Calculus: Jumping into CC vs. doing it at home

[Jenn in CA]

OK, I've had this nice math plan laid out... we would do up thru pre-calculus at home, then take calculus at the community college (dh teaches at the community college).

 

Ds15 (rising 10th gr) is supposed to hit pre-calc this fall, but he works very slowly (but thoroughly!)... he took 1.5 hrs. to do half a Saxon Algebra II lesson. He finished algebra II this past Feb. So, I open up the Saxon Advanced Math book and it says to spend 1.5-2 years on it!

 

I really don't think he'll be able to keep up. I don't want him spending 2-4 years on pre-calc (if he continues at half-pace)! I'm open to switching programs but what if we still have the same problem where he has to work at half-pace?

 

He could take pre-calc in one semester at the cc... but that will be really fast-paced too. So, I'm wondering how wise it would be to throw him into calculus for his first college math class? He's already taking cc classes, but the first one was very easy, and this semester they should be easy too (programming and freshman English comp).

 

I guess calc is a few years away... anyone have BTDT experience with doing calculus at home *and* in college, or just at the college? BTW we're looking at engineering calc.

 

And any suggestions for getting him to work faster? He likes math and gets it, but he's just so slow, and I'm not sure why... he does stare off into space some; if I say "do math for 1 hour" he would do 4-6 problems, but if I say "You must complete 1/2 a lesson" he will do 15 problems in 1.5 hrs and that is pretty consistent.

 

And, he's very thorough which I think is good for math... I give extra work for mistakes so maybe he's gotten too worried about thoroughness? But he's averaged 96% on math assignments with no re-trys. I admit we've never done the tests (we use Saxon). I haven't felt the need since he's doing well. But Saxon users, feel free to enlighten me on tests.

[Miss Marple]

One thing I discovered about taking concurrent courses is that my son developed a sense of time as well as a sense of urgency - both of which he didn't have at home. My son took trig/precalc at our local university in 11th and had no problems keeping up with the course. At the same time he was enrolled in Spanish 1 and orchestra at the university also, and was taking U.S. History and physics in our co-op. So he had what I would call an average load. The summer after trig, he took calculus. That was the class I worried about. He had to complete the course in 8 weeks (Mon thru Thurs. classes for 2.5 hours each). Surprisingly, he liked it and got an A!

 

I think that sometimes our dawdlers do step up their efforts when moving on to concurrent courses. In our case, it was a positive experience and I don't feel he was overwhelmed. Maybe he was, but he came through it and learned some good lessons.

[threetreasurs]

Most CC's and colleges require a placement test for math. If you son passes the test within the time limit, he will probably do fine in the class.

 

It might be a good idea to find out the policy in advance. My son took Calc at a CC. A student could take the placement test twice in a 12 month period. He took it once, missed by a few points - then studied madly and passed the second time. He had no problem at all with the actual class and did indeed develop a greater sense of urgency about completing assignments in a timely fashion.:D

[Kareni]

I would suggest that you have him take the math placement test at the community college. See where he places. Then take a look at the text book which he would use. (Try to speak to an instructor of that class to see how much of the book would actually be covered. For example, my teen used the same book at the local cc for both College Algebra and Trigonometry and did not finish the book.) I think more information may make your decision-making process a little easier.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Jenn in CA]

These are great thoughts and perspectives. I appreciate your experience.

[Michelle in MO]

placement test called the COMPASS test, which places kids into the right slot in both English and math classes. Does your community college have that test, or a similar one? In our state, it's required for entrance into the cc.

 

If possible, have your child take this test or ask if the cc has a placement test at the cc. Then, I would enroll your child in that class. Also, talk to the professors/teachers at the cc. They are very helpful for information in that area! Bring along the books that you've used and explain your story to them. They will also be able to help you with proper placement.

 

As for me, I know I couldn't teach beyond pre-calculus at home, since I never took calculus. HTH!

[Brigid in NC]

A couple of suggestions and thoughts from our experience with CC math:

 

First, I imagine that there are different placement tests across the CC spectrum, but the COMPASS test is not timed. You have as much time as you need to complete it. The questions (on a computer) are scaffolded so that as the students answer questions correctly, they are given increasingly more difficult questions. This tests the upper limits of their math skills. (There is a time limit -but it is a practical consideration, not a timed-test objective).

 

Secondly, be cautious when using the placement recommendation. My ds, who is strong in math, took the COMPASS after completing Algebra 2 and the results placed him directly into calculus. That would have been a disaster. We then had to decide how far to back up in CC math classes.

 

What worked well for us was to look at the textbooks for the classes he might take (at the student bookstore). There was a lot of review in the first semester of pre-calculus (our CC has pre-calc over two semesters). But that turned out to be a GREAT thing for my ds. It helped him negotiate his way through the non-math part of CC -- new systems and expectations. Although the first semester was relatively easy, there was a lot of learning about the graphing functions of calculators -- a huge help. The second semester of pre-calculus was MUCH harder than the first. In hindsight, I know that starting there would have been extremely difficult.

 

So, what worked very well for us was to back up to a comfort zone for the first CC class. There is so much more that the kids learn in that first semester than the course material itself. We have found dual enrollment math and science classes to be a big help in "stepping up," and transitioning to college.

 

Good luck with your options.

 

~Brigid

[Michelle in MO]

when we hired a tutor from our local cc to help tutor my daughter in Algebra II, he made very similar comments. He was very good at math and had been homeschooled his entire life by his mother, who was one of the math teachers at the cc.

 

He said that he took the placement test at the cc; had he followed the test's recommendations, he also would have gone directly into either pre-calculus or calculus, but just barely. He backed it up to college algebra first and then took pre-calc. and calculus. That helped him tremendously, and he was very good at math. His plans were to become a doctor upon graduation from college.

 

Brigid's advice is very good and very practical. Another point to keep in mind, which the OP already stated, is that courses taken at the cc move faster than regular h.s. courses; at least with remedial math courses such as Algebra I, Algebra II, etc. Our cc uses the Lial's series, but instead of spreading out the work over the course of a year, it's condensed into a semester. That was one of my concerns with having my oldest do math at the cc. I think she needs to proceed more slowly.

[threetreasurs]

So, what worked very well for us was to back up to a comfort zone for the first CC class. There is so much more that the kids learn in that first semester than the course material itself. We have found dual enrollment math and science classes to be a big help in "stepping up," and transitioning to college.

 

~Brigid

 

Great advice! It turns out that when you apply to medical school, your community college grades do count in some fashion, even if you took your classes as dual enrollment.