s/o job training/career or calling?

[kiana]

I think you would have gotten a lot fewer vigorous responses if you hadn't bolded the part about teaching piano and suggested that a world renowned concert pianist would have been a more appropriate goal. I absolutely do agree that focusing on a student's natural talent and inclination is imperative, but I still don't see why aiming for skill at giving piano lessons as well as just practicing the piano filled you with such horror.

 

As for "why dissuade a child from their field of study", I don't think people were suggesting *stopping* them from studying a field they loved as much as encouraging them to *also* study something practical. For example, a relative of mine studied a musical instrument (which she loved) and accounting as double majors. I have a friend who loves photography who took training as an auto mechanic, and does the photography on the nights, weekends, and days off. I have another friend who is substitute teaching because that is flexible enough for her to pursue her musical career. I have another friend who's obsessive about martial arts who does part-time work as an occupational therapy assistant. All of these people put their energy and their best time into their passions, but *also* found something else that they could handle doing which was employable.

[Brooketopia]

But again, I wasn;t writing about quitting jobs or never finishing school. I'm asking how we determine the relative value of diffferent studies. an MORE importantly why can't your calling be your job?

 

If your calling is to be a teacher, fine study and become a teacher. A nuclear physicist, same. Dr., attorney, architect, whatever. But why dissuade a child or young adult away from something they excell at for a more "practical" subjetc of study? Do we truly not "need" the arts and humanities?

--------------------

 

 

How do we determine the relative value of different studies

I think different people determine value in a myriad of ways, but the most understood/most widely accepted determining factor would be monetary value. It’s an individual decision how to value an area of study. I imagine that someone who has worked through slop and sludge to put food on the table will scorn the starry-eyed teenager who thinks love and talent will pay the bills.

 

I grew up as the child of a father who didn’t finish high school, but is one of the smartest people I know, and a mother who finished high school and also had a secretarial certificate. My father couldn’t get a job outside of incredibly dangerous occupations that kept him away from home for weeks at a time, and my mother was able to support us after the divorce on her secretarial wages. My grandmother was a vocalist, highly sought after in our area when she was young, so she didn’t go on to higher education. She’s now a 70 year old bartender, bitter with the world for not loving her once she got older and her voice withered. These people are all at the mercy of their employers because they have no bargaining chips whatsoever because of the decisions they made as teenagers.

 

Why can’t your calling be your job?

No one’s saying it can’t be your job, just that the lower-paying “callings†probably won’t pay the bills. No one wants to send their child out into the world to live in poverty. Many of us have been there; it’s one thing to choose to not have an XXXX square foot house and no smart phones or internet, and it’s another to not even have the choice, should you desire that thing.

 

Not being able to pay the bills or live as you so desire invites boatloads of contention into one’s life; contention and frustration that can destroy marriages and cause abuse to self, spouse and/or offspring. The stress of not having enough money can make people do desperate things. I will not intentionally send my children off into the world with an education that, in majority of cases, will not provide the lifestyle they would like for themselves.

 

Why dissuade a child or young adult away from something they excel at for a more practical subject of study?

I will never dissuade my child from something they excel at, unless I perceive that it’s a negative attribute. (I danced well as a teenager, and was actually encouraged by my mother and grandmother to consider exotic dancing to pay the bills when I got older…yeah, not going to encourage that in my daughters.)

 

If I had a child going to school to study art, music, dance…something along those lines, I’d encourage them to double major and study another field that interested them, but had a more optimistic outlook, employment-wise. I believe that we are sent to Earth with various callings, spiritual gifts, and/or missions (whatever you want to call them), and I also believe that God expects us to learn wisdom in this lifetime. Faith is good and all, but I think God smiles upon the person that can help themselves and not become a financial drain on the local religious community.

 

I met a girl the other day. She had been homeschooled, but was now in her early twenties. She can’t get into college because her homeschooling education didn’t prepare her well enough to satisfy the local universities’ admission requirements, and she can’t get a job because she spent her teenage years training to become a mother and a Christ-like servant. So now she’s completely stuck. I don’t know why she wasn’t living at home, but she’s not and therefore requires her local church to pay her bills so she doesn’t end up on the street. What benefit did her parents give her by allowing her to pursue her perceived calling? She is completely at the mercy of the compassion of her church members, and whatever man should decide to marry her in the future. When you’re in a boat like that, you can get pretty desperate. I do not envy that girl at all, and pray fervently that my own children will never encounter such a situation themselves.

 

I don’t see a big difference between her and her non-married situation, and that of a minimally-educated girl who marries young and has a husband to take care of her. Things happen. It is wisdom to be prepare for the worst, while making the most of, and enjoying, the good.

 

My own husband was diagnosed with kidney disease a few years ago and his health has suffered because of it. Now, if he had gone on to pursue his artistic passion alone, instead of his engineering degree, we’d be screwed. As it is, he got an education in a field where he can still show up to work in low health and do his job and receive his wages. I also have a degree, which I may have to use should his health deteriorate to the point that he can no longer work. We’re not talking divorce, him beating me, or him dying—we’re talking the normal consequences of aging. I double majored in Vocal Performance and History Teaching. I’ve never taught in a “real†classroom, but I could if I needed to do so. I could also give voice lessons. I do not fear for the future, should the really bad stuff that threatens to happen does in deed happen.

 

Do we not need the arts and humanities?

Arts and humanities are good, beautiful things. That being said, I do not consider them a higher priority than basic necessities. My children will finish their math, reading and writing before they can paint, sculpt or do music. Period.

 

What it boils down to, for me, is my best judgment. God has given it to man that he may judge for himself. I am not supposed to judge others’ actions and deeds and decide that they are horrible people, but I am allowed to look at what people are doing and decide if that’s something I’d like for myself. The majority of people I know who get their GEDs/don’t finish high school/pursue art as a living—the majority of them live lives I don’t want for myself or my children. The majority of people I know who got engineering/teaching/medical degrees and pursued careers in those fields—I judge their lives to be more in line with what I want for myself and my children. So I push that.

 

I can’t force my children to become something I want them to become, but I do get to make decisions that I believe will be best for them as long as they are legally under my stewardship. I have experiences they do not have; wisdom they have not yet acquired, and you can bet your patootie that I will wield all my powers to steer them towards what I perceive is the best possible path for each of them individually.

 

If I end up with a child who wants to paint and that is the only thing they are interested in doing, I will celebrate that because it is special to have that talent. I will find them the best teachers and supply them with the highest quality materials that I can procure—but, they will have to finish their work before they can play.

 

If I end up with a child who wants to create robots and build bridges and trebuchets in the backyard, I will find them the resources—but also only after they finish ALL their school work, arts and humanities included. An engineer should be able to understand literature and know how to adequately write, just as a painter should know how to compute and test hypotheses. I won't push my math-phobic painter to advanced levels of Calculus, because it's not needed for them, just as I wouldn't push my humanities-loathing engineer to attend an intensive summer-long drama camp, because it isn't needed for them either.

[cavscout96]

I want to be perfectly clear.... I am NOT questioning anyone else's commitment, only relaying my OWN view. This is where I draw my own view on 'practicality' and the expectations of the 'world.'. Call me a dreamer or a fool, but this is one of my favorite passages and one from which I draw a great deal of peace:

 

 

Matthew 6:25-34

 

Do Not Be Anxious

 

25 “Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27 And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life? 28 And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin, 29 yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31 Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

 

34 “Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I want to be perfectly clear.... I am NOT questioning anyone else's commitment, only relaying my OWN view. This is where I draw my own view on 'practicality' and the expectations of the 'world.'. Call me a dreamer or a fool, but this is one of my favorite passages and one from which I draw a great deal of peace:

 

 

Matthew 6:25-34

 

Do Not Be Anxious

 

25 “Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27 And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life? 28 And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin, 29 yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31 Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

 

34 “Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

 

As a fellow Christian I also draw peace from this passage and am thankful that our educational goals do not cause anxiety or lack of faith. I also like these verses, which are not in contradiction of the above:

 

2 Peter 1:5-8

 

King James Version (KJV)

 

⁵ And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

⁶ And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

⁷ And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

⁸ For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

Kind of a nice educational mission statement, isn't it? Christianity is not anti-education; in fact, the main reasons men work, are to provide for their families and to give to those who are in need. (See the Apostle Paul on that.) Which they can't do if they are working at McDonalds as adults because they spent their years when they could have been learning to support themselves and others in neglecting basic education and only following their own personal bliss.

 

When a person of any age eschews this world's goals and values to follow Jesus and serve Him, that's a very Christian thing to do. But this is the first time in this thread you have identified "passion" or "talent" as choosing a religious ministry. Even for those who do choose a life as a clergy person or missionary, I'm still failing to see how a high school education (or beyond) is at all in the way of that desire.

[cavscout96]

Actually, I started with the term "calling."

 

The inference being what a person is called to do, by God, using their physical, mental, or spiritual gifts, not eschewing education for personal bliss.

 

I hesitated to posted the scripture because I did not want this to become a battle over which scripture is more or less right or relevant. It is merely my personal source of solace when things aren't necessarily going my way (maybe better stated as the way I thought they should go)

 

I will not continue the scriptural debate, but will say that I believe a fair portion of folks forsake their calling for what others deem more practical. I've done it in the past, and I'm not condemning people for their perspective. Just trying to have a discussion and see if I'm the only one who's noticed the 'trend' for lack of a better term.

 

Clearly many do not see it the same way, and all of the responses have been very pragmatic. I'm just sating that maybe pragmatism is overrated.

[kiana]

But why does preparing oneself for the worst-case scenario *have* to involve utterly forsaking a calling? Why can it not involve searching for ways to pursue what one is called to do and still be able to put food on the table? Why cannot we have a mix of pragmatism and romanticism instead of pure romanticism?

[cavscout96]

I never said it was a binary equation, just observing that teh general consensus appears to be weighted heavily on the side of pragmatism.

[Shahrazad]

I can see both sides but personally, I wish I'd been given a heavier dose of realism growing up. I've had 2 real callings (and they were perfectly legitimate and something that WOULD be successful, not a 'one in a million' chance of success) and circumstances of life have prevented me from being able to truly fulfill either. Both times it was seriously heartbreaking and I'm still working on getting over and accepting the latter disappointment. I was always told that I could do anything and I should follow what I felt called to do so that is what I did, no one had the guts to tell me that my current situation did not allow for this to work out for me and now I'm having to pursue something else that is more practical and not what I feel a strong desire to do. The fall would've been a lot easier if I hadn't gotten so emotionally invested.