Help me understand WWE

[guateangel]

We're on our 3rd year of WWE and dd has been asked to write a 2 page essay on the Oto Indians (she attends a 2-day a week private, classical school). I'm embarassed to say I don't even know where to start with helping her since all we've ever done is narration, dictation, copywork and journal writing.

 

DD has dysgraphia so WWE has been wonderful and fairly painless for her; but coming up with her own writing is difficult. Her school uses IEW and encourages parent's to use but I've always thought it would be too much for dd and WWE is working (so I thought) so why change.

 

Have I messed up by using WWE as our only writing program?

 

Do I read her a book/passage on Oto Indians and have her narrate it back?

 

Help me understand how WWE prepares a child for writing. I don't want to add an additional writing program but if we need to...

 

ETA: Just re-read instructions. 1 page report, no more than 2 pages. Phew!

Edited September 29, 2012 by guateangel

[NittanyJen]

We're on our 3rd year of WWE and dd has been asked to write a 2 page essay on the Oto Indians (she attends a 2-day a week private, classical school). I'm embarassed to say I don't even know where to start with helping her since all we've ever done is narration, dictation, copywork and journal writing.

 

DD has dysgraphia so WWE has been wonderful and fairly painless for her; but coming up with her own writing is difficult. Her school uses IEW and encourages parent's to use but I've always thought it would be too much for dd and WWE is working (so I thought) so why change.

 

Have I messed up by using WWE as our only writing program?

 

Do I read her a book/passage on Oto Indians and have her narrate it back?

 

Help me understand how WWE prepares a child for writing. I don't want to add an additional writing program but if we need to...

 

I used WWE 1--3 for my dysgraphic son (along with Handwriting Without Tears) who was born in mid-'03, and then switched to IEW just about two months ago. I think WWE was fantastic for developing writing skills.

 

I think a two-page essay is a ridiculous assignment for that age. Maybe if your triple-space it and use a 20-point font??? LOL IEW SWI-A would start out for that age by having kids do a keyword outline and then rewrite a single 8 or 9 sentence paragraph using their keyword outline; not by having them write a 2-page essay of their own original research.

 

(I do believe IEW SWI-A is a natural extension of WWE if you and your daughter ever do wish to make a switch. I have my son type his final drafts for part of his typing practice, too, which relieves the pressure from his dysgraphia).

 

So . . .

 

*No, you have not messed up your daughter by using WWE. It is a perfect program for early writing, particularly for kiddo with dysgraphia, and it is not age-inappropriate, assuming your signature is correct.

 

*WWE progressively help a child learn to organize her thoughts in her head and keep them there while carrying out the physical task of writing. Those of us with dysgraphic kids know that that is a particularly useful skill.

 

*WWE helps kids identify the central ideas in the writing of others, and put them into words. Doing this again and again helps them to practice the art of writing itself, which is that of organizing some type of narrative of ideas (of any type-- informative, fictional, instructive, etc) into a cohesive, intentional pattern, and conveying them to others. The narrations help a child to practice this skill. Using writing excerpts from professional authors takes the burden of thinking up something original to write so that the child can focus on organizing the thoughts and choosing words properly, important writing skills.

 

*WWE exposes kids, through dictation, copywork, reading, and narration, to high quality writing examples. These examples will seep into the child's consciousness, because they are not simply skimmed over, but actively copied and studied intentionally.

 

*What are the expectations for this assignment? Does she need to use multiple sources? Make an outline? At nine years old, for a 2-page paper, I would tend to help her quite a bit. I would come up with a list of questions to answer, and list each question on one page of notebook paper, then try to find two or three books (one can be an encyclopedia or something, or a book and a couple of websites) and use them to answer the questions you thought up-- ie, what do they eat, what are their houses like, what do they wear, etc. Fill in answers to the questions from the different sources on the pages as you find them. Then she can tackle each paragraph one notebook page at a time as a topic. Hopefully that won't be too overwhelming? I am trying to think what my 9YO could handle.

 

Hope that helps.

[NittanyJen]

Just to clarify . . . I do mean to have your daughter involved in thinking up questions, and finding answers to the questions in the books and things. But as a parent of a 9YO, i would be heavily involved in guiding to make sure the questions were realistic, helping her set up her notebook pages, helping her find the sources, and get the notes down on the paper as she reads, etc, particularly with a dysgraphic child.

 

I did not mean to sound as if you should do all of the research FOR her :D

[guateangel]

Thanks, Jen!

 

 

Everything you wrote was exactly what I needed to hear. I feel WWE is working for us but when I see other kids whipping up a report with 'ease', I question everything. I know I shouldn't compare!!! I'm working on that.

 

The rest of her class (11 students) use IEW, so I hear a lot about 'key-word outlining', so then I worry that we are missing something.

 

 

We worked on it a little today by answering the provided questions but I started doubting what we were doing since we have no outline. I ended up writing a lot of it, by using her narration and then will have her copy my draft. Is this ok?

 

 

I agree 2 pages is a bit much but we have 3 weeks to complete it.

[NittanyJen]

Thanks, Jen!

 

 

Everything you wrote was exactly what I needed to hear. I feel WWE is working for us but when I see other kids whipping up a report with 'ease', I question everything. I know I shouldn't compare!!! I'm working on that.

 

The rest of her class (11 students) use IEW, so I hear a lot about 'key-word outlining', so then I worry that we are missing something.

 

 

We worked on it a little today by answering the provided questions but I started doubting what we were doing since we have no outline. I ended up writing a lot of it, by using her narration and then will have her copy my draft. Is this ok?

 

 

I agree 2 pages is a bit much but we have 3 weeks to complete it.

 

By writing a lot of it, do you mean filling in words for her, or physically doing the writing (many of us call this "scribing") to write down her words?

 

If you're filling in the writing for her, I'd back off a bit; if you're just scribing for her, I would think that is fine; that is a normal accommodation for a dysgraphic child. I would write down what she says, and then prompt/discuss with her changes and additions that you need to guide her toward (while still leaving it as "her" paper and not your paper! That part can be hard sometimes!) Be sure to let her come up with the ideas, even if you have to help nudge her towards them. ("Here you said 'the oysters' and later you said 'it,' . . . how many do you mean? Many or just one? So should you say 'the oyster' or something other than 'it'?" Those things need to match.")

 

As long as the writing is essentially HER words, you doing the physical writing of the draft and then her copying it for the final edition after the edits is just fine. I would tend to finish early enough so that she is only copying a few sentences per day.

[kemilie]

I think as long as you're comfortable with the classical idea that we're just training their minds when they're young, and the expression and ability to reason is more for higher grade levels, than WWE is perfect. I'm only on level 1 (with my 6 year old) but I agree sometimes I wonder if it's really "preparing" him to write. But at the same time I see that he is NOT comfortable with coming up with his own stories et. So this approach works for him, and hopefully we're training his brain so when the time comes all of the tools will be there, in place, ready for him to use to express himself. :)

[boscopup]

WWE takes a little longer to get to essays than some other programs, so if you're using it, you just have to accept that your child isn't going to be doing 5-paragraph essays in 3rd grade, ya know? But in your situation, with the school using IEW, that is a bit tricky.

 

FWIW, I used WWE1 and 2, and we were able to copy about 6 sentences in a sitting, but original writing of any kind was NOT happening. I switched to IEW this year (using SWI-A), and my son can now happily write a paragraph of 7-8 sentences. It's amazing how much the keyword outlines have helped him to organize his thoughts and give him a bridge from the mind to the paper. KWOs were pretty easy to learn as well. IEW is a great program for reluctant writers (I don't know about dysgraphia, though I expect you'd need to make accommodations for that no matter what you use?).

 

For the current assignment, I think I'd have her do a really long narration. :D In IEW, for a report from one source, they would pick out 3-4 keywords for each idea they want to present from that source. They'd pick 5-7 ideas to present. If they're doing multi-source, it's done similarly, but then you fuse the outline. I haven't learned how to do that yet, so I can't explain it. :tongue_smilie: My son just got out of the rewriting a paragraph line-by-line units, and now he's rewriting a story using 3 paragraphs: 1) characters/situation, 2) problem/conflict, 3) climax/conclusion/moral.

 

For this assignment, is it one page written or typed? That makes a difference. My son's one-paragraph rewrites were often one written page or maybe even just a tad over a page. Those were 7-8 sentences. So a 7-8 sentence oral narration could be handwritten to fit a page. ;) If it's typed, that's going to be a much longer paper. In that case, maybe find 3 topics within the main topic to narrate about, giving you 3 separate paragraphs? That would probably be a typed page, I'm guessing (not having done typed papers in a LONG time... we're not there yet!).

[guateangel]

By writing a lot of it, do you mean filling in words for her, or physically doing the writing (many of us call this "scribing") to write down her words?

 

If you're filling in the writing for her, I'd back off a bit; if you're just scribing for her, I would think that is fine; that is a normal accommodation for a dysgraphic child. I would write down what she says, and then prompt/discuss with her changes and additions that you need to guide her toward (while still leaving it as "her" paper and not your paper! That part can be hard sometimes!) Be sure to let her come up with the ideas, even if you have to help nudge her towards them. ("Here you said 'the oysters' and later you said 'it,' . . . how many do you mean? Many or just one? So should you say 'the oyster' or something other than 'it'?" Those things need to match.")

 

As long as the writing is essentially HER words, you doing the physical writing of the draft and then her copying it for the final edition after the edits is just fine. I would tend to finish early enough so that she is only copying a few sentences per day.

 

She narrated and I scribed for her. This is where we struggle as she cannot narrate and put it on paper herself. So I write as she narrates, then I'll have her copy her narration from my writing. Hope that makes sense. Yes, there's LOTS of nudging. It's a slow process due to her SLOW writing, but we're getting there. Thanks for your help!

[guateangel]

I think as long as you're comfortable with the classical idea that we're just training their minds when they're young, and the expression and ability to reason is more for higher grade levels, than WWE is perfect.

 

I'm trying really hard to be comfortable with WWE, this report just through me off and made me question everything. Writing is relaxed at the school (in lower grades) so I need to relax and trust SWB's writing technique. Thanks for your comment. :)

 

WWE takes a little longer to get to essays than some other programs, so if you're using it, you just have to accept that your child isn't going to be doing 5-paragraph essays in 3rd grade, ya know? But in your situation, with the school using IEW, that is a bit tricky.

 

FWIW, I used WWE1 and 2, and we were able to copy about 6 sentences in a sitting, but original writing of any kind was NOT happening. I switched to IEW this year (using SWI-A), and my son can now happily write a paragraph of 7-8 sentences. It's amazing how much the keyword outlines have helped him to organize his thoughts and give him a bridge from the mind to the paper. KWOs were pretty easy to learn as well. IEW is a great program for reluctant writers (I don't know about dysgraphia, though I expect you'd need to make accommodations for that no matter what you use?).

 

For the current assignment, I think I'd have her do a really long narration. :D In IEW, for a report from one source, they would pick out 3-4 keywords for each idea they want to present from that source. They'd pick 5-7 ideas to present. If they're doing multi-source, it's done similarly, but then you fuse the outline. I haven't learned how to do that yet, so I can't explain it. :tongue_smilie: My son just got out of the rewriting a paragraph line-by-line units, and now he's rewriting a story using 3 paragraphs: 1) characters/situation, 2) problem/conflict, 3) climax/conclusion/moral.

 

For this assignment, is it one page written or typed? That makes a difference. My son's one-paragraph rewrites were often one written page or maybe even just a tad over a page. Those were 7-8 sentences. So a 7-8 sentence oral narration could be handwritten to fit a page. ;) If it's typed, that's going to be a much longer paper. In that case, maybe find 3 topics within the main topic to narrate about, giving you 3 separate paragraphs? That would probably be a typed page, I'm guessing (not having done typed papers in a LONG time... we're not there yet!).

 

I've seen 3rd graders from the local PS and it's impressive to 'hear' about them writing 3-5 paragraph reports, but when I actually 'saw' these writings, it was beyond pitiful!!! Definitely not what I want my dd's writings to ever look like. I just have to trust this process. :)

 

I might need to bite the bullet and purchase SWI-A since that is what her school is using/teaching. Is it doable along side WWE or did you quit WWE once you started IEW? WWE is so simple and doesn't take much time, I'm thinking we could do both and slow down if needed. I really do not want to stop WWE.

 

They want the report written.

 

Thanks for your comments. :)

[lulubelle]

SWB says in her talks that you just can't compare her method to a typical school. She even says don't worry that in 3rd grade the brick and mortar schools will be churning out 3 page papers and by high school they will be writing 18 page papers. Her method is very counter cultural. But, she does have a method. I'm not sure the main stream schools do.

[NittanyJen]

If I was doing formal writing every week, I would be alternating IEW and WWE on alternate weeks; I have no problem doing WWE "double speed" -- do a dictation/narration in one day instead of over two days.

 

I personally set aside WWE formally for now in favor of IEW, because we are rolling with our alternating science math focus week/history language focus week schedule.

 

However, I see nothing wrong, in a more traditional schedule, of alternating the two programs, as they each have different strengths and address different needs. Besides, the WWE lessons give great reading ideas :).

 

Back to your original question . . . I think your approach is great. I'd run with it.