IEW unit one- how long to linger?

[Writerdaddy]

Hi there,

 

I am just starting IEW with 3rd graders, (2nd day!) and doing keyword outlines.

It's harder than it looks. I've been stepping down the reading level of source text and seems like there is no too low at this point. I was wondering how long people stay on unit one when its not clicking yet.

 

By not clicking I mean they pick random words sometimes that don't capture the idea of a sentence, and then when speaking back from their outline they have something completely different than the source.

 

I am modelling and suggesting, and like I said stepping down reading level and then hopefully climbing back up.

 

I have the Student Intensive A but will not crack that open till they can follow along with the first lesson, which they cannot right now.

 

Any thoughts on how long to linger at step one?

 

thanks!

 

ps

 

Overall, I am very impressed with the IEW program and although I think a kid can and should outgrow it, it is chock full of great ideas and tips and tricks and ideas and is exactly what I was looking for. So that's my quick, first look review. I can see already that it is not the end all be all of writing by any means.

[5LittleMonkeys]

Based on my experience with my own dc and those I teach, I would recommend spending no more than 2 weeks working on taking key words and then verbally retelling from those notes. Your dc will continue to hone the skill of choosing the best words throughout the next several units.

 

One of the most effective strategies I've found in getting them to understand the importance of word choice is to go sentence by sentence. They will suggest three words and then retell verbally as i write it down. We will look at the original sentence and see if they came close to the original topic. If not I ask them to think of what words would have better helped them remember what the sentence was about. This is where we start talking about nouns and verbs/ what is happening and who is doing it, a lot.

 

Some dc pick this up quickly, and some take a little longer. Keeping the reading level below that of the student's ability will help them cement this more quickly.

Don't get in a rush but don't get stuck here either. For 3rd grade you will want to spend about 6 to 8 weeks on units 1 and 2.

[boscopup]

This is what the outline test is for. If they can't figure out what they were trying to remember with the keywords they chose, you go back and choose better ones. Then they see how much easier it is to remember the point of that sentence. Also, when reading out loud, I might put some emphasis on some good keywords, modeling the choice. If he picks something like "the", I encourage him to find a different word. ;)

 

It does take some practice, but there are several assignments to practice on. I definitely agree with lowering the reading level of the passages if you need to. Good job recognizing that.

 

In SWI-A, Units 1 and 2 last 6 lessons, IIRC, which is 12 weeks by their schedule! I skipped some assignments with my son, so we didn't spend 12 weeks on it. But we probably spent about 8 weeks, maybe? I gave a LOT of help in the beginning. Now, my son can pick out keywords on his own pretty easily.

 

Some people find that their 3rd graders aren't ready for IEW, but they are ready in 4th grade. So if you continue to struggle after doing it a few weeks or so, you may just set it aside and wait 6 months or a year for maturity to happen.

[Jim]

We started our 3rd grader with SWI-A. Ds enjoyed the video, with AndrewP doing the teaching. Of course we lended assistance as needed but the videos are engaging, short, and can be watched again.

 

The kwo hangs around for quite awhile so it will be constantly reviewed. That allows you to move ahead after a couple weeks at most.

 

If you put the program aside make sure to include a good amount of narration in you week to help with this skill. I though WWE dovetailed IEW well. Perhaps that would be a bridge.

 

I'd unwrap the video and try watching it. If you bought it from IEW the return policy will still be in effect.

 

Jim

[Writerdaddy]

Thanks for your replies and the various perspectives which circle around the same points.

 

This is all helpful-- just trying to get a feel for experiences and insights which I can have in the back of my mind as I go forward.

 

I'm definitely not returning anything. I like the SWI videos and think the kids will too, but they need to be up to speed with the older kids in the videos (even using the pause button a lot) for the best experience. That will take a couple weeks at least.

 

On the level of SWI-A, I think it is pitched at 4th grade if you think of it as a plug and play, sit back and let the TV teach, smooth sailing type of program. But level A seems just right for a challenge for 3rd graders who are getting personalized assistance and thus learning a ton.

 

I feel that the keywords exercise is great for reading comprehension too, and for getting a real good feel for the workings of grammar and sentence structure. For that reason, I do want them to start getting at the heart of the possible meanings of sentences and to not randomly spin off of them. But, I can totally understand the other approach: just letting them do what they will, as after all they are still making and building meaning and perhaps that's a great way for them to connect with writing and the program, and will evolve later-- kind of like the difference between CM narration and WTM narration.

 

It all has to do with short and longer term goals and I have some short term goals for various reasons and think its totally doable to learn this skill. I'm sure I'll have lots of questions about this and other parts of the program so thanks again and in the future too.

Edited November 7, 2012 by Writerdaddy

[Pen]

Thanks for your replies and the various perspectives which circle around the same points.

 

This is all helpful-- just trying to get a feel for experiences and insights which I can have in the back of my mind as I go forward.

 

I'm definitely not returning anything. I like the SWI videos and think the kids will too, but they need to be up to speed with the older kids in the videos (even using the pause button a lot) for the best experience. That will take a couple weeks at least.

 

On the level of SWI-A, I think it is pitched at 4th grade if you think of it as a plug and play, sit back and let the TV teach, smooth sailing type of program. But level A seems just right for a challenge for 3rd graders who are getting personalized assistance and thus learning a ton.

 

I feel that the keywords exercise is great for reading comprehension too, and for getting a real good feel for the workings of grammar and sentence structure. For that reason, I do want them to start getting at the heart of the possible meanings of sentences and to not randomly spin off of them. But, I can totally understand the other approach: just letting them do what they will, as after all they are still making and building meaning and perhaps that's a great way for them to connect with writing and the program, and will evolve later-- kind of like the difference between CM narration and WTM narration.

 

It all has to do with short and longer term goals and I have some short term goals for various reasons and think its totally doable to learn this skill. I'm sure I'll have lots of questions about this and other parts of the program so thanks again and in the future too.

 

I suggest you let the kids listen to the first exercise on SWI-A without assuming they are not up to it. Also, as I recall, in one place a child gives a word Andrew does not find useful and he makes another suggestion.

 

I also think that going sentence by sentence, child narrating each back after choosing keywords is helpful. On the Pillbugs one, where I shared the outline words, we used highlighter tape instead of underlining. Then I took the paper and read back the keywords to him, and he narrated to me. Highlighter tape is nice if you are using a library book or something else you don't want to mark up, and it easily allows changing key word choice.

 

I think I am in a minority here in that I think sticking with each stage until that seems pretty easy makes sense rather than trying to build on more and more without a sturdy foundation.

[Writerdaddy]

Yes I do want them to feel confident and that it is easy. That is why I will work on unit 1 and 2 a bit with custom materials and use all these suggestions from the forum to transition into SWI-A when I am sure they are ready. I agree that you should start out strong and grounded and unconfused. Of course, one could linger too long too, so it's great to sound that out here.

 

At this point, I think they will be ready at some point soon. Unit 1 is not really that hard-- you just have to "get it" including what the point of it is and what you are being asked to do. The kids dont quite get what they are being asked to do. Once they do know, they will be able to comply easily, I think. And this can be built up from easy materials.

 

I have watched the videos and also did one-on-one work with the kids and know that they would be basically copying along mechanically with Andrew P rather than really processing it. Instead, I will start SWI-A when the beginning of the video is easy, and it is all familiar and review. Then at some point SWI-A will get into new territory, be challenging, but they have momentum and like the program and feel confident.

 

Also I want them to be watching Andrew P for quite a while to come, so i dont want to spoil the first "meeting" with it being hard.

 

Pretty sure this will work!