Penn State : What do they require from homeschoolers? Ds. is considering Pre-Med. He

[Nissi]

has taken SAT and will have SAT subject tests in Chemistry, Math Level 2 and Literature. Does he need Biology and Physics? Please respond if you have any experience with this. Thanks for any input.

[creekland]

Neither Penn State, Pitt, nor Temple (our three state related schools) require any SAT 2 tests. They require ACT or SAT scores and, according to a letter we received last year, a transcript from a third party.

 

Look up my college threads on Pittsburgh. Penn State is similar. They accepted my guy without a third party transcript, but he's not going there (prefers the University of Rochester), so we'll never know if they would have waived the third party deal or not. My guess is that they would have due to my guy having high stats, but it was only a guess.

 

These schools do give credit for AP and community college classes, but beware NOT to accept any credit for Pre-req courses unless you are certain med schools you might apply to accept them. Even then, the vast majority of advisers will tell you not to accept them as they'll be a nick against your med school app. Other AP credits and cc credits are fine.

 

Note that Pitt is actually considered the better Pre-med school by almost everyone I've talked with. Their reason is due to all the hospitals right on or next to Pitt's campus. Penn St is considered the better Pre-Vet school due to having the large animals. However, you can get to med school from either, so if you like Penn St for other reasons (location, type, etc) there's no reason not to go there.

[Maryalice]

I went through and analyzed the PSU homeschool requirements. I have not yet sent the letter explaining their illogical policies. I can send you a draft so that you are aware of the issues.

[creekland]

I went through and analyzed the PSU homeschool requirements. I have not yet sent the letter explaining their illogical policies. I can send you a draft so that you are aware of the issues.

 

Is this the same issue I know about, or something else? If they're adding more, I'd like to keep updated just so I can share locally if others are interested.

[Nissi]

Creekland, thanks. Mary Alice, do send me the draft. Thanks again.

[Maryalice]

Is this the same issue I know about, or something else? If they're adding more, I'd like to keep updated just so I can share locally if others are interested.

 

Same issue. The state university system has been misinformed about homeschooling by a company that sells diplomas.

 

(the rest is a very long look at the details)

 

Here are some points of the PSU policy:

1. “Basic admission requirements…Proof of graduation: high school diploma, diploma from an organization governed by a State Board of Education, or Graduate Equivalency Diploma (GED)*â€

a. “Diploma from an organization governed by a State Board of Education†– PA is the ONLY state to have such an option (column (13) of State Law comparison chart), therefore this is not an option for students from 49 other states. It should be noted that these Pennsylvania homeschool diplomas are not even accredited.

b. GED – The last option in your requirement is for a homeschooler to take the GED. This is a twofold problem. First, it is discriminatory to homeschoolers. Federal law allows homeschoolers to self-certify their diplomas for purposes of financial aid. (See attached notes from the Higher Education Act.) Even the US Military has recognized homeschool diplomas, requiring equality with other secondary school graduates. (HR 1540 SEC. 532. Policy on Military Recruitment and Enlistment of Graduates of Secondary Schools)

 

Secondly, the GED presents a legal dilemma for PA homeschoolers. If a student complies with the PA Home Education law, they fulfill the requirements specified in the law for graduation and would, therefore, be a graduate. Students may NOT take the PA GED if they are a high school graduate. Therefore home educated students, who have completed the legal graduation requirements, would have to falsify information to take the GED. I have not checked all 50 states, but all of those that I have checked require a student to be “withdrawn from school†to take the GED. Homeschoolers are not withdrawn from school. A GED was not intended as a proof of graduation for homeschoolers.

c. Most home educated students, across the state and across the country, receive a parent issued transcript and diploma. This is not acceptable according to the PSU admissions department.

 

2. The policy further states: “Since some students in homeschool programs do not follow a traditional high school curriculum, we ask that all homeschool students provide us with complete and detailed documentation of their high school coursework and evaluations of progress from an approved homeschool evaluator or supervisor.â€

 

a. Given the statement on the top of the website that homeschoolers are “subject to the same standards as other applicants,†I don’t see how “complete and detailed documentation of their highschool coursework†is the same as what is required from others. This seems discriminatory since the University does not require this from any other educational option, unaccredited private schools, out-of-state schools, etc. If you question the content of homeschool courses, shouldn’t you be questioning the content of every student’s courses? Will they be scrutinized, validated, or even evaluated by someone? What person will have the breadth of knowledge to know what course content is appropriate for microeconomics and botany and art appreciation, for example? I fail to see the purpose of ONLY SOME students furnishing detailed documentation, which in all likeliness is not even evaluated; it is simply an extra administrative requirement forced upon homeschoolers.

b. evaluations of progress: Only Pennsylvania Home Educated students have to provide documentation to a homeschool evaluator (column (9) of State Law comparison chart). So, again, this precludes home educated students from other states from fulfilling this requirement.

c. from an approved homeschool evaluator or supervisor: Pennsylvania home education evaluators are not approved by anyone. They fulfill the qualifications in the law. With respect to the PA Home Education law, the evaluator only certifies that appropriate education has occurred. Furthermore, in the PA Home Education law, the term, “supervisor,†is defined as the parent or legal guardian. Is it really necessary to get an evaluation from the parents or just another administrative “hoop†for the parent?

d. An evaluator does not supervise any aspect of a home educator’s program.

 

3. “*…Students in homeschool programs must submit proof of high school graduation in the form of a diploma from a state-recognized homeschool agency, a letter from a local school district verifying graduation, or a copy of the GED.â€

a. “Diploma from a state-recognized homeschool agency†– Again, only Pennsylvania has “homeschool diplomasâ€; no other state has them. The PA Department of Education authorizes companies and associations to grant high school diplomas. The diplomas are “state-recognized†for purposes of applying for state grants, etc. with PHEAA. Only one of the organizations fraudulently uses the word “agency†in their name, even though they are not a government agency, as usually associated with the word “agencyâ€: it is a business.

a. “Letter from a local school district verifying graduation†– Only 2 states, NY, and PA—impose high school course requirements on homeschoolers (column (10) of State Law comparison chart). Pennsylvania local school districts have no way of “verifying graduation.†According to the law, local superintendents must verify appropriate education up until the age of 17, but they do not verify graduation, which would entail evaluating credits, action far beyond the law. As you can see from the attachment, in many states, the homeschool student has NO contact with the local school district.

b. IF the above statement is just worded improperly and the option is to have a superintendent sign a “Homeschool Certification Form†, such as the form used by PHEAA, this presents a different problem. The law does not require the local superintendent to sign a Homeschool Certification form, and some refuse. Those superintendents who cooperate have difficulty doing so. Compulsory attendance is until 17 years old and the typical age of graduation and applying for college is 18 years or older. Following the timeline, the student would have completed high school without submitting documentation to the superintendent for 1-2 years and the superintendent would be unable to issue a certification.

b. “copy of GED†– Again, the same problem as above. A Pennsylvania home educated student can not honestly take the GED and be a high school graduate.

 

Analyzing the PSU policy for homeschoolers, homeschoolers have one choice in order to apply to PSU, live in PA and buy a diploma. All other homeschooled students need not apply.

[creekland]

Analyzing the PSU policy for homeschoolers, homeschoolers have one choice in order to apply to PSU, live in PA and buy a diploma. All other homeschooled students need not apply.

 

By written policy, this is the case, but as I mentioned with Pitt, my guy was accepted there (stats well above their mid-range). He was also offered merit aid (need high stats for that at Pitt). HOWEVER, in their letter they say that admitted students can attend fall classes, BUT, not spring classes if the diploma issue isn't resolved. The dean can offer alternatives, but nothing specific was written (GPA, etc).

 

My guy likes the University of Rochester better and got equal funding from them (well, UR offered more, but the actual cost is the same - therefore, equal) so we're not pursuing Pitt to see where it would lead. I would NOT let my guy go there for fall classes without WRITTEN confirmation that the diploma thingy is not an issue and I'M NOT paying for a diploma nor having middle son get a GED. No other college we've had contact with has even hinted at needing either.

 

I've no problem with parents/students pursuing Penn St, Pitt, or Temple. I'm not trying to bash those schools. I just think people should be informed with what is going on ahead of time. I THINK my guy would have been ok with Pitt (remember, he had high stats), but I don't KNOW what they would have done, nor am I certain what they'd do with average stat kids.

[snowbeltmom]

Just curious if you ever received a reply to the letter you sent to Pitt admissions?

 

Hopefully, the admissions staff at these PA schools are just uninformed and will modify their policies for homeschoolers once they receive your letter.

[Maryalice]

Just curious if you ever received a reply to the letter you sent to Pitt admissions?

 

Hopefully, the admissions staff at these PA schools are just uninformed and will modify their policies for homeschoolers once they receive your letter.

 

The responses that I get are NEVER "oh, my, we weren't aware." Most don't respond. Pitt responded with a 2 page anecdotal story of a homeschooler without any documentation...she never refuted any of my facts. The tone of the letter was one big whine... PA has difficulties because of the unaccredited diploma programs and the misinformation given to them by the companies that sell them, mainly the company with the words "accreditation" and "agency" in their name, even though they are neither "accredited" nor an "agency".

[snowbeltmom]

The responses that I get are NEVER "oh, my, we weren't aware." Most don't respond. Pitt responded with a 2 page anecdotal story of a homeschooler without any documentation...she never refuted any of my facts. The tone of the letter was one big whine... PA has difficulties because of the unaccredited diploma programs and the misinformation given to them by the companies that sell them, mainly the company with the words "accreditation" and "agency" in their name, even though they are neither "accredited" nor an "agency".

That's too bad. Obviously, a homeschooler without any documentation would have a hard time being admitted to any school. That anecdotal story is irrelevant to the issues you stated in your letter.

If I were in PA and wanted my kids to take advantage of the public colleges that I had been supporting for decades with my tax dollars, I would be investigating threatening these colleges with legal action.

[creekland]

That's too bad. Obviously, a homeschooler without any documentation would have a hard time being admitted to any school. That anecdotal story is irrelevant to the issues you stated in your letter.

If I were in PA and wanted my kids to take advantage of the public colleges that I had been supporting for decades with my tax dollars, I would be investigating threatening these colleges with legal action.

 

 

These are not our state schools. These are state related schools (combo of private and state - mostly private) and the rumor out there has them going totally private in the relatively near future due to budget cuts. There's nothing definite about the latter, but the state is significantly cutting money. Our state schools include IUP, Shippensburg, Mansfield, and assorted others around the state. I've no idea if they require the same stuff or not. Maybe they do?

[snowbeltmom]

These are not our state schools.

Wow, I obviously had no idea. I thought with a name like Penn STATE, it was a state school:D

[creekland]

Wow, I obviously had no idea. I thought with a name like Penn STATE, it was a state school:D

 

Most people make that assumption and most of the time we just let it go (even at college confidential). ;) But the tuition for the three is vastly greater than our true state schools - so is the prestige involved. With the rumor going around that the three might go totally private many are wondering if they'll keep their in-state tuition breaks. The tuition breaks come from the state funding.