Bad Speller - What to do for Writing?

[UnsinkableKristen]

So, I have a question. We are currently doing WWE3 with my 4th grader. She does great with dictation and narration, however, her spelling is absolutely abysmal. I mean, she spells maybe at a 2nd grade level. She is ADHD, smart as a whip, but I am really struggling with how to do dictation or really any writing with her without harping on her spelling. And when we are stopping to spell every other word (I had to spell "could" and "would" for her), it really breaks up the flow of the dictation and she loses her place.  It's really frustrating for both of us and I don't want her to hate writing.  Her dad is a less than stellar speller, but can get by with spell check well enough.  What can I do for her? 

 

Is there another writing program that would be a better fit for a very poor speller? I could fit narration and easier to spell dictation in with our other subjects without a problem, so we wouldn't be dropping those skills.

[Farrar]

We use Brave Writer.  I'm not a big WWE fan anyway, but I think BW would definitely be a better fit for a poor speller.  One of my 4th grade ds is the same as you describe.  He's quite smart, he's a decent reader, good at math, on level for everything...  but his spelling makes one cringe.  We're slowly doing All About Spelling to remediate, but other than that, BW is our main language arts program.  It does include copywork and dictation and she has a lot of tips about how to make them work that I think are good for kids who are struggling spellers.

 

Since Partnership Writing came out, I've been telling people with kids the right age that I think it's a great way to get your feet wet with BW if you're interested.  It's less expensive and easier to use.  You can also buy individual issues of The Arrow, which contains the dictation, and that's a good way to see how she introduces those subjects.  And then if you were to like it, you could look at the more expensive Writer's Jungle, which is the longer book about how to teach the BW way.

[Lori D.]

A few things to bear in mind: spelling is a skill that often doesn't click until later for some people (age 10, 12, 14). And spelling and writing are processed in completely different areas of the brain, so simultaneous spelling and writing requires a simultaneous use of different brain areas that not everyone can juggle at a younger age -- some people never can. I just mention these things to help with patience and perseverance. ;)

 

 

With my own DS who struggled with spelling and writing (mild LDs in those areas), I quickly realized he could only focus on one subject at a time. So I had to decide what was most important with a lesson -- spelling or writing. I had to pick our focus; and if it was to focus on writing, then I had to find work-arounds so spelling didn't distract. I also had to add some additional practices and helps when we were doing spelling to help strengthen that weak area.

 

For the dictations, in advance, you might write on an index card each word from the day's passage that might be troublesome. Then, to help DD stay focused on where she is in the dictation, if she starts struggling with spelling a word, you can quietly lay that index card beside her so she can copy the word, and then move on with the dictation. I would only use this method at first and for a short while as the emergency stop-gap to help her get comfortable with being able to maintain the flow of her thoughts / memory / writing of the dictation passage.

 

The next step is to just have her spell the word however she can while writing the dictation and continue with the dictation so she doesn't lose her flow. Set the dictation aside for about 10 minutes so she has time to mentally "change gears" from writing-mode to spelling-mode, and then together go back and proof-edit the passage. This is really important for training students that ALL writing is a multi-step process, and correcting your spelling, punctation, sentence structure, etc., is a very critical step that must happen before the writing is "done".

 

Most students pour out writing -- and then think "Great! I'm done!" -- and are very frustrated when they have to go back and revise, or even proof-edit. So the sooner you can get your student into the mind-set that writing is a multi-step process, and that words just poured out onto a page doesn't mean they are done with that piece of writing. ;)

 

Finally, you may want to incorporate some additional special helps or practices into your spelling time, or as a second, shorter, supplemental session of spelling that would specifically target your DD's spelling needs. You didn't mention what you are using for spelling, but ADHD students are often highly visual-spatial, so you may want to try and to incorporate supplemental practice that helps your student with the sequential nature of spelling -- like out-loud back-and-forth spelling practice.

 

To help practice with a visual-spatial learner's strengths, use visual methods and stories to help show patterns of spelling in a way that embeds quickly into long-term memory. For example, I would write the word "meat" and "meet" on the white board with the vowel pairs in red to stand out; then tell a simple story and draw a picture around each word: "It takes 2 people to meet and greet [draw a stick figure each standing on an "e" in "meet", shaking hands], so there are two "e"s in "meet"." For "meat": "I LOVE to eat meat". [turn the "a" in meat into a heart]

 

Also, short dictation sentences towards the end of the week when the student is becoming familiar with their spelling words  can help a student practice simultaneous spelling and writing skills. Keep the sentences short -- about 6-7 words, with 3 spelling words in each, and a total of only 2 or 3 sentences. Make the other words (the non-spelling practice words) in the sentence simple words, or write them on the white board to have handy for the student to reference if needed. And have the student practice the sequential nature of spelling by saying the word and spelling it out loud letter-by-letter while writing it.

 

Specific practice ideas for struggling spellers:

- Dianne Craft's website -- visual spelling practice ideas

- Jeffrey Freed's Right Brain Children in a Left Brain World -- similar to Dianne Craft; techniques for middle school/high school -- visual picture methods go straight into long-term memory

- mnemonic and dictation techniques from Stevenson's Blue Spelling Book -- pictures and catchy short stories to embed vowel patterns into long-term memory

- Andrew Pudewa's Spelling and the Brain lecture -- explains the sequential nature of spelling, and how to strengthen that with oral spelling practice and recognizing "word family" patterns

 

 

Again, don't know what you are using for spelling -- or what your DD's specific spelling struggles are, but ADD, ADHD, Asperbergers and non-mathy students are often highly visual-spatial learners who process randomly and are weak in sequential processing, so the sequential requirement of correct spelling really throws them, and they may need a more visual memorization approach). These spelling programs are frequently mentioned as helpful for struggling spellers:

 

All About Spelling -- multi-sensory approach, which can be very beneficial for struggling spellers

Sequential Spelling -- gr. 4+; esp. designed for students with dyslexia, but for any student weak in sequential processing

Phonetic Zoo -- helps students who are strongly visual and weak in sequential processing *hear* spelling in sequential order

Barton and Orten-Gillingham approaches to reading/spelling

 

The Phonics Page -- WTM poster ElizabethB -- free phonics lessons (understanding phonics connects to correct spelling)

Spaulding -- built on learning set of phonograms; WTM poster Ellie is a helpful advisor in how to use it

Spell to Write and Read (Sanseri) -- somewhat similar to Spaulding -- also built on learning a set of phonograms

 

 

BEST of luck in finding what best helps your DD! Warmly, Lori D.

 

[UnsinkableKristen]

Thank you so much, that is very helpful!  I need to sit down and really go through all of this some more.  I appreciate the help!

[Lori D.]

Thank you so much, that is very helpful!  I need to sit down and really go through all of this some more.  I appreciate the help!

 

 

PS -- Forgot to add -- when doing full writing assignments:

 

When we did actual writing assignments, and were brainstorming or he was trying to come up with a key-word outline (either for a paragraph he was rewriting into his own words, or for writing a paragraph for science or history), I would do the writing as DS dictated. We would do that on the whiteboard, and then we talk through what his order should be, and then I'd give him the key-word outline he came up with on an index card, which helped him then flesh it out for his rough draft. We didn't worry about spelling for this "sloppy copy" (rough draft), and would work on fixing the spelling when we got to the revising and proofing stages.

 

By me being his "scribe" in the early stages of the writing assignment, and then NOT worrying about spelling for the "sloppy copy", it allowed DS to focus on thinking of what to say and didn't interrupt his thinking process the way it did when he was trying to simultaneously write & spell all on his own.

[Guest]

My 10 year old had really awful spelling until we started Apples and Pears this year.  It really works!  I wish I had tried it sooner instead of All About Spelling and Rod & Staff.  We use IEW, and really like it.  Her spelling is finally starting to improve in her writing assignments.

[jessj]

Oh... I have one of those 4th graders!  lol!  Although sometimes I think she can turn her spelling skills on and off!  Grr...

 

A little over a year ago, she had a little meltdown because her little sister can spell better than she can.  So I looked into spelling programs and I decided to try All About Spelling based on her learning style.  It worked.  It has improved her spelling a tremendous amount!  However, she still can't spell the dictation in WWE.  But, AAS has dictation in every lesson.  So she's doing it there, but it's not as challenging.  I'm kind of playing around with it still, but for WWE, I am not correcting spelling as she writes.  I will correct it after.  That way she can get it all down.  I have also found that getting it all down puts stress on her, and actually causes her to spell worse.  So it's a bit of a conundrum.  But we muddle through.  Some people certainly have a gift for spelling and others do not.  My kids are one of each. 

[MerryAtHope]

If you're going to do dictation outside of the spelling concepts and words she has mastered, consider making a word bank for her with a list of the words you know she will struggle with. However, I would try to choose selections with less difficult words, so that you only have a few per passage that she won't know. Pre-teach those that you know will be difficult for her. Do studied dictation for these types of passages, and only do "blind" dictation with passages that use words she has learned.

 

I used to let my kids read a passage: we would discuss why the punctuation and capitalization was there (they told me or I talked them through if they didn't know), and they pointed out words they thought they would struggle to spell. I would teach spelling concepts based on those words, and give a list if I thought some words were beyond them. Sometimes we also did French dictation, where some of the words are pre-printed, and they fill in blanks. Or sometimes all the words were there, but I had them add all punctuation or capitalization. There are lots of ways you can use these types of exercises to teach mechanics. Here's a blog entry on using copywork and dictation to teach mechanics.

 

For writing--I wouldn't focus on spelling at all. I would separate these skills or not work on writing (except oral writing) until spelling is better. Focus on the ideas she presents, organization, or other writing skills that are the point of the assignment. She isn't ready to put all of these skills together yet, so break things down into doable parts. If an assignment needs to be polished, then after she has done her rewrites and has the structure, details, creativity, expression and so forth in place, have her go through and mark any words she thinks she misspelled, and correct any that she thinks she can correct. This should be a separate LA time, not added work on the same day. Praise for anything she finds, and for anything she can correct--this is hard work for a struggling speller. Then, simply show her how to spell the other words and let her make a finished copy. I will say that for struggling spellers, this process is long, tiring, and discouraging, and tends to turn them off of writing. You'll get better mileage by working on spelling separately, and helping with these polished papers as much as possible for now.

 

All About Spelling turned things around for my kids. I found it easier to work on writing after Level 3. By then, they had mastered over 1000 common words, they had practiced gradually longer dictations, and had worked on sentence writing using a given list of words. The exercises in AAS helped prepare them for more outside writing, and the extreme resistance they used to show before greatly diminished. After finishing level 7 with my oldest, I rarely find spelling to correct, even with longer words we've never specifically studied, because it gave him the tools to know how to analyze and learn the word on his own. When I do find ones, we talk it through with what he's learned.

 

Anyway, hth some & hope you find some things that will help your dd! Merry :-)

 

 

[evansmom]

The reason AAS works so well for a lot of folks is because it teaches the PHONICS RULES! This is often overlooked and should be a key subject area for our kiddos. They need to refer back to the rules and use them to decipher words they read and spell.

Two good books to get are Spelling Through Phonics and A Sound Track to Reading. And don't wait! Start as early as you can.

Some good reinforcement for independent practice could be Merrill Phonics, Phonics Plus, or Phonics We Use.

Each child collects their phonics rules on index cards and keeps them in a cute box, 4x5 photo book or ring them together after hole punching them.

Good luck!