Another Math Placement Question

[Pamela H in Texas]

I know there are a lot of these lately....

 

I'm second (fifth, twentieth) guessing our math.

 

DD was going to take Calc I at the community college, followed by Calc II. These were actually going to be her concurrent, not dual enrollment classes. Anyway, but I'm nervous about it. I haven't been a lot of help with math this past year and though she's done Lial's and LoF and Aleks for the upper levels, I'm still just......worried.

 

I talked to her and she thinks that taking PreCalc then Calc I would be easier, not necessary, but fine. Hmmmm

 

It's just that her math scores on the placement test weren't as high as I would have liked. It seems that solidifying any lingering issues may be a good thing before moving on.

 

I know she's probably the only child on earth that has to take every math courses 3 times (literally), but I just want to make sure she HAS it. And it seems like this is a good time as 1) it's her first semester at college and 2) she's young so there is no hurry and 3) she's doing an engineering major so needs it.

 

Am I holding her back or is this a good idea?

 

Golly, I wish they'd just let her sign up for classes (high schoolers have a certain day to do it) so I'd quit WORRYING!

[Jane in NC]

 

It's just that her math scores on the placement test weren't as high as I would have liked. It seems that solidifying any lingering issues may be a good thing before moving on.

 

 

 

Hi Pamela,

 

She placed into Calculus, right? When you say that the scores were not "as high as (you) would have liked", do you mean that she was at the cut off?

 

As a Calculus teacher, I prefer seeing students who are not bogged down by algebraic or trigonometric issues. Sure students can work through some of these problems, but algebraic issues detract from the subject at hand, Calculus.

 

In NC, concurrent enrollment and dual enrollment are one and the same. What do you mean when you write: "These were actually going to be her concurrent, not dual enrollment classes"? She is a high school student, right?

 

Maybe more information will enlighten.

 

Cheers,

Jane

[Pamela H in Texas]

Her scores did qualify her for Calculus.

The algebra sub-section was passing, just not HIGH (other subsections were 88+%)

At our college, dual enrollment student is to get both high school and college credit.

Concurrent enrollment is not to be used for high school credit.

I called her maths: Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II with Trig

She has used 2-3 programs for each.

 

Jane, another question....Is Calculus the same kind of developmental step that Algebra is? Or not really?

[Mom-to-three-sons]

We were told we had to wait until our sons were 16 (also local comm college).

 

I am not sure what your longterm plans are. I also know that most of the time the more difficult courses are easier to digest as they get older. You may have one of those daughters who just excells. If not, I'm not sure why you would worry so about calculus I at age 15. I am not trying to put down any of your plans, just trying to understand because the information you submitted doesn't address background..etc.

 

At our community college, Trig and Pre-Cal are both options. Trig is a much more time-consuming course, and the kids I know who have had it say it is much more difficult than Pre-Cal. HOWEVER, Trig is often recognized as a transferrable credit, whereas Pre-Cal is not. IF you were to go that direction, you might consider that.

 

My sons were much older than your daughter when I finally tested them and put them in college. I wish I had done much differently than I had with them. After completing Foerster's Algebra I (which is like Alg I and II in most other curriculum) they each tested into Pre-Cal or Trig. They had no trouble doing the work. They made A's. One son had some of the highest grades in the class, and he was accepted into one of our country's military academies - yes, with limited math. I believe it was his SAT scores and his college credit work that got him in - academically; he had many other achievements in three extra-curricular fields. They were very ready, but the were older than your daughter!

 

If your daughter has had a strong math background, if she has MASTERED Algebra I, Algebra II, Geometry and Trigonometry...why hold her back? What is the worst that can happen? Personally, I can't imagine doing the Calculus that young. We don't live in highly populated cities, but out of our two sister cities in all the years I have home - schooled, I have only heard of ONE boy who did advanced math at such an early age. At the same time, if she IS ready and you hold her back, that is not any better than pushing her ahead before she is ready. Whether or not your daughter is ready for this challenge is something only you (and her father, and God, IMHO) can answer.

 

If it doesn't turn out so well, it won't be the end of the world. Also remember that, on campus, they have access to a math lab every day! They can get help from a number of sources...and whether at home or at college, she will still take math, right? Why not lighten your load if you can't really help her much further anyway? and see what she can do?

 

Have you asked around to find out - maybe from other mothers of HS children who have taken Cal I (or whichever course you decide on) - to see if the teacher(s) teaching the class in question have a reputation of being good teachers? My oldest son and my middle son both had the best teacher for Pre-Cal, but my oldest had an unorganized, English graduate - not a Math major of any form, as his Cal I teacher. He ended up with a B; he could have made an A, but he said he was never so proud of a B in his life! I'm sorry this is long. I hope this helps some, as I remember being where you are - even though mine were older - and just worrying...when it was pointless, in hindsight.

[threetreasurs]

"as I remember being where you are - even though mine were older - and just worrying...when it was pointless, in hindsight."

 

Been there!:iagree:

 

[Pamela H in Texas]

Thanks for your insights Mom-to-three-boys....

 

Like I said in my other post, we're NOT in a hurry which is why taking a lower class would be perfectly acceptable in my eyes. At the same time, if it isn't really necessary, then why spend the money and time. So I keep waffling. :) Of course, she has a fairly solid math background (more than one program per level including Lials which is well known for being solid). I just want to be SURE.

 

As for age, here a student must have finished 10th grade. My daughter has a fall birthday so will turn 16 after school starts. As for transferability, I'm not as worried about because the first math needed for her major is Calculus so whether she takes it in Spring or fall won't matter much.

 

I just want her to be successful.....next semester and long term. And I'm a worrier by nature :)

[LoriM]

Pam,

 

If I were her mom, I'd recommend starting at PreCalculus. Here's why...college courses MOVE. Fast. Even if she is a great student, with strong math skills, if she is taking other courses concurrently (as in, at the same time, since I don't care whether she's getting high school or college credit for them--LOL) then she can use the time to learn pacing and class management skills while reviewing a comfortable math. If she does have any weak areas, then she'll have the chance to plug those holes before moving on into Calc.

 

I've said it before...my dd finished Calc I at home, then "started over" at College Algebra at the CC. It was a GREAT review, and since she was only 16 years old at the time, it certainly didn't put her behind. Instead, she's a college senior (in hours) with a 4.0, and majoring in math (as well as art). I think if I'd pushed her on ahead into Calc II without that review time she would not have chosen math as a major.

 

HTH,

 

Lori

 

~~~~~~~~

Homeschooling DD, 15, soon to be at the CC (Jan 09)

Wife of soon-to-be retired DH, USAF 22 years, 8 days! (August 16, 2008)

Full time Classical Christian school teacher, 6-8th Math and Science