Crying during subjects she's GOOD at!?

[Jay3fer]

:sad: This is not exactly new, but it is driving me crazy and making me sad and also rubbing off on others around here, and so - must stop.

 

Two subjects seem to be the main problem:

• She cries during math - she's good at math. I thought it was because the pages in her new third-grade book looked overwhelming to her so I switched to Singapore and she loves it... but still cries.
  
• She cries during Hebrew Bible reading - another thing she's pretty good at. I mean, it's hard, but once she gets going, she is showing real improvement AND seems very proud of how much she's learned.
  

These are the main ones. She'll whine about copywork or other things when she's overwhelmed, and there may be tears, but these are the two big tearjerkers.

 

I have tried changing the time of day when we do these subjects: first thing in the morning, warm up with other subjects first, first thing after lunch... you name it. I've tried incentives like breaks beforehand, snacks beforehand, water break, small reward on each page (she gets to ask me one of her incessant questions about something totally unrelated!), whatever. With the math, I have tried more manipulatives, fewer manipulatives, more practice, less practice... argh.

 

Yet in both subjects, the books seem to be working with her learning style, she is progressing and to some extent "enjoying" her new knowledge. So I'm worried that the problem is me... that there's something in me and my attitude that is making her cry. Like I'm scaring her or pressuring her...? These are certainly her two most important subjects, in my opinion.

 

Are we in some kind of weird "stress spiral"? How can I convey a more laid-back approach ( :chillpill: ) while still getting these subjects done?

 

Really, any suggestions for crying would be helpful... before I end up being the next one in tears. :crying:

[Lori D.]

No expert, but... I think I'd start with biological causes/solutions first.

 

1. Get enough sleep. Exhaustion can be the cause of a lot of whining and crying. Does your DD:

- Go to bed at a reasonable hour?

- Actually sleep well through the night?

- Need more physical exercise each day to be able to fall asleep soundly at night?

- Have an imbalance or need of melatonin or other to help sleep well?

- Need a rest period after lunch to restore energy?

 

 

2. Protein snacks to keep blood sugar level. Several times through the morning serve small snacks:

- peanutbutter on celery sticks

- cheese and crackers

- scrambled egg

- cottage cheese

- a handful of nuts

- a meat kebab -- cooked mini meatball, chicken, shrimp or fish

- chicken nuggets (bits of chicken breast met, dipped in olive oil and Worcestershire sauce, rolled in dry bread crumbs and grated parmesan and baked)

- salted edamame (soybeans)

 

Dispensing in a itty-bitty "snack cup", or having them tricycle up to the backdoor for "take out", or "purchasing" at a cardboard box turned into a "snack stand" makes healthy snacks more enjoyable. Eat AS you do the math problems: "For each problem we finish, we get 3 peanuts..."

 

 

3. Getting enough exercise.

Start the day with a family brisk walk around the neighborhood, races of different types up and back to the corner, hopping around the house on big bouncy ball or on a mini-trampoline. Then insert a 5 minute hopping game, vigorous dancing to upbeat music or other physical activity as soon as the face contorts to try and cry.

 

 

If all else fails, try breaking the offending subjects into smaller "bites" so it doesn't seem so overwhelming that wails and gnashing of teeth are triggered -- 10 minutes of math (or 4 problems), then do something else, then come back for 10 minutes to the math, and then do something else, then back to the math to finish.

 

I don't think it's you -- sounds like you've bent over backwards to be helpful and accommodating. I'd be careful about doing too much more and turning this a big production and into a habit on DD's part. If biological helps don't seem to be helping, then DD may be moving into a type of OCD-like pattern, and at that point, you just want to get very matter of fact and calmly guide DD to her bed, "When you have have calmed down and have control, we can finish." Sometimes, removing the audience (you and/or siblings) makes the behavior no fun to continue. Sometimes seeing that pitching a fit does not get you out of it makes the behavior go away.

 

 

BEST of luck in figuring out what's at the root of the crying! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Mommy to monkeys]

Those are the EXACT 2 subjects that my daughters cries during! (not everyday) And yes, she's very good at them too. . .and I don't think we're doing too much. We do one math lesson and Hebrew for 10 minutes each day. Hebrew made her cry this morning. (She kept pronouncing the vav instead of pronouncing it as the cholem vav) I think it's because although she's good at those subjects, they ARE mentally challenging. For us I think that because we're homeschooling, so much of our learning is fun and seemingly effortless. When things AREN'T easy. . .they get frustrated.

 

I have done along the lines of what Lori D. suggested. . .have her go sit down and calm down. . .then continue.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Lori's advice, as usual, is excellent. Have you listened to SWB's lecture on Homeschooling the Real Child? She talks about a whole bunch of techniques for getting through rough patches like this. It might offer some insight. :grouphug:

[MinivanMom]

We have had the same problem with math in the past. It has helped to make sure that both kids are:

- getting adequate sleep

- have eaten a good breakfast

- do math first before they become tired or frustrated by other subjects

- aren't pushed to work for too long (we have limited math to 30 min at this point)

 

The only thing that has cured it, though, is to tell them that they are good at math and working ahead of grade level. I thought they could read the number on the front of the book. I thought they realized that they were moving through the material quickly. I thought it should mean something to them that they were getting all or nearly all the problems correct. Unfortunately, they have never been to school so they do not have that kind of background knowledge. All they knew was that everyday they worked hardest and did the most critical thinking in math. The only subject where they were ever told, "This is wrong," (even in a kind manner) was math. They needed me to explain that they were working ahead of kids their age and that they were actually doing a very good job. They needed more acknowledgement and praise of their hard work. It hasn't solved it completely, but it has made a huge difference. I can't remember the last time we had tears.

[Lori D.]

PS -- forgot the most important part:

 

:grouphug: Hugs and encouragement for YOU and for having patience as you work through this rough patch! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[acsnmama]

I have the same issue, in fact, my son is a math wiz, but the whining is annoying. It's just that he doesn't want to do school work at all some of the time, so it's not the subject, it's the fact that he doesn't want to do "school work." Yet other days, he begs to do Math. I'll definitely take into consideration the responses here! Good info!

[redsquirrel]

I went through a very rough patch with my younger boy this autumn. In his case it was all subjects.

 

The first thing I did was take a break from the most fraught subjects. Just a week to break the habits of yelling, crying, etc that were being set. I just focused on doing what was going well so we could remember what it felt like to work well together.

 

Have you spoken to your daughter when you are both feeling relaxed and happy? Does she have any insight as to why she is crying? Is it because it is 'hard'? Then what part is hard? For my son I often act as his scribe, writing down his answers. That took a lot of pressure off him and made a lot of things easier. For math I actually resorted to a blatant bribe. I posted about it in a thread titled 'this is just pathetic'. If my son got through math without arguing I would give him one mini-marshmallow. That lasted about two weeks and then he sort of forgot about it.

 

We talked a lot about choosing our moods. My son told me he decided to be in a pleasant mood for an entire week. I told him I would settle for the 30 mins we need for math.

 

I took some responsibility for the problem. I apologized for losing my temper when I did so. I made a plan for when I felt my own frustrations rise and I told him what my plan was. When i was having to use my plan I told him. I said things like "I am starting to feel frustrated right now, so I am going to go upstairs for a few moments. You haven't done anything wrong, I am doing this because this is my plan for dealing with feeling frustrated. I'll be back in a moment." It did help. We also made a plan for him. It was very helpful for him to learn to identify the feelings he was having and how he was choosing to act on them. It was good for him to learn that his response is a choice.

 

Mostly I just opened a dialogue with him and really listened to him.I tried some things to make him happier and some things to make me happier. I figure I am playing the long game. There are going to be many, many more 'rough spots' in our work together as teacher and student and as parent and child. I needed us to work through this with some grace and kindness for each other to set the pattern for later difficulties.

 

FWIW, things did get much, much better. For about a month there were lots of 'new' ways of doing things but now we are back to doing school the way we traditionally have done so, only without the fighting. Whatever it was that he was going through seems to have retreated for the present time. So know that even if you make some major overhauls it might end up being temporary.

[Jay3fer]

Thank you, all, for this amazing encouragement and your great suggestions.

 

Some ideas I plan to incorporate right away:

- midmorning snacks (some mornings we get started so late I don't bother... but maybe I should)

- positive feedback

- listen to SWB's lecture on Homeschooling the Real Child (I was meaning to do this anyway; it's on my PHP "wishlist"!)

- ask and listen to her answers

- movement and exercise - well, that's a tough one in a 9-square-food living space with winter, winter all around outdoors... we really DO have to get outside more.

 

Thanks once again!!

[redsquirrel]

On the weekends I bake 2 or 3 dozen muffins and boil at least one dozen eggs. My kids respond very, very well to my bringing them each a small plate with a muffin and an egg and maybe some juice or hot cocoa. It really is the work of a moment and it makes things much more pleasant. I am always amazed at how much my kids can eat during school hours. They don't eat much later in the day, but it is clear that that they have a 'hungry time'.

 

I also think that for bright kids it can feel overwhelming when they actually have to work at a subject. This comes up a lot with my older son. He is very, very bright and things come to him easily. However, that means he has no coping mechanism for when subjects require effort. In about the 4th grade he would just fall apart when he was challenged academically. We did a lot of talking about how that feeling is normal and he shouldn't panic. We talked about what productive work looks like versus just spinning his wheels getting no where, and when to ask for help. We talked about how to move through the frustration and keep working because that is where the learning is.

 

My younger son has some motor delays and speech difficulties, but is just as quick as his brother. He has had so many years of having to work hard to master basic physical skills that when things are difficult academically he doesn't panic in quite the same way.

[Chrysalis Academy]

On the weekends I bake 2 or 3 dozen muffins and boil at least one dozen eggs. My kids respond very, very well to my bringing them each a small plate with a muffin and an egg and maybe some juice or hot cocoa. It really is the work of a moment and it makes things much more pleasant. I am always amazed at how much my kids can eat during school hours. They don't eat much later in the day, but it is clear that that they have a 'hungry time'.

 

I also think that for bright kids it can feel overwhelming when they actually have to work at a subject. This comes up a lot with my older son. He is very, very bright and things come to him easily. However, that means he has no coping mechanism for when subjects require effort. In about the 4th grade he would just fall apart when he was challenged academically. We did a lot of talking about how that feeling is normal and he shouldn't panic. We talked about what productive work looks like versus just spinning his wheels getting no where, and when to ask for help. We talked about how to move through the frustration and keep working because that is where the learning is.

 

My younger son has some motor delays and speech difficulties, but is just as quick as his brother. He has had so many years of having to work hard to master basic physical skills that when things are difficult academically he doesn't panic in quite the same way.

 

For us, it is the slice of cheese that saves the day- you are getting melty? Go eat a slice of cheese! Instant energy and calmness.

 

In one of SWB's lectures, she talks about how her mother had 3 solutions to drama: eat a sandwich, take a shower, or take a nap.

 

I will also say that the bold describes my dd to a T. We have worked very hard on determined, persistent problem-solving. We have lists of problem solving steps on the bulletin board above her desk; and I make sure to complement her (not during dramas, but other times) on her diligence and persistence in sticking with a problem (rather than her success at solving it). It's been slow, but the difference in a year is phenomenal. You just have to start wherever they are, which can be really tough.