Math & MEP questions

[mamamindy]

Okay, I am using MEP Reception for my K'er and I really like it. I've been using Singapore for my 1st grader... We're new to it & I don't mind it. But she doesn't seem to get subtraction. We're sort of stuck there as I don't want to advance until she's good with the basics. I have some Right Start math games on the way since she loves math games and I'm running out of ideas. We also use some Miquon (I'm still learning how to teach that) and c-rods with Education Unboxed. She likes to work ALL PROBLEMS (even the easy easy ones) with C-rods so that's good I guess. She's just not math-minded. She much prefers a formula to memorize and just do that. I am trying to avoid that. That is how I learned math and it did not serve me well. :glare: I'm wondering, since it's free & I like Reception, if I should try some MEP? (I don't want her to get behind. I feel like we haven't progressed for some time.) I hear it's teacher intensive... I haven't noticed that with Reception. Does it get more teacher intensive as you progress? Are people referring to the printing and getting the books together? I don't want too much more work for myself, so I am curious about that. Thank you for any suggestions you may have for me!

 

ETA: If we did try to use MEP where should we start? Many of the concepts in the year 1 books seem to be much too easy... But maybe that wouldn't hurt us right now... ??

[Sherry in OH]

Whether or not MEP is teacher intensive depends on your point of view.

You have to teach the lesson. The lessons are in the lesson plan, the practice sheets are mostly reinforcement of the lesson. The program was written for a classroom, you will need to adapt some lessons for a single child. There is a learning curve for both you and your student.

 

If you want to be able to hand the practice sheet to the child and walk away, MEP is not for your family. If you plan to sit and work with your child, it is no more intensive than any other parent taught method.

 

Where to start?

Compare the scope and sequence of your current math with MEP.

- If she can’t subtract at all, you will probably want to start somewhere in 1a. Skip or skim materials she has already mastered.

- If she has an okay grasp (understands the concept, even if not proficient) of number bonds through 10, start with 1b.

- If she can handle number bonds from 0-20 with reasonable proficiency, start with 2a.

[mamamindy]

 

If you want to be able to hand the practice sheet to the child and walk away, MEP is not for your family. If you plan to sit and work with your child, it is no more intensive than any other parent taught method.

 

This helps immensely. She does not do any math (or anything really) independently, so I am used to & expect to teach her. Guess that answers my question! :)

Where to start?

Compare the scope and sequence of your current math with MEP.

- If she can’t subtract at all, you will probably want to start somewhere in 1a. Skip or skim materials she has already mastered.

- If she has an okay grasp (understands the concept, even if not proficient) of number bonds through 10, start with 1b.

- If she can handle number bonds from 0-20 with reasonable proficiency, start with 2a.

This also really helps, thank you!! She understands what x - y means, she just hasn't memorized all her math facts through 10. She count fingers or uses manipulatives. And maybe this is typical...? It is hard to know with a first child. Especially when her younger sister is very math minded & grasps things with the first go round. Thank you so so much for your helpful advice!

[boscopup]

This also really helps, thank you!! She understands what x - y means, she just hasn't memorized all her math facts through 10. She count fingers or uses manipulatives. And maybe this is typical...? It is hard to know with a first child. Especially when her younger sister is very math minded & grasps things with the first go round. Thank you so so much for your helpful advice!

 

Yes, it's normal for a 6 year old to still be working on memorizing math facts. :)

 

Are you working on them outside of Singapore? Singapore expects you to be drilling facts in some manner. Some people use games, some use drill sheets, some use flash cards, some use online computer games. There are any number of ways to drill facts. Find one that works for her.

 

During "math time", I always have the bucket-o-C-rods next to my son (he's doing 1A and is about to turn 6). I have always said, "If you need to use the rods, you can." That way, it's up to him. He doesn't HAVE to use them for every problem, but if he needs them, they're there. I have no problem with him using them for every problem if necessary. Eventually, it will be easier to remember the fact than to pull out the rods. ;) He actually doesn't pull them out very often, as he has picked up the facts fairly quickly, but I don't *expect* that from a kid this age, kwim?

 

We've recently started working casually through Ray's Arithmetic on the side as a "drill time". I do it orally. "Mary has 3 cents and Todd has 6 cents. How many cents do they both have?" The nice thing about it is that it goes into sums with teens, so we're able to practice the material from Unit 6 (adding across 10s). We're practicing regular facts AND a new concept. Kills two birds with one stone. :D

[mamamindy]

Yes, it's normal for a 6 year old to still be working on memorizing math facts. :)

 

Are you working on them outside of Singapore?

 

We work on the mental math pages. She really likes math games (card games) for drill. I am not good at coming up with many, but I will work on that. She uses the rods for the "mental math" in the back of the book. I do the same as you, leave them beside her as an option. Thank you for your suggestions!

[edeemarie]

If you do decide to start MEP I would suggest going through year 1. You can always do it at an accelerated rate (my dd will often do 2 lessons a day or more). But what they are trying to do is really cement each number by working with it every way until the kids know it backwards, forwards, and upside down! My daughter moved from second grade math to MEP year 1 and some of the problems are still challenging to her at times, but she is really getting a great foundation in math.

[Sherry in OH]

Yes, it's normal for a 6 year old to still be working on memorizing math facts. :)

 

... :D

 

:iagree:

 

In the early levels of MEP, the student is expected to use number lines or other manipulatives to help solve problems. I tell my son not to guess. If he does not know the answer, he is to use whatever he needs to help figure it out. Usually that is either a number line or an abacus.

 

Thus far, I haven't found it necessary to do formal drills (1/3 through year 2). Topics are revisited frequently enough that over time they gel. Informally, I might ask a few fact questions in the car or during other down time.

[mamamindy]

If you do decide to start MEP I would suggest going through year 1. You can always do it at an accelerated rate (my dd will often do 2 lessons a day or more). But what they are trying to do is really cement each number by working with it every way until the kids know it backwards, forwards, and upside down! My daughter moved from second grade math to MEP year 1 and some of the problems are still challenging to her at times, but she is really getting a great foundation in math.

 

I appreciate hearing your perspective. I would rather make sure she understands the concepts than jump ahead.

 

:iagree:

 

In the early levels of MEP, the student is expected to use number lines or other manipulatives to help solve problems. I tell my son not to guess. If he does not know the answer, he is to use whatever he needs to help figure it out. Usually that is either a number line or an abacus.

 

Thus far, I haven't found it necessary to do formal drills (1/3 through year 2). Topics are revisited frequently enough that over time they gel. Informally, I might ask a few fact questions in the car or during other down time.

 

Thanks for clarifying. It's hard for me to know what's expected (when it's not explicitly written - and I'm referring to SM, not MEP in this instance) when it's your first child to teach math. Thanks again!

[Ariston]

If you do decide to start MEP I would suggest going through year 1. You can always do it at an accelerated rate (my dd will often do 2 lessons a day or more). But what they are trying to do is really cement each number by working with it every way until the kids know it backwards, forwards, and upside down! My daughter moved from second grade math to MEP year 1 and some of the problems are still challenging to her at times, but she is really getting a great foundation in math.

 

I agree...some of the problems in Year 1A are really interesting and they really build a great foundation for the latter work. If you are going to skip something, I'd think about it towards the end of 1B or beginning of 2A when there is a lot of overlap and review.

 

My son is on 2B now and I am really impressed with how good his mathematical thinking is (due to MEP), especially since he wasn't especially quick or 'mathy' when he started.

 

Elena

[Ariston]

Oh, and about it being teacher intensive, like the others have said...you have to sit with your child for 95% of the lesson...but it is very laid out and 'open and go' so yes and no. I find it very easy because there is no planning involved.

 

Re: memorizing facts, I have done some extra work but not a lot. I found it helped his mental math a lot to get his number bonds to 10 down well, and also the '5+' numbers that RightStart stressse (i.e. thinking of 6 as 5+1, 7 as 5+2, etc.) That was one weekness of Year 1....I didn't feel they stressed those two things enough.

 

He was in school this past month and found he was waaaay ahead of the other kids as far as his math facts and his understanding of concepts. My husband has also noticed recently that he is 'good at math' and I keep trying to tell him...he really isn't...its all MEP!

[mamamindy]

Oh, and about it being teacher intensive, like the others have said...you have to sit with your child for 95% of the lesson...but it is very laid out and 'open and go' so yes and no. I find it very easy because there is no planning involved.

 

Re: memorizing facts, I have done some extra work but not a lot. I found it helped his mental math a lot to get his number bonds to 10 down well, and also the '5+' numbers that RightStart stressse (i.e. thinking of 6 as 5+1, 7 as 5+2, etc.) That was one weekness of Year 1....I didn't feel they stressed those two things enough.

 

He was in school this past month and found he was waaaay ahead of the other kids as far as his math facts and his understanding of concepts. My husband has also noticed recently that he is 'good at math' and I keep trying to tell him...he really isn't...its all MEP!

 

Thanks for sharing your experiences with MEP. I have ordered the Rightstart math games (card games, I believe) for my DDs. So, these should help with the math facts, correct? I am looking forward to another way to "drill" her.

[DandelionPrincess]

We are using MEP yr 1 with my 5 year old, because he is young, we're going pretty slow, but there is A LOT of repetition, i mean A LOT. Which is good, especially at his age. The good thing about it is that the lessons are 100% online (and free), so you can skim through them and start wherever you want. If you want to get a feel of where she is, maybe print out the worksheets and have her just work through them until you get to a point where she starts to struggle, or you see something that you want to expand on, and then do those lessons until you find the right spot. The worksheets are really self explanatory, and so you don't always NEED the teacher parts of the lessons to do those.

[Rosie]

It's very normal for a 6 year old to not have all the facts memorized yet or to not be developmentally ready to "make tens" yet. You might try doing problems on a white board. For some reason kids love that!

 

It's also great that she is using C-rods for everything. She'll give it up when she's comfortable... though, I sometimes ask my kids to try a problem without the rods sometimes just to see if they can do it. Often, they find that they can when they didn't think they could previously.

 

You could also consider going "sideways" to things like measurement, weighing things, making graphs, talking about shapes, simple fractions, etc. And reading living math books, if you don't already do that, would be something good to add in to fill time while you wait for her to "get" subtraction. Just some thoughts....

[mamamindy]

We are using MEP yr 1 with my 5 year old, because he is young, we're going pretty slow, but there is A LOT of repetition, i mean A LOT. Which is good, especially at his age. The good thing about it is that the lessons are 100% online (and free), so you can skim through them and start wherever you want. If you want to get a feel of where she is, maybe print out the worksheets and have her just work through them until you get to a point where she starts to struggle, or you see something that you want to expand on, and then do those lessons until you find the right spot. The worksheets are really self explanatory, and so you don't always NEED the teacher parts of the lessons to do those.

 

Thank you! We decided to start at the beginning, since MEP is so different. Plus, she really likes me to explain anything (everything?) so it's difficult for me to gauge sometimes what she does/does not know... I may think she totally doesn't get the 10s for example, and she plays a math game (where there's no pressure) and she does exceptionally well.

 

It's very normal for a 6 year old to not have all the facts memorized yet or to not be developmentally ready to "make tens" yet. You might try doing problems on a white board. For some reason kids love that!

 

It's also great that she is using C-rods for everything. She'll give it up when she's comfortable... though, I sometimes ask my kids to try a problem without the rods sometimes just to see if they can do it. Often, they find that they can when they didn't think they could previously.

 

You could also consider going "sideways" to things like measurement, weighing things, making graphs, talking about shapes, simple fractions, etc. And reading living math books, if you don't already do that, would be something good to add in to fill time while you wait for her to "get" subtraction. Just some thoughts....

 

I am glad to know that it's acceptable and normal to not know your math facts at her age. I am looking forward to working on some things "sideways", especially the math games since she really enjoys that and seems to learn better when the pressure is off & it's just a game. ;)

[LittleIzumi]

Dd can do 80% of the actual student page alone, the rest she needs help, plus the teacher sections. Generally I sit by her, do the teacher parts that aren't in her book, and I'm there to clarify instructions and explain anything if she needs it (and I knit or poke around on the iPad with the lesson plans in the background while she works).

[Ariston]

Thank you! We decided to start at the beginning, since MEP is so different. Plus, she really likes me to explain anything (everything?) so it's difficult for me to gauge sometimes what she does/does not know... I may think she totally doesn't get the 10s for example, and she plays a math game (where there's no pressure) and she does exceptionally well.

 

Also keep in mind that being a spiral program, the topics will repeat. When my son was in year 1, I remember many times when he could get the answer correct but I could tell he didn't 'get it.' I didn't try to explain things too much, instead we just moved on and then all the sudden the light bulb would go off in a few weeks when he saw the topic come up again the 3rd or 4th time.