

2) Pick a standard precalculus program and work through it. If you want the video instruction Chalkdust is solid.