Meriwether Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I thought I'd have Dd8 work through level 4 for a change of pace. We are having trouble getting started. For example, #10 says: P is a number. After multiplying it by 7 and adding 4 to the answer, the result is the 13th multiple of 3. What is P? Dd took 13 x 3 subtracted 4 and divided by 7. I told her that I didn't think that was how it was supposed to be done. I drew out a bar of thirteen threes, marked off four, and divided up the rest of the threes into 5 groups of seven. Dd thought I was nuts. Math isn't her strong point, and I wanted to give her a chance to look at numbers differently. She wasn't impressed today. So my questions: A) Did I even set up the problem the way it was supposed to be done? B) Should I let Dd do the problems however she pleases? C) Should I skip the ones she can do in her head or easily do the math to figure out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chepyl Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I would have done it the way your DD did, my son is only in level 2, but I am sure he would do it that way too. He does not like the bar diagrams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meriwether Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 I would have done it the way your DD did, my son is only in level 2, but I am sure he would do it that way too. He does not like the bar diagrams. Yeah, I would do it that way, too. I just wanted to know if it was worth doing the CWP if we didn't do the diagrams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I thought I'd have Dd8 work through level 4 for a change of pace. We are having trouble getting started. For example, #10 says: P is a number. After multiplying it by 7 and adding 4 to the answer, the result is the 13th multiple of 3. What is P? Dd took 13 x 3 subtracted 4 and divided by 7. I told her that I didn't think that was how it was supposed to be done. I drew out a bar of thirteen threes, marked off four, and divided up the rest of the threes into 5 groups of seven. Dd thought I was nuts. Math isn't her strong point, and I wanted to give her a chance to look at numbers differently. She wasn't impressed today. So my questions: A) Did I even set up the problem the way it was supposed to be done? B) Should I let Dd do the problems however she pleases? C) Should I skip the ones she can do in her head or easily do the math to figure out? For this particular problem, her method is better than using bar diagrams. Bar diagrams aren't a universal solution for any and all math problems. Some problems are more easily solved with bar diagrams (especially before algebra is introduced), while others are more easily solved by other methods. The key is deciding what the most efficient method for the particular problem you are working on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petepie2 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I would have done it like your DD. It's intuitive and quick, and apparently she thought so, too. I'm confused by your description of the bar diagram. You said your bar diagram consisted of 13 threes and then you marked off four. Four what? Four threes? That doesn't make sense. And then how can you "divide the rest of the threes into 5 groups of 7?" That would be a total of 35, which isn't a multiple of 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meriwether Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 I would have done it like your DD. It's intuitive and quick, and apparently she thought so, too. I'm confused by your description of the bar diagram. You said your bar diagram consisted of 13 threes and then you marked off four. Four what? Four threes? That doesn't make sense. And then how can you "divide the rest of the threes into 5 groups of 7?" That would be a total of 35, which isn't a multiply of 3. Sorry, I'm on my kindle and trying to limit typing. I marked off 4 ones (a group of three and one third of a second group). That left 35 ones which I put into five groups of seven. It is more complicated than just doing the math which is why I asked if that is how it was supposed to be done. I thought all word proboems were supposed to be done with diagrams, but I apparently I was wrong about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petepie2 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Sorry, I'm on my kindle and trying to limit typing. I marked off 4 ones (a group of three and one third of a second group). That left 35 ones which I put into five groups of seven. It is more complicated than just doing the math which is why I asked if that is how it was supposed to be done. I thought all word proboems were supposed to be done with diagrams, but I apparently I was wrong about that. Then both of you did the problem the exact same way. You just used visuals, and she didn't. I'm only in CWP2, but I have read that the bar diagrams are not useful in all cases (as others have mentioned). So far I've found them useful for problems that I would otherwise solve via algebra, and in those cases, it's pretty cool how the bar diagrams can be manipulated to find the answer another way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meriwether Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 Okay, I feel like I'm talking in circles.:001_smile: I know we solved them the same way, but I thought we were supposed to do the diagram whether the answer was easy or not. I thought the whole big deal difference was the bar diagrams. Dd is not an out of the box thinker so I thought a program that used visuals would round out her understanding. If the bar diagrams are not necessary I'm left debating the worth of having her do them at all. She is going to do HOE soon, so even the algebra questions would probably be easier for her to just solve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Okay, I feel like I'm talking in circles.:001_smile: I know we solved them the same way, but I thought we were supposed to do the diagram whether the answer was easy or not. I thought the whole big deal difference was the bar diagrams. It is, but this problem doesn't require use of the bars to "see" a solution because it doesn't require algebra to solve. Your daughter showed a good understanding of operations and "undoing" operations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 You can use whatever method you want. Some of the problems will be very EASY with the bar diagrams, so I do think it's a good idea to learn them if you're going to use the program. They're easy to pick up if you just go through the examples before each set of problems. This particular problem, I don't think the bar diagrams were necessary. My son would have done exactly what your DD did, and he knows how to use bar diagrams in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbpaulie Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I'd say that the bar diagrams are to help you see and uderstand a concept and to step you towards algebra concepts. Your daughter started doing some algebraic concepts on her own. She got it and should be able to run w/ it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meriwether Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Thanks to all who replied. Petepie2, I appreciate your responses and wanted to say I was frustrated at my lack of clear communicating not your responses. Now that I know bar diagrams aren't supposed to be used for every word problem, I'll just let her work through the book. O/T Nmoira, I looked at a list of things your daughter used. The patty paper geometry looks interesting. Did you need the student book? Edited March 8, 2012 by Meriwether Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petepie2 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 The good news is that she understands what she's doing! I usually have to look ahead at the word problems in level 2 to make sure I can do them before DD tries them. Sometimes it takes me a while to figure out what I'm supposed to be doing with the bar diagrams. Heaven help me when I get to level 4! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 O/T Nmoira, I looked at a list of things your daughter used. The patty paper geometry looks interesting. Did you need the student book?There's nothing in the student workbook not in the Teacher's book. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meriwether Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 There's nothing in the student workbook not in the Teacher's book. :) Thanks. I hadn't spent time looking around, but the student book was 40.00+ on Amazon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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