Logic WWYD?

[rwjx2khsmj]

My dd13 has been struggling through Traditional Logic 1. At her request, she's been doing logic independently and then I check the work. She completed the first 12 lessons without too much difficulty. Most of the answers to the questions could be found directly in the text. We discussed any she couldn't find or got wrong. Chapter 13 & 14 were a disaster. Those lessons required that she be able to apply the lessons in the previous chapters. She claims that she didn't understand any of what she read in the text. Unfortunately she didn't let me know she was struggling because she really just wanted to get through.

 

Now what?

 

Earlier this year dd completed and enjoyed Thinking Toolbox and Fallacy Detective. Is that enough of a foundation in logic to move forward or do we go back and do Traditional Logic together? Do we redo now or wait until the fall? Do I move the plans I had for her back and try another logic program in the fall? Do we call it good enough and move forward without mastery of this book?

[rwjx2khsmj]

Help! Pretty please.

[Hedgehog]

My oldest is younger than your dd so take this with a pinch of salt, but I think I'd be tempted to try something like the Art of Argument instead. (Classical Academic Press)

[freerange]

I would do those last 2 chapters with her over the summer. Not only will it help her tolearn not to try to cut corners like that, it will also help you figure out what the problem was in case it has an impact on next year's material.

[rwjx2khsmj]

My oldest is younger than your dd so take this with a pinch of salt, but I think I'd be tempted to try something like the Art of Argument instead. (Classical Academic Press)

 

That's what I had planned for next year anyway. Thanks!

 

I would do those last 2 chapters with her over the summer. Not only will it help her tolearn not to try to cut corners like that, it will also help you figure out what the problem was in case it has an impact on next year's material.

 

I think the problem right now is being ready for a break. I think we probably will go back over the material but I'm thinking that removing it from the book might get better results. Maybe in August I can present the concepts without the text and we can work through the problems together. I'll call it a refresher. What do you think?

[elegantlion]

Traditional Logic is formal logic, so the equivalent from CAP would Discovery of Deduction. Art of Argument is informal logic, so it might be redundant if she's already completed TT and FD.

 

We used Discovery of Deduction this year, which I liked much better than what I saw in TL. Regardless of what you use I believe formal logic is a subject that requires more than doing it on your own. Some of the formal logic concepts get tricky. In Dod the lessons build upon one another and if you miss the info in one lesson it's easy to get behind. I think the student needs a sounding board and someone to ensure they understand the concepts, and not just how to fill in the blanks.

 

If you truly need a break and don't want to continue and have time in your schedule for fall, I'd suggest that. She might be better able to grasp the concepts after a few months away. If you'd prefer to finish over the summer I would review the previous chapters with her to see where her understanding is lacking.

[rwjx2khsmj]

Traditional Logic is formal logic, so the equivalent from CAP would Discovery of Deduction. Art of Argument is informal logic, so it might be redundant if she's already completed TT and FD.

 

We used Discovery of Deduction this year, which I liked much better than what I saw in TL. Regardless of what you use I believe formal logic is a subject that requires more than doing it on your own. Some of the formal logic concepts get tricky. In Dod the lessons build upon one another and if you miss the info in one lesson it's easy to get behind. I think the student needs a sounding board and someone to ensure they understand the concepts, and not just how to fill in the blanks.

 

If you truly need a break and don't want to continue and have time in your schedule for fall, I'd suggest that. She might be better able to grasp the concepts after a few months away. If you'd prefer to finish over the summer I would review the previous chapters with her to see where her understanding is lacking.

 

I was moving back to informal logic because dd enjoyed that so much more than the formal logic. I'm sure that the style of presentation had a lot to do with her preference. I'll have to think about whether it would be better to go deeper in informal logic or get a firm grip on formal logic. We may be able to do both and spread it out a bit more.

 

As you said, the formal logic needed more of my attention. Going over the chapters with her wasn't enough. She was always able to give the correct answer so I didn't realize her lack of understanding until it came to applying the concepts.

 

I'll take a look at Discovery of Deduction and see if that would be a better fit.

 

Thanks!

[creekmom]

The local "rigorous" homeschool co-op used to require 7th/8th graders to take Traditional Logic, but my friend told me the other day that they decided to move that class to high school bc so many of the students were having difficulty (a lot of difficulty) with the class. If your dd didn't understand the concepts, she might grasp it better in a year or so. My vote is to wait at least 6 months for her to mature a little.

[rwjx2khsmj]

The local "rigorous" homeschool co-op used to require 7th/8th graders to take Traditional Logic, but my friend told me the other day that they decided to move that class to high school bc so many of the students were having difficulty (a lot of difficulty) with the class. If your dd didn't understand the concepts, she might grasp it better in a year or so. My vote is to wait at least 6 months for her to mature a little.

 

Thanks for the information. I'm going to give it another shot in August and make a decision from there.