History of the Peloponnesian War

[Hot Lava Mama]

Ds (9th grade) is reading this.  How can I figure out a great writing assignment to go with this book.  Any suggestions on what to do?

:)

Hot Lava Mama

[regentrude]

Let him pick a topic?

If you want to assign a topic, I would start by thinking about what aspects you found interesting and remarkable when you read the work, or what questions arose which you find debatable.

 

Possible analysis ideas that come to my mind are the question whether he reporting factually or to which degree is this  a work of literature,  and whether and to what degree do his background and origin bias his reporting.

He could examine the role of speeches in the context of the work.

Or if you are more interested in a report than in an argumentative essay, you could have your student write about military technology or strategy issues, if that is something he is interested in.

[Hot Lava Mama]

Let him pick a topic?

If you want to assign a topic, I would start by thinking about what aspects you found interesting and remarkable when you read the work, or what questions arose which you find debatable.

 

Possible analysis ideas that come to my mind are the question whether he reporting factually or to which degree is this  a work of literature,  and whether and to what degree do his background and origin bias his reporting.

He could examine the role of speeches in the context of the work.

Or if you are more interested in a report than in an argumentative essay, you could have your student write about military technology or strategy issues, if that is something he is interested in.

Thanks for the help.  Do you know of any source that I could use to start drafting some questions to Great Books as we make our way through high school.  I have not read them (not required in my high school), so I am reading them at the same time as he is.  I would like to have a well crafted topic before he starts reading so he can be thinking about it as he reads.  I feel like I am behind the ball with figuring out what to do for essays. 

 

While we are reading Great Books (much more than I was required to do in high school), I would like to expand his education to analysis of those books.  Help.  Struggling!

:)

 

 

[regentrude]

I am sorry, I don't know of such a resource. We have been using the opposite approach: have the student read completely unbiased with an open mind, not with the eye to the answers of a specific question, and then have my student choose a topic he/she found worth exploring further. My kids have always chosen their own writing topics.

I have been using a lot of TC lectures for history, and the discussion questions in the lecture booklets are often very interesting and thought provoking.

[Hot Lava Mama]

I am sorry, I don't know of such a resource. We have been using the opposite approach: have the student read completely unbiased with an open mind, not with the eye to the answers of a specific question, and then have my student choose a topic he/she found worth exploring further. My kids have always chosen their own writing topics.

I have been using a lot of TC lectures for history, and the discussion questions in the lecture booklets are often very interesting and thought provoking.

 

Do you ever run into answers like "I don't know".  How do you get the questions out of them?  I tried this on an earlier Great Book, and he felt overwhelmed and didn't really know what to discuss.  I have a book with some Socratic questions, do you use questions like that?

:)

[regentrude]

Do you ever run into answers like "I don't know".  How do you get the questions out of them?  I tried this on an earlier Great Book, and he felt overwhelmed and didn't really know what to discuss.  I have a book with some Socratic questions, do you use questions like that?

 

 

I wait for my kids to make the move. I do not force discussions on literature, and I do not use scripted questions. They seem fake to me, and my kids certainly would not take kindly to school type questions to which I already know the answer.

They tell me what they find interesting, and we simply have a conversation. Sometimes, the discussion arises spontaneously weeks later, when we are in the car. We do not discuss everything they read. Some things they simply... read.

 

I use Socratic questioning when I am teaching and when I am guiding my students towards discovering a certain concept, making a certain connection. But I do not use this approach with literature.

[EndOfOrdinary]

I do not know how artsy you student is, but drawing and diagramming the war with its significant battles is an enjoyable project. It could combine history, research, and writing. Instead of doing a standard report, he could PowerPoint the various campaigns with animations on a map and write summaries of the events, implications there in, and mistakes. This could just as easily be drawn freehand as well. The writing needn't be a standard report as long as he can show comprehension and analysis through complex sentence structure. There were a lot of important events in the war. He could easily write ten pages worth of blurbs (a paragraph or two each).

 

"I don't know" doesn't work in our house. It is fine to not know an answer, but you have to talk it out. We stop the GC, movie, audiobook or whatever and everything pauses till he is ready to discuss it in some way. Sometimes that is as simple as saying "I don't understand what she meant by ____. It seems like______ makes more sense. " or " I'm confused, did it happen like this_____?" No I don't knows. When I would get that answer I would respond with,"Well that is the great thing about homeschooling! You have plenty of time to think about it! Let me know when you are ready to talk about it." He would get to sit till he could articulate some form of thought.

 

I do use Socratic questions with my son as he is still young. He also likes knowing what to expect and the questions provide a framework for him to jump from. Once a question is going, it becomes conversational. However, it means I really need to study up as well so we can have a good conversation.

[hepatica]

This is a great book for teenagers. Thucydides can be read as an historian, but he is most often read as the "father" of political science. So this work raises great questions about power and justice and fairness and citizenship - just the kind of things adolescents are grappling with in their lives.  

 

Rather than asking what he thinks of the book in its entirety, I would ask him to focus on particular parts. The Melian Dialogue and Pericles funeral oration are great fodder for discussion and writing assignments. I would give some passages from one or both of these sections for textual analysis and discuss why the Melians don't submit: whether they are fools for not do giving in; how the Athenians justify their actions ("the strong do what they can, and the weak suffer what they must."); what is the relevance of the Melian's distinction between justice and self interest; who is responsible for the fate of the Melians etc….

 

You can also contrast the Melian dialogue to Pericles funeral oration. Here Pericles discusses what it means to be a citizen in a democracy. How do the ideals expressed here differ from the actions of the Athenians on Melos? Do the Athenians live up to these ideals? Do the requirements of citizenship change in times of war? All great questions.

 

These are often particularly interesting questions for teenagers because they often find themselves in unequal power relationships. They are old enough and smart enough to have ideas and ideals of their own, but they are still subject to the (often seemingly unlimited) authority of parents and teachers and others. They have to decide how much to stand up for what they believe in and whether they are willing to accept the consequences. 

 

This sort of assignment/discussion helps the younger student to understand why we are still reading Thucydides all these years later. 

[Hot Lava Mama]

This is a great book for teenagers. Thucydides can be read as an historian, but he is most often read as the "father" of political science. So this work raises great questions about power and justice and fairness and citizenship - just the kind of things adolescents are grappling with in their lives.  

 

Rather than asking what he thinks of the book in its entirety, I would ask him to focus on particular parts. The Melian Dialogue and Pericles funeral oration are great fodder for discussion and writing assignments. I would give some passages from one or both of these sections for textual analysis and discuss why the Melians don't submit: whether they are fools for not do giving in; how the Athenians justify their actions ("the strong do what they can, and the weak suffer what they must."); what is the relevance of the Melian's distinction between justice and self interest; who is responsible for the fate of the Melians etc….

 

You can also contrast the Melian dialogue to Pericles funeral oration. Here Pericles discusses what it means to be a citizen in a democracy. How do the ideals expressed here differ from the actions of the Athenians on Melos? Do the Athenians live up to these ideals? Do the requirements of citizenship change in times of war? All great questions.

 

These are often particularly interesting questions for teenagers because they often find themselves in unequal power relationships. They are old enough and smart enough to have ideas and ideals of their own, but they are still subject to the (often seemingly unlimited) authority of parents and teachers and others. They have to decide how much to stand up for what they believe in and whether they are willing to accept the consequences. 

 

This sort of assignment/discussion helps the younger student to understand why we are still reading Thucydides all these years later. 

 

Oh my.  Can I borrow your brain for a while?  I will return it once all my kids are through high school!  Thanks for the information.  I think I need to try to pre-read a portion before him so I can figure out how to discuss it with him.  Regentrude makes a good case about having a discussion rather than a set of standard questions.  Off to read!

:)

Thanks to everyone who gave such thoughtful answers.  I appreciate it!

Hot Lava Mama

 

 

[Connections]

Regentrude-

 

How many papers do your children end up writing each year in your integrated history and literature studies?

 

Thanks!

[regentrude]

Regentrude-

 

How many papers do your children end up writing each year in your integrated history and literature studies?

 

Thanks!

 

In 9th and 10th grade, DD wrote about a paper per month.